Registering for anything is a pain in the ass, and I'm lazy. You think I can get away with it if I can change all my documents?

Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on May 14, 2012, 12:39:17 AM
Registering for anything is a pain in the ass, and I'm lazy. You think I can get away with it if I can change all my documents?

In the United States, registration for the selective service is a legal requirement for males.  As there is no "draft," there is no real problem with registration.  The down side is, if you fail to register, you might be denied student loans, etc.

I'd think you make a lovely "Swan" - so why not ask to go to the Navy?

Axélle

We diced that after Vietnam.

You theoretically could be fined 250,000 dollars and go to prison for 5 years if you don't register. I don't know of this happening to anyone but it's probably better not to do have the "dirt" on you. Even if the situations where it could be used against you aren't that likely they are still possible, so you might as well register.

If you don't do it before you are 26 you will be denied student loans, federal job training, and any federal jobs. Again, even if you don't think you will do these things it is better to have them as an option. If you are not a citizen or give up your citizenship for any reason you will not be able to gain US citizenship.

Plus, think about it seriously... if you don't register, is that really going to stop the government from finding you if there is a draft? Probably not, it will only slow them down a little. Also they obviously do not have a great track record towards trans women so don't expect any legal sympathy there although it might be enough to disqualify you for mental health issues if they ever start up a draft. 

If you are that worried about it, the best thing is probably to figure out an "escape plan" in the case of a draft. The most likely thing to work would be to leave the US for an anti-US country (socialist countries like cuba or venezuela come to mind and vietnam even has a citizenship provision for people who are forced to flee their countries for "defending socialism", iran, etc, maybe even Russia or China), but this would require to speak the language and could still be tenuous. Canada is traditional but they extradite and/or prosecute defectors sometimes, so they are not necessarily very safe.

A smaller country politically neutral would be risky because it would be more susceptible to the machinations of larger countries. The UK basically just extradites everyone to the US although if Scotland ever leaves they might be sympathetic to defectors. But basically this means that there aren't a lot of english speaking countries available. However, if you have a college degree you could probably get a job teaching english in many countries. This would give you more time to learn the language since foreigners are usually hired to teach english in english.

Now people here are going to think I'm nutty becuase I've obviously thought about it a lot, but at least I'm prepared.  The draft has happened before. Even though it's hard to imagine the political climate shifting enough for it to happen it still does not hurt to have plans for how you would respond to various situations. The hardest things to deal with are the ones you haven't prepared for.

Considering that the USA is the only remaining Superpower, and has a huge Army, Navy and Air Force I can't for the life of me think why this system is retained.   
Even before the fall of the USSR the US was the only country that had the capability to actually invade and conquer Australia for instance.
Of course if Mitt Romney wins, there might be a lot of GLBTI folk changing their self-description to Pre-Canadian. 

Karen.

Quote from: justmeinoz on May 14, 2012, 03:47:27 AM
Considering that the USA is the only remaining Superpower, and has a huge Army, Navy and Air Force I can't for the life of me think why this system is retained.   

Basically, it's because the conservatives and militarists would take it as a blow to the image of United States. If the draft were ended it would give the appearance of a more peaceful, less aggressive, and less impulsive United States, strengthening the position of the anti-war movement and liberals and possibly enabling other countries to see the US as softer. The fact that it's Tradition and the conservatives are not trying to add anything new makes it relatively easy for them to just dig in their feet and keep things the way they are.

Or the short answer: It's for the principle of it.

There is no draft in the USA... and if you register for the selective service just tell them your new gender

Quote from: Carbon on May 14, 2012, 04:00:39 AM
Basically, it's because the conservatives and militarists would take it as a blow to the image of United States. If the draft were ended it would give the appearance of a more peaceful, less aggressive, and less impulsive United States, strengthening the position of the anti-war movement and liberals and possibly enabling other countries to see the US as softer. The fact that it's Tradition and the conservatives are not trying to add anything new makes it relatively easy for them to just dig in their feet and keep things the way they are.

Or the short answer: It's for the principle of it.

The traditional selective service registration procedure was terminated by President Gerald Ford (R) in 1975, but reinstated by President Jimmy Carter (D) in 1980.  Carter was no "conservative."

The US military prefers the all volunteer system it currently uses. There's no point sending someone who doesn't want to fight into the ring. For this reason, I don't see a draft coming back. Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Jamie D on May 14, 2012, 05:54:46 AM
The traditional selective service registration procedure was terminated by President Gerald Ford (R) in 1975, but reinstated by President Jimmy Carter (D) in 1980.  Carter was no "conservative."

That's not really relevant to my point in response to justmeinoz's question about why the US needs a draft given its current military, given that Ford did not end the draft and merely changed the draft procedures. And even if it was relevant, that doesn't mean being a democrat means you can simply ignore the opinions of people who disagree with you, nor would it have much to do with why the draft continues to operate now while Obama continues to push for other controversial changes in the US military that presumably matter more to him

I'll give you credit in that I didn't know about the historical lapse in the selective service system and that I learned something new, but I don't feel like it invalidates my argument here.

war is nothing but destructive and solves nothing, so no, you don't need to register. world peace 

Quote from: FullMoon19 on May 14, 2012, 02:38:36 PM
war is nothing but destructive and solves nothing, so no, you don't need to register. world peace 

I would say about six million Jews annihilated by the Final Solution, and all those who survived, would disagree with you that "war ... solves nothing."

Quote from: Jamie D on May 14, 2012, 02:53:42 PM
I would say about six million Jews annihilated by the Final Solution, and all those who survived, would disagree with that "war ... solves nothing."

at the same time, i don't think any one of them had told hitler to be the demonic being he was.

I thought this thread was a joke so checked it out. After all, can't go disagreeing with the opinions of six million dead people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_Service_System There's an interesting section on Failure to register.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/defenseandsecurity/a/draftreg.htm

Thanks for the links, Spacial! Let's get back to Tristas' question, which seems to be "What are the ramifications of not signing up with the Selective Service?"

That's basically what I was looking for Devlyn, though, as I said, was also interested in checking if this was a perverse joke. You can surely understand, it is reminiscent of what we are often told about N Korea, not the land of the free.

I think it was Jamie D who brought up the 6 mil thing.

I apologise if I appear to be overly cynical. My time working as a psychiatric nurse taught me to deal carefully with delusions, not to reinforce nor belittle. I once met a guy looking to join his legions on Mars. I'm attempting to deal with people here in the same way.

I wouldn't normally join a thread such as this, of course, but I was curious about the question. I don't suppose it might help you if I point out that I, a Briton, seemingly found this information and more beside, while all of you, presumably, eligible Americans, still don't seem to have managed?

QuoteFailure to register

In 1980, men who knew they were required to register and did not do so could face up to five years in jail or a fine up to $50,000 if convicted. The potential fine was later increased to $250,000. Despite these possible penalties, government records indicate that from 1980 through 1986 there were only 20 indictments, of which 19 were instigated in part by self-publicized and self-reported non-registration.[27] As one of the elements of the offense, the government must prove that a violation of the Military Selective Service Act was knowing and willful. This is almost impossible unless the prospective defendant has publicly stated that he knew he was required to register or report for induction, or unless he has been visited by the FBI, personally served with notice to register or report for induction, and given another chance to comply. The last prosecution for non-registration was in January 1986, after which many believed the government declined to continue enforcing that law when it became apparent that the trials were themselves causing a decline in registration. Routine checks requiring identification virtually never include a request for draft card.
As an alternative method of encouraging registration, federal legislators passed laws requiring that to receive financial aid, federal grants and loans, certain government benefits, eligibility for most federal employment, and (if the person is an immigrant) eligibility for citizenship, a young man had to be registered (or had to have been registered, if they are over 26 but were required to register between 18 and 26) with Selective Service. Those who were required to register, but failed to do so before they turn 26, are no longer allowed to register, and thus may be permanently barred from federal jobs and other benefits, unless they can show to the Selective Service that their failure was not knowing and willful.[6] There is a procedure to provide an "information letter" by the SSS for those in these situations, for example recent citizens who entered the US after their 26th birthday.[28]
Most states, as well as the District of Columbia, Guam, Northern Mariana Islands, and Virgin Islands, have passed laws requiring registration in order for men 18–25 to be eligible for programs that vary on a per-jurisdiction basis but typically include driver's licenses, state-funded higher education benefits, and state government jobs.[29] Alaska also requires registration in order to receive an Alaska Permanent Fund dividend.[29] Eight states (Connecticut, Indiana, Nebraska, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Vermont, Washington, and Wyoming) as well as Puerto Rico have no such requirements, though Indiana does give men 18–25 the option of registering with Selective Service when obtaining a drivers license or an identification card.[29] The New York State Department of Motor Vehicles automatically registers young men 18-25 with the Selective Service as federally required, whenever they apply for the driver licenses, learner permits, or non-driver identification cards.[30]
There are some third-party organized efforts to compensate financial aid for those students losing benefits, including the Fund for Education and Training (FEAT) and Student Aid Fund for Non-registrants.[31][32]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_Service_System#Failure_to_register

Why wouldn't you?  It is required and even if there was a draft you won't be eligible because you are trans.  Seems pretty simple.

I was just wondering because it might be pointless to if I'm just going to change all my documents to female in a few years, but I guess I probably should.

do whatever you want to do. lots of people have not registered when they were "supposed" to. there's already more than enough men and women alike in this line of work nowadays. the "selective service" is just an archaic system that's not totally become abolished yet. there's something like "if in the instance world war 3 and chaos reigns, we will need to reinstate the draft." like i said, with all the men and women voluntarily going into this line of work and the fact that chaos is not reigning, it's just a system of conformity that doesn't really serve any futher purpose.
sure, there's all this formal legal print that looks good on paper. realistically, if you were to not register, the most realistic consequence would just be that you would not get student loans and they would tell you to register, provided you are male. at that, there's the "consciencous objector" status. like i said, it's just an old system of conformity.