I don't really see how SOMEONE ELSE identifies matters. Just worry about yourself and how YOU identify. These kind-of threads piss me off because it assumes that all FTM's have to be a certain way in order to ID as an FTM. It shouldn't really matter what someone else does. If it does, it's more of a reflection on you. Not them.

Quote from: Darrin Scott on May 12, 2012, 05:06:56 PM
I don't really see how SOMEONE ELSE identifies matters. Just worry about yourself and how YOU identify. These kind-of threads piss me off because it assumes that all FTM's have to be a certain way in order to ID as an FTM. It shouldn't really matter what someone else does. If it does, it's more of a reflection on you. Not them.

You're right that everyone s responsible for their own identity, but I fear that their identity will affect how I'm seen. That makes it my business.

It's like straight girls who go around pretending to be bisexual just because guys think it's hot when they make out with their friends. Meanwhile, real lesbians are being shoved into lockers, spat on, attacked, and relentlessly bullied. Or kids who cut themselves and post pictures of it on Facebook, because they think people will feel bad for them. Meanwhile, kids who really have depression and self-injury problems are regarded as whiny, shallow attention seekers who shouldn't be taken seriously, ever. Or people who go around claiming to be Wiccan because they think it's cool and edgy and different. Meanwhile, real pagans are treated like delusional satanists.

These people who are "FTM" because they think it makes them unique, parading around and saying things like "i'm not a guy, i'm a transman! die cis scum. ->-bleeped-<- pride!". Meanwhile I have suffered with intense dysphoria since I was little and just wanna be seen as a regular guy. They will do anything they can to stand out, and they will use whatever they can to get that attention - even if it puts all of the other people associated with that in a bad position. It makes me angry.

Quote from: ParodyOfLife on May 12, 2012, 05:16:52 PM

These people who are "FTM" because they think it makes them unique, parading around and saying things like "i'm not a guy, i'm a transman! die cis scum. ->-bleeped-<- pride!".

Now is this factual, or just an assumption?

Quote from: conformer on May 12, 2012, 05:22:46 PM
Now is this factual, or just an assumption?

Two of them have explicitly told me they do it because it's cool. "Die cis scum", "->-bleeped-<- pride", etc. are probably the most common phrases in the FTM community on Tumblr and yeah I think it's an accurate portrayal of them.

Hold on I'll get an example for you.
EDIT: http://i.imgur.com/jPnxE.jpg

Quote from: ParodyOfLife on May 12, 2012, 05:16:52 PM
You're right that everyone s responsible for their own identity, but I fear that their identity will affect how I'm seen. That makes it my business.

It's like straight girls who go around pretending to be bisexual just because guys think it's hot when they make out with their friends. Meanwhile, real lesbians are being shoved into lockers, spat on, attacked, and relentlessly bullied. Or kids who cut themselves and post pictures of it on Facebook, because they think people will feel bad for them. Meanwhile, kids who really have depression and self-injury problems are regarded as whiny, shallow attention seekers who shouldn't be taken seriously, ever. Or people who go around claiming to be Wiccan because they think it's cool and edgy and different. Meanwhile, real pagans are treated like delusional satanists.

These people who are "FTM" because they think it makes them unique, parading around and saying things like "i'm not a guy, i'm a transman! die cis scum. ->-bleeped-<- pride!". Meanwhile I have suffered with intense dysphoria since I was little and just wanna be seen as a regular guy. They will do anything they can to stand out, and they will use whatever they can to get that attention - even if it puts all of the other people associated with that in a bad position. It makes me angry.

I agree.  Some people who claim to be FtM don't even know what the term means.  Some people do like to do things just to stand out.  However people are just going to see people the way they want to no matter what.  You could be a professional MMA fighter who has gotten top and bottom surgery while also finding the cure for all sicknesses but there are just some people out there who would still always see you as female or a joke.  Some people are idiots like that. 

You don't have to prove anything to anyone in order to be seen as male.  It's not your place to do that.  There are some people who are willing to be educated on the subject matter.  Let your actions show who you really are and the rest of the B.S. surrounding you may be cut away.  You are just trying to live your life the best that you can as male and if someone can't see that then that is their issue not yours.

I guess a question I have at this point would be to ask how representative of the FTM community in general can be described by what's on Tumblr? Tumblr is not a site I would turn to when trying to learn about a segment of this or any community. True, it's a facet of a segment of a community. But, I think it only represents those who are Tumblr members/users.

Quote from: ParodyOfLife on May 12, 2012, 05:16:52 PM
You're right that everyone s responsible for their own identity, but I fear that their identity will affect how I'm seen. That makes it my business.

It's like straight girls who go around pretending to be bisexual just because guys think it's hot when they make out with their friends. Meanwhile, real lesbians are being shoved into lockers, spat on, attacked, and relentlessly bullied. Or kids who cut themselves and post pictures of it on Facebook, because they think people will feel bad for them. Meanwhile, kids who really have depression and self-injury problems are regarded as whiny, shallow attention seekers who shouldn't be taken seriously, ever. Or people who go around claiming to be Wiccan because they think it's cool and edgy and different. Meanwhile, real pagans are treated like delusional satanists.

These people who are "FTM" because they think it makes them unique, parading around and saying things like "i'm not a guy, i'm a transman! die cis scum. ->-bleeped-<- pride!". Meanwhile I have suffered with intense dysphoria since I was little and just wanna be seen as a regular guy. They will do anything they can to stand out, and they will use whatever they can to get that attention - even if it puts all of the other people associated with that in a bad position. It makes me angry.

The part underlined:

Yes, those things happen, but it probably would have happened anyway.  People generally look down on something they don't see as "normal".  It's not just the "fakers"* who give them a bad name.  It takes a lot more than that.  If you do anything that is not considered in the norm, then you are at risk for being picked on/bullied/etc.  The "fakers" definitely don't help the image, but they're not the sole cause.

How people view is isn't just based off of those people.  It's also based off of it not being within the norm and based off of stereotypes and many other things.

See below for why they (the FtMs) identify the way they do:

The part in bold:

It just reminded me of something:  What if they don't want to say they identify as male because their body is female and, to them, that means they are a transman/FtM and not male -- that it would take them transitioning to male for them to actually be male.  Until then, they're FtM and not male.  Some people aren't comfortable identifying as X when they aren't physically X yet.

* "fakers" = people who do something because they want attention and not because it's who they really are.  i.e. Ladies saying they're into ladies because it's "cool" or because their guys like it; people who dress a certain way for shock value; etc.

Quote from: Connie Anne on May 12, 2012, 05:31:02 PM
I guess a question I have at this point would be to ask how representative of the FTM community in general can be described by what's on Tumblr? Tumblr is not a site I would turn to when trying to learn about a segment of this or any community. True, it's a facet of a segment of a community. But, I think it only represents those who are Tumblr members/users.

Very true, and thank god for that. I rarely see this kind of person outside of Tumblr. Problem is I'm 19 and people my age use Tumblr as often as Facebook or Twitter. A few of my friends (who don't know I'm trans) were making fun of the FTMs on there yesterday... so the community clearly has some audience.

Quote from: ParodyOfLife on May 12, 2012, 05:26:01 PM
Two of them have explicitly told me they do it because it's cool. "Die cis scum", "->-bleeped-<- pride", etc. are probably the most common phrases in the FTM community on Tumblr and yeah I think it's an accurate portrayal of them.

Hold on I'll get an example for you.
EDIT: http://i.imgur.com/jPnxE.jpg

Eh, well though they do seem like jerks, they are minuscule in the community and shouldn't be thought much of. The odds of someone really comparing you to someone who mocks ftms I think is very low because like no one knows about them lol. Fortunately there are far less people like you described in the trans community compared to other examples that you gave (people who cut for attention, etc. ).

Quote from: Lynn Gabriel on May 12, 2012, 05:35:33 PM
What if they don't want to say they identify as male because their body is female and, to them, that means they are a transman/FtM and not male -- that it would take them transitioning to male for them to actually be male.  Until then, they're FtM and not male.  Some people aren't comfortable identifying as X when they aren't physically X yet.

I think this is a very good point.

Though I'm a male-to-female transsexual, I don't identify as "female" at this time because I still have my "outie." I use the definitions of fe/male and wo/man as suggested by Susan Stryker in her book Transgender History. Fe/male are terms that refer to sex with is anatomical (between the legs) and wo/man refer to gender (between the ears).

So, I identify for the time being as a male-bodied woman. I feel that this is accurate and will be accurate until I have SRS. I understand that this could be seen as splitting hairs, but I think it's an important detail in my self-description.

Quote from: Connie Anne on May 12, 2012, 05:47:13 PM
I think this is a very good point.

Though I'm a male-to-female transsexual, I don't identify as "female" at this time because I still have my "outie." I use the definitions of fe/male and wo/man as suggested by Susan Stryker in her book Transgender History. Fe/male are terms that refer to sex with is anatomical (between the legs) and wo/man refer to gender (between the ears).

So, I identify for the time being as a male-bodied woman. I feel that this is accurate and will be accurate until I have SRS. I understand that this could be seen as splitting hairs, but I think it's an important detail in my self-description.

Valid point. If that is the case for these people I wouldn't care as much.... though somehow I doubt it is.
Next time I encounter one of them I will ask for them to define 'male' after they say they are not male. Hopefully they won't block me again for "gender policing and cissexism" LOLOL.

"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Given to all, but none are given the right to take it away from others. Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: ParodyOfLife on May 12, 2012, 05:16:52 PM
You're right that everyone s responsible for their own identity, but I fear that their identity will affect how I'm seen. That makes it my business.

It's like straight girls who go around pretending to be bisexual just because guys think it's hot when they make out with their friends. Meanwhile, real lesbians are being shoved into lockers, spat on, attacked, and relentlessly bullied. Or kids who cut themselves and post pictures of it on Facebook, because they think people will feel bad for them. Meanwhile, kids who really have depression and self-injury problems are regarded as whiny, shallow attention seekers who shouldn't be taken seriously, ever. Or people who go around claiming to be Wiccan because they think it's cool and edgy and different. Meanwhile, real pagans are treated like delusional satanists.

These people who are "FTM" because they think it makes them unique, parading around and saying things like "i'm not a guy, i'm a transman! die cis scum. ->-bleeped-<- pride!". Meanwhile I have suffered with intense dysphoria since I was little and just wanna be seen as a regular guy. They will do anything they can to stand out, and they will use whatever they can to get that attention - even if it puts all of the other people associated with that in a bad position. It makes me angry.

Here's a bit of advice. Don't make other people's issues/problems/identities/etc your "business". Do you enjoy it when people put YOU under THEIR microscope and make your actions/likes/issues/whatever their business? Best to just do your own thing and don't get so wrapped up in what other people are doing.

I agree with casey.

Also, that quote you posted about "die cis scum" was from Dear Cis People, which takes anonymous submissions. I don't see how you could reasonably link it to these people you think are incorrectly identifying themselves.

Per discussion by the staff, the links to the pictures in the OP have been removed.

Quote from: Connie Anne on May 12, 2012, 06:34:46 PM
Per discussion by the staff, the links to the pictures in the OP have been removed.

Thank you for this.  I was just coming here to say, that yes those people put those pics in a public forum, but we all hate it when a certain militant radical feminist takes our publicly posted photos and uses them to fuel her anti-trans hate blog.

Written descriptions work just as well.

Quote from: Marion on May 12, 2012, 06:34:13 PM
I agree with casey.

Also, that quote you posted about "die cis scum" was from Dear Cis People, which takes anonymous submissions. I don't see how you could reasonably link it to these people you think are incorrectly identifying themselves.

*SIGH* That was just one example of many. I've seen it countless times by the people who I'm referring to.

Quote from: Connie Anne on May 12, 2012, 06:34:46 PM
Per discussion by the staff, the links to the pictures in the OP have been removed.

Fair enough. I knew that would happen.

Quote from: casey on May 12, 2012, 06:49:22 PM
I guess the only thing I wonder is, you expect others to take you super seriously in terms of your identity (which is fair), but you don't seem to take these people seriously. There's more than one way to be trans, more than one way to be, and neither one is inherently better than the other.

I don't take it seriously because it's internally inconsistent... a "ftm" who's not male-gendered is like a gay man who's not into men; nonexistent. It's fine to be gender-variant, genderqueer, etc. but they should acknowledge what they actually are instead of pretending to be something else. It's really not so much to ask.

Quote from: ParodyOfLife on May 12, 2012, 07:00:40 PM
I don't take it seriously because it's internally inconsistent... a "ftm" who's not male-gendered is like a gay man who's not into men; nonexistent. It's fine to be gender-variant, genderqueer, etc. but they should acknowledge what they actually are instead of pretending to be something else. It's really not so much to ask.

So, what does that make me then? For the reasons I mentioned above, I don't identify as female as I am still anatomically male. My sex is still male, but my gender is woman. To rephrase a comment you made earlier in this thread, am I MTT: male to trans? I don't think that I am, because trans is not the endpoint. Trans is the process, female is the endpoint. But, I'm still in process.

Would be more accurate to say I'm not MTF (male-to-female) but MTW (man-to-woman)?

Quote from: Connie Anne on May 12, 2012, 07:09:55 PM
So, what does that make me then? For the reasons I mentioned above, I don't identify as female as I am still anatomically male. My sex is still male, but my gender is woman. To rephrase a comment you made earlier in this thread, am I MTT: male to trans? I don't think that I am, because trans is not the endpoint. Trans is the process, female is the endpoint. But, I'm still in process.

Would be more accurate to say I'm not MTF (male-to-female) but MTW (man-to-woman)?

Acronyms aside, it makes you unhappy human being to happy human being.