Hey.I'm new here. I'm new to thinking about my own gender stuff. I've been a trans ally for a long time which right now sucks cause I don't feel comfortable using the resources in my city bc I know everyone at them and they know me.i set some of them up.lol. So I've only told two people, one is my cis gendered bi/queer female ex, the other is my gender queer person I'm dating again, we planed to get married but split up ar christmas and now are trying to date. I don't think its gonna work.our gender stuff messes with the others. I really want to know aside from how I dress, binding (which is laughable as I'm very big chested), packing, shaving off my peach fuzz, thinking_what can I do to explore masculine gender? Im not sure what kind of gender is true for me yet. I came here to post bc it seemed most comfortable but I can't guarntee it is where I'll end up.in life so far/usually I present as a tomboy femme. I don't have a lot of body dysphoria but I've also wanted a penis as long as I remember. Some pieces of me feel female, some seem male. Both people I told were only mildly surprised and said that same thing. I truthfully don't remember childhood so I can't look for clues there as to how I felt when I was young.if I get up the nerve I can ask my brother.I'm not there yet.I'm lucky about my family tho.moms a lesbian w lots of trans friends.brother is the most laid back.open minded guy.dad isn't in the pic.even most of my cousins would likely just pause for a min before saying ok now lets keep living life.none of my friends will care, most of them are trans guys I helped during transition anyhow.even the religion and specific place I worship already have trans members. No one is likely to really have a problem whatever I do.i still feel afraid and reluctant to tell people.  I'm wondering what it its thats makes you certain you are male? For me ast this point, I'm not sure.any thoughts on exploring my gender in private or how you are certain you are a guy would be appreciated.dky

I'd say give it time.  Transition isn't something you want to rush into (even though my family is convinced I'm doing just that [I had no idea thinking about something for only seven years was considered rushing]).  And you don't even have to tell people for awhile.  Feel it out first.  Be mindful of your feelings throughout the day every day.  Do you feel uncomfortable when people treat you as a girl?  How do you feel when they "mistake" you for a guy?  Do you ever just want to scream in frustration when people use the word she?  Pay attention to all this stuff over a period of time.  If after a few years you find your feelings to be constant or even worsening, then I'd say go forward with it.

Also, don't feel afraid to explore masculine gender, as you said.  You don't have to go through medical transition right away and you don't even have to consider yourself trans yet.  For a little bit I thought of myself as gender queer and tried exploring a gender fluid stance.  I learned a lot about my own gender that way while allowing myself to be more flexible than the "I am trans" mentality sometimes allows.  It was a good exploration step.

So basically, just don't rush it.  I see sureity in this as something you find over time.  When people get tattoos, they tell them to get the idea for the tattoo in head and then wait a year.  If you still want it at the end of the year, then get it.  I think that's good advice for any irreversible life decision, although the time frame isn't set in stone and it isn't always practical.  But it's still good to take things slow and be flexible while deciding.

Welcome to Susan's, dky! 

I agree with Devin, but it's great that you're exploring and questioning.  This is a great place to ask questions. 

Concerning your question as to how we knew/know that we are male - for myself, I have known since I was 5 years old.  I was shocked when I was called a "girl" and didn't understand why the other boys didn't want to play with me.  I remember seeing another boy's penis in kindergarten and not understanding why I didn't have one.  I knew then that I was in the wrong body - and have known ever since.

Quote from: dky on May 22, 2012, 05:17:52 AM
I don't have a lot of body dysphoria but I've also wanted a penis as long as I remember. Some pieces of me feel female, some seem male. I'm wondering what it its thats makes you certain you are male? For me ast this point, I'm not sure.any thoughts on exploring my gender in private or how you are certain you are a guy would be appreciated.dky

I haven't really seen a lot of people who don't have too much dysphoria in terms of their body. I don't hate my body. Now that is not to say that I like what I see. I usually avoid looking below my neck when I'm in front of the mirror. I don't particularly enjoy seeing how big my chest is. So this lack of hate for my body definitely played a big part in my confusion of whether or not I truly am trans. What makes me certain I am male? Well, you could go out and ask people, what makes a man a man and I guarantee you'd have plenty of different answers. Some would obviously say, you need to have a penis. Others would say things like being masculine, etc. So much depends on the individual. There is NO right answer to this. There never will be.

Why do I see myself as a male? How am I certain? When I was younger, I would pray at night that I would wake up with a penis and a flat chest. I saw myself getting married, in a tux, and being the husband. I saw myself as the father figure to my future kids. I NEVER looked at the female body and thought to myself, "I wished I looked like that". But I have ALWAYS looked at men and envied their bodies. I have always wanted facial hair, etc. I liked my hairy legs when I was younger and girls didn't have to shave!!!! (Then you hit that certain age where you are weird for not shaving!)

I say all these things but that does not mean I don't have my doubts. I have always been scared with the pronouns and adjusting to being called by male pronouns. In my head, I have had a lot of difficulty switching over. But I love it when my partner tells me that I'm her man or things like that. It just takes time. The best thing you can do is write down the reasons why you want to transition or why you think you are trans and then on the opposite side write why you think you aren't.

Remember there is a huge spectrum in the trans community. What's right for some, isn't always right for others. It is never black and white. The best thing you can do is learn to not be ashamed or embarrassed. Maybe talk to one or two people who you say you have helped transition.

Best of luck. I hope you find your way

Hi and welcome.  Devin has covered things pretty well, and nothing is going to happen overnight in the physical department.  If you are uncertain, which is totally understandable at this stage, you could just say you are exploring masculine aspects of your personality, and leave it at that if discussing things.
If you feel equally comfortable being regarded as a man or woman, perhaps you have an Androgyne identity, like quite a few people here.  Nature loves diversity. 
How do we know who we are? That is a totally subjective question. As for me I never was really comfortable thinking of myself as a man, there always seemed to be something just slightly out of phase.  Now though, I just know in the core of my being that I am a woman, regardless of the shape of my body.

Karen. 

You sound pretty much like someone I know who is genderfluent.
sure I can't say what you are or not, but as it said before its not a race or a jugde poll.

I honestly don't know what makes me male or female to be honest.
its not that I am a steryotypical guy. I just kinda liked it that way and grew used to it.
having people refering me as female always makes me depressed and felling akward it dosent really feel right it just feel alittle strange.
I guess its much of an inner felling where we figure out who we are and who we arn't.
We all try experiment alittle in our life to find ourself, we dont find a whole and complite solution in 1 day, it takes time, and even when we find it people changes and we change ourself over the time.

The way someone finds out for sure what they are is going to be different for everyone, but I think you know that already.

For me, I knew since I was really young. I had a cousin and he still had to wear diapers at night cause he peed his bed. I thought maybe his penis was like dis functional or not fully grown (I was like 4-5 years old, didn't know much lol) so I thought maybe that's why I didn't have a penis even though I didn't have any problems with bed wetting or anything, because it hadn't fully grown and I'd grow one lol. Yeah that never happened.

I also asked my mum several times when I was more like 9-10 years old (which is around the time we started learning about puberty), if there was people that did operations to become the other sex. She told me no though... >_>

But yes, that's what has me knowing 100% for me. That along with the general feeling of not feeling comfortable as a girl and etc, but events like those I mentioned are what convinced me this was the right decision, and I haven't looked back.

Thanks for the responses. Um I wish I could look at peoples names again as I write this so I'm gonna apologize now for not remembering who said what. The comment about looking at mens bodies and thinking I want to look like that struck true to me. Same with the kid dynamic, I did co parent a kid (stupidly wo any legal protection) and I felt like and acted like his dad a lot. When he started talking he called both of us mama and papa, then he decided it was fun to call me "d". His other parent wouldn't have been ok w me being called daddy, but I would have.  I appreciated the comment also about saying I'm exploring my masculine side. I think that is a disclosure level I'm comfortable with generally right now.  When I think about my body,i feel appreciative of how it brings pleasure, that includes my chest. I recognize my chest in particular is an area others like on me.in a moment with a lover I can really enjoy how my chest feels but there its some level of being divorced from them as mine.like I like them and they feel good sometimes but I think of them as kind of other from me and Igenuinely appreciate them aesthetically but wouldn't mind if they lived on a shelf and I could just take them down to play with.not sure that makes sense. do I have to hate my body s ability to give and receive pleasure to be a guy? I know everyone is different and I personally know some guys who feel this way but it also seems stigmatized.I've been told they aren't real men or really trans of they g.et pleasure w their born body.that seems odd to me. So I just saw I can see all the posts.feeling like a moron.
As for time I'm definately not in a hurry, already way past puberty so no chance to change things that way. I just want to do some explorations and be open to whatever I feel.I'll check out the androgyne forum as well.might fit.
About mirrors,i basically hate them and almost never look in them, is that unusual if I'm not gender queer or trans? I've never given it much thought before.
Ok I'm stuck on thinking about my body now.when I see a beautiful woman,i think I'd like to be with her not I'd like to look like her.i look ast men, at, that is and think both.I'm wondering if I don't think of myself as very body dysphoric because I tend to think about my body only when I'm injured, ill or having a sexual experience. I also have to consider how much all that might be affected by how I was raised and severely abused and taught I'm only worth sex.i worked hard to take back sexual pleasure, harder to find more worth than sex in myself. I feel certain these things relate.i just don't know how yet. Anyone else have any input for that topic? Figuring that apart seems hard core but obviously I have to.
Thanks for telling me your thoughts and stories.

I can't speak from personal experience as I have extreme bottom dysphoria, but there are individuals here who have and continue to receive pleasure from their born genitalia and it doesn't make them less of a man or not trans.  Dysphoria presents itself in a vast amount of manifestations - not all men experience it in the same way.  Some have major issues with their chests and little to no issues with their lower "bits".  Some have major issues down there with little to no care about their chests. 

I have to say, there seems to be more men who have issues with their chests than their "nether bits" - that's not to say that all of them necessarily enjoy sex with those bits, just that the chest seems to be the most noticeable aspect of the physical body that is visually and palpably disturbing.

I also know that there were/are a few guys here who have had similar issues in the past with feeling no self worth and thus allowing themselves to be sexually used.  You're definitely not alone.

dky wrote: Some pieces of me feel female, some seem male. Both people I told were only mildly surprised and said that same thing.

You might want to check out the "Androgyne Talk" board.

Quote from: dky on May 22, 2012, 01:52:00 PM
Thanks for the responses. Um I wish I could look at peoples names again as I write this so I'm gonna apologize now for not remembering who said what....

When you hit the "Reply" or "Quote" button, and the text input (post reply) screen comes up, you can scroll down the page and see some of the most recent prior posts.

Most of the replies so far are from people who knew they were trans from an early age, which definitely happens but is not universal among trans people. I know that I repressed a great deal, growing up in a family where I was not allowed to express myself even if I'd been born cisgender. For me, the biggest hurdle was just giving myself permission to believe that I might be trans. And this was after knowing tons of trans people, having trans friends, reading all kinds of gender theory, and being a trans ally. For some of us, it just takes a bit longer. Maybe it's due to our personality, our past experiences, or some combination of the two. You might not be trans, but if you are don't beat yourself up for not "knowing" sooner. Also, if you end up deciding that you are trans, it is likely that you will remember things in the past that would've indicated this. We all create and re-create our own narratives to explain how we got to where we are today. What is more important is that you try to find out what will make you the happiest right now and then do just that.

Luridream, thanks for letting me know there is another here who can relate to not having always known. That is really helpful.

Jamie D, thanks for the tech input and throwing out another possible fit to the puzzle. Another had mentioned that forum and I'm going to look at it too.

Kreuzfidel, both of your responses are insightful and open my head to things I might have taken longer to get to.thanks.

I'm totally open to what anyone thinks of.it's all thought provoking.

I'm one of those people who did not always know. I didn't start exploring until around 25, but was always masculine. You don't always have to know at an early age. Just give it time and explore. Sometimes people come to a conclusion through that.

Hi dky,

Actually you sound a bit like what I am going thru. Right now I ID as androgyne or genderqueer. I feel confused by it a LOT, but I also feel some sense of self-discovery. I'd say I have mild dysphoria. I had early experiences of what might have been GID, I'm not sure, as I don't recall enough about it.
I'd agree to read the androgyne section. You don't have to rush into anything.

--Jay Jay

For me it was more a inner battle ground. I first asked someone about sex changes when i was 7 but was told how wrong it was and how they would all go to hell ect... I am now 21 will be 22 in about a week and just finally ended this battle this year. You don't always have to know I tried a lot of different things over the years and decided I was a guy not just a very masculine girl, dike or even just a cross dresser, but thats just me.
Some of the things that made me realize this was how i felt was
when addressed as a female vs. male back before I realized it was okay to be trans in high school I used to got to different conventions and stuff and would always dress up as a male character. I was usually so convincing that I was addressed as a male and it always made me feel good inside.
I also had a hard time relating or having conversations with girls in comparison to guys. When all the girls were talking about boys clothes books(not the kind i read) and other things i tended to get distracted during all I wanted to talk about was gaming sports sword fighting ect... also liked more of the same books and movies.
I also felt proud and happy about the fact that I was always invited to guys night with my male friends not even their girlfriends or anything was allowed and I could make just as good a perverted joke as the rest of them.
all these things and more added up and over the course of several years I ended up finally figuring out who I was. Not sure if any of that helped running off a hour of sleep and several cups of coffee right now.

Thanks for the responses.
Darrin, you look awesome for 6mo on t! I like connecting with guys who didn't always know.it helps me feel less wierd.
Aleon515, I also like hearing from you. The less wierd thing again.thanks.
Travis, thanks for sharing your experience. I laughed at the pervy jokes bit.

It's only been a few days/week I've been exploring my masculinity but I have been surprised by how comfortable I feel. Anxiety has always had a big impact on me. I haven't felt anxious much since doing my exploration.that has surprised me.I don't feel like some macho guy,i feel like me still but calmer and happier. Happy actually and for me thats a rare gift.can't think of when I didn't deal w depression. I have bipolar disorder but my mood is habitually set on depressed with very rare manic times and even rarer even keel times. I've seen guys experience this and understand it very likely won't last but I'm into it right now. A kid I'm very close to laughed at me when I was talking to her about why I'm dressing and looking different.i asked her if she was ok with me this way.she said "but you are always a boy, even in a dress". Yet again I was surprised, and a bit delighted by how this 7 year old put it. So far I feel I'm confirming my masculine identity.clearly a lot more time and exploration is needed but this feels like a good start. I've also talked to a few other people about what I'm feeling including a couple of my trans guy friends.everyone has been nice about it so far and some have been very insightful. The only bad thing so far is the butch/male genderqueer person I was dating, my ex fiance, we were trying to restart our relationship, said tonight in order to be true to herself, she couldn't be in a relationship with me. I'm not surprised but I am sad. Yet he is totally supportive about me doing this and being true to myself.but so far everything else is good.

Quote from: dky on May 22, 2012, 09:48:50 PM
Jamie D, thanks for the tech input and throwing out another possible fit to the puzzle. Another had mentioned that forum and I'm going to look at it too.
.

You're welcome.  I just listened to what you said, that's all.

Sad to hear your relationship couldn't be rekindled, but at least you are still friends.  Honesty can hurt, but is always better in the long run.

What to disclose is a question of how safe you feel, so there is nothing wrong with feeling different to how you present yourself at times, if it is more prudent to fib about things.  Self-preservation comes first.

I didn't finally work out what my identity problems were until I was about 55, so you have a good head start.  I also don't hate my body, but am happy that it is becoming more in line with what it ideally should be like.  I plan on having SRS, but if I had to settle for an Orchi, or being non-op I wouldn't be pleased but could live with it. 

Karen.

I didn't "always know".  I don't think I ever really thought about it in elementary and middle school and then when I got to high school I had a lot of confidence in who I was.  I mean, I never thought of myself as the weak female-- I've always been big and broad shouldered and very in control emotionally, so my self-image was strong and very masculine.  It was only when I realized I wasn't going to grow up to be the person I pictured in my head (when I pictured myself grown up I looked a lot like Agent Booth from Bones) I would get disphoria.  But because it very rarely hit me, I never thought anything of the discrepency and so didn't even think I might be trans or even that there was anything wrong with my self-image until college.  So don't think you need to have always known in order to be trans.