Is society trying to imply something (that transsexual women are really gay men and transsexual men  are really lesbian women?) Or why else would trans people be "part" of the gay community?

Why can't we have our own community?

Because we're not all gay men or lesbian women.

As for me, I'm a girl with a horrible birth defect and it feels like few people have any sympathy for me or those who are affected like me.

We have to stick together as a COMMUNITY because friendship is a very strong bond. ♥

Oh, and by the way I know plenty of transsexuals are glb. But plenty of cissexuals are glb too.

There was a big debate here on this very subject, last year. It got rather heated at times.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,99819.0.html

Hopefully this time it won't be.

Quote from: Sephirah on May 04, 2012, 06:32:33 PM
There was a big debate here on this very subject, last year. It got rather heated at times.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,99819.0.html

Hopefully this time it won't be.

Went there, it would be like so many threads as there are a lot of subjects in the forum that haven't already been discussed and beaten to death already. Nice to be able to review what's out there though, thanks for posting it!

I get we're you're coming from, but the way I see it, the thread that links us all is none of us are behaving in quite the way society expects us to do in relation to matters of gender.

That's why, as I see it.

Yes, that's true, or you could say, its pretty much dumbed down, so its easier for non Trans people to try and understand. "I am a girl" - oh, 'so your gay then' ? If people consider you to be, or look like a man in the first place, and know you to be a trans woman. I guess yes its the same for FTM's too who are probably going to be considered as lesbian tom boys.

We all know, its not a simple as that, but some people really don't get it, and never will. Let them have their little labels, and put everyone in their place, because they feel its their right to do so !

You know who you are, and your friends will accept you too for who you are, what everyone else thinks - not that important. They got enough stuff of their own to deal with in life, they just can't cope or handle what you or I might, or might not be.

Our biggest commonality is that we are not conforming to some sort of "expected" behavior associated with our sex. If there was no expectation of someones birth sex, gays, lesbians, and bisexuals would never be considered "abnormal", and neither would we.

There is power in numbers.

Also realize that at some point almost every trans-person is considered homosexual. 

If they are really straight then often they are viewed (and may even have viewed themselves) as homosexual BEFORE transition.
If they are really homosexual then they are viewed as homosexual AFTER transition.

There is a degree of overlap between the groups because of this.

I thought about this in the past, and really I dont mind it. Firstly I personally love the LGBT community, everyone is so loving and most of them are mature. Not to mention LGB people are on our side, so we shouldn't be afraid about that. The real issue is just raising awareness about transgender people, which has been happening increasingly.

Well we are all social minorities, and as such we tend to experience similar situations. There are lots of people out there in addition to simply LGBT, including intersex, androgynes, questioning...and even allies.

Some of the communities overlap, and this pool resources..its the best way to go!

The root of the prejudices seem to be very similar. People have rigid notions of gender expression and behavior and they get very uncomfortable when anyone is not very clearly labeled and categorized. I think they belong together.

Quote from: ~~BebeLyss~~ on May 04, 2012, 06:24:58 PM


Why can't we have our own community?

Oh, and by the way I know plenty of transsexuals are glb. But plenty of cissexuals are glb too.

Because the the LBG is still fighting for their rights in many locations.  Acceptance for them is increasing slowly but surely.  I personally feel that the trans community doesn't get much exposure and when we do it's usually bad.  I say the T is in a way "riding the coat tails" of the LBG and there's no shame in that.  The more allies we get the better.

I don't mind, and I find it so odd that some people on here wanna separate so bad from LGB. It doesn't help our cause at all, it forces us to stand alone. Either way, a homophobe will always come to the conclusion that "transwoman = gay man with extensive plastic surgery".

Just because it's LGBT, doesn't mean that LG = T.

Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on May 04, 2012, 11:47:31 PM
I don't mind, and I find it so odd that some people on here wanna separate so bad from LGB. It doesn't help our cause at all, it forces us to stand alone. Either way, a homophobe will always come to the conclusion that "transwoman = gay man with extensive plastic surgery".

Just because it's LGBT, doesn't mean that LG = T.

^ This

Quote from: Jeneva on May 04, 2012, 07:54:19 PM
Also realize that at some point almost every trans-person is considered homosexual. 

If they are really straight then often they are viewed (and may even have viewed themselves) as homosexual BEFORE transition.
If they are really homosexual then they are viewed as homosexual AFTER transition.

There is a degree of overlap between the groups because of this.

This is very true. Never thought of it that way

Quote from: ~~BebeLyss~~ on May 04, 2012, 06:24:58 PM
Is society trying to imply something (that transsexual women are really gay men and transsexual men  are really lesbian women?) Or why else would trans people be "part" of the gay community?

Why can't we have our own community?

Because we're not all gay men or lesbian women.

As for me, I'm a girl with a horrible birth defect and it feels like few people have any sympathy for me or those who are affected like me.

We have to stick together as a COMMUNITY because friendship is a very strong bond. ♥

Oh, and by the way I know plenty of transsexuals are glb. But plenty of cissexuals are glb too.

transgender is also part of the LBG not because of sexual orientation but because of the similiar struggles in civil rights and soceity's viewpoints of us that goes against the grain of "normal heterosexual society."

When someone mentions LGBT, I do not see it as them grouping us with them because of sexual orientation similarities but because of our similar struggles of equal rights, job and work force protection, etc etc.

And when I hear some trans complaining that T is in LGB and shouldn't be (or making a bigger issue than it is) I just shrug it off thinking if it's not this topic they want to bitch about, they'll just pick something else. But for the most part, the majority of trans have no issue with it.

Nothing bad having allies. Having allies is always better than trying to do it alone.

There were plenty of women who supported Black Suffrage because they knew that women wouldn't get rights until all men had them as well. And there were plenty that thought that Black Suffrage detracted from their movement. Then there were women that were racist.

It's a much harsher time I admit, but the parallels can be drawn.

I think that the big benefit to separating the grouping would be that it shows the world that there is indeed a difference between gender identity and sexuality. That said, I still think that I prefer being part of a larger LGBT community, there is definitely strength in numbers. Intolerance can do enough to make us feel like aliens to society without us having to draw our own lines to make our community more isolated. Another plus having one large community keeps all of the information/resources/etc together. Those who wish to get informed can do so more easily with everything being in one place, and will be able to come to their own conclusions. Those who solely wish to discriminate will unfortunately do so regardless, so I'd also rather not be singled out in that hate. So yea, there is a difference, and while that difference is important to me, I think promoting understanding and acceptance for ALL is much better than only seeking it for ourselves.

I think society tries to put things into contexts they can understand.

Society can understand gay people, now at least. They understand that some men, prefer men, while some women, prefer women. Society continues to have a sad obscession with sexual practice. The truth is, sex is only significant when you're a hormonal teenager. For adults, it's relationships.

Transgender people are, as you point out, in a different situation altogether. But it's difficult for most people to get their head around the notion of a man who wants to cut it off or a woman who want to be a guy. So it puts transgender people into a context it can understand and assumes transgender is extreme gay, or gay that seek to hide it and appear straight.

For my own part I am ready to stand beside any gay person and take whatever they take. It's only ignorance and stupidity, after all.

Quote from: spacial on May 05, 2012, 12:44:38 PM
I think society tries to put things into contexts they can understand.

Society can understand gay people, now at least. They understand that some men, prefer men, while some women, prefer women. Society continues to have a sad obscession with sexual practice. The truth is, sex is only significant when you're a hormonal teenager. For adults, it's relationships.

Transgender people are, as you point out, in a different situation altogether. But it's difficult for most people to get their head around the notion of a man who wants to cut it off or a woman who want to be a guy. So it puts transgender people into a context it can understand and assumes transgender is extreme gay, or gay that seek to hide it and appear straight.

Society (as in I assume you are saying a heterosexual society) did not put T in LGBT. We did. We as in everyone in the LGBT community (including trans).

The LGBT community isn't just defined by their sexual orientation. If people defined this vast group of people just because of their sexual (or gender) orientation then they are sadly missing a rather large piece of what LGBT is all about. LGBT is much more than sexual orientation or gender orientation. It's about the spirit to overcome dire obstacles, a willingness to be heard, and a desire to be respected, and so much more.

"labels labels" but I guess humans need to have them

To me at least I am clearly a girl...always have been, but the vessel given to me by mother nature to go thru life in resembles a "male", where the "labels" get tricky is I am not attracted to guys in any way other than friendship, my preferred "gender" for relations, intimacy etc. is female...be that cis or trans female it doesn't matter at all. The majority of my friends growing up have been girls. But I was able to skate thru life presenting as male for the simple fact it was "easier"...that is changing as we speak

Now the public would view this as "lesbian" and I could care less really.

I think the LGBT exposure is just fine as far as educating the public and getting more power together for civil, equality rights...that is always a good thing!!