So as some of you know I have been for many years wrestling with feelings about my identity and sexuality and am also a Christian.
Guess what my pastor told me today? I finally decided to talk to them about these issues but was not quite ready to tell them it was me (this is a somewhat conservative small church I am in) She is a female pastor. I asked her how she felt about intersexed people that are born with both genders. I asked her if they should have to choose a gender and have an operation. She said "NO" they do not have to have an operation and "YES" they can get married to someone else as long as that person is comfortable with them having both male and female parts. Or they can choose to have a surgery if they want to. but they don't have to. I was really surprised to hear her say this. Then I asked her if transgender people have the same issue. I asked her would God accept them for who they are and she affirmed "YES" to me. Amazing HUH? I asked her if God would condemn people to hell that are gay,bisexual or lesbian. She said even though sexual preference is a "grey area" in the bible she does not believe for one moment God would reject them. As long as they accept the fact that Jesus is Lord, the rest of it does not matter.

I then also asked her about Abortion. She said if a woman is in a position where they can't afford to raise a child or go through with the pregnancy , that they really need to pray about it and not make any rash decisions. She did say for certain if they were raped or forced incest upon that they should terminate the pregnancy. The only time she said it would be wrong would be if you simply just decided all of the sudden you did not want to "just cause" with no real reason why. Tricky matter but still amazing that my pastor said this.

I asked her about other religions, are they a test of God to see if we believe in Jesus, She said "NO" these were just our attempts to understand God before Jesus walked the earth. As a Christian its not your job to force anyone to believe anything. Let them accept it if they can.

Anyways they said to tell my friend (I have told her its a friend, but its really me, not ready to admit that part yet)to find a GLBT church that accepts these things. I even asked her would it not be safer to just put these things aside and ignore them instead of risking my eternal salvation. She said simply "If you are living a lie, not being true to yourself, how can you then be an effective witness to other people about Jesus"? Again reminding me that she says God would not tell me "I know you not, depart from me". She did give pause though to people who are intersexed, she believes that they should still choose an outward gender, and live as eithier male or female, but can still be gay or lesbian, just simply did not agree that they should go back and forth between looking male or female.

Is that not the best news you have heard all day? My heart lept for joy when she said these things. I have not always been unhappy about looking male, and living as male. I have been back and forth about wanting to live in either skin. Lately I have wanted to know whats its like to be a woman, that is to say "i would like to be magically transformed into a female body with all the pains and pleasures" I have come to realize within myself I am starting to get tired of living and looking male. Does this mean I hate my male self? Not exactly, although I hate the male parts and I hate being in between 2 sexes, and would like to just pick one now. I am 40 now and would like to spend the next 40 years of my life as female, but at the same time I would not say that I was ever 100% unhappy about the way I have been. I do know that I would be "very unhappy" if i never had the chance to be female, that much I do know.


STILL, IS THAT NOT AMAZING?  A christian pastor in a small Texas church saying and believing this things! I know she is not filled with demons or the devil, I have seen her fruits of the spirit, she is a strong witness for the Lord. She herself as a female pastor has had to deal with hate and bigotry in the church. Other Christians can in fact feel if something is evil or demonic, she told me I need pray to know the difference.

I asked her finally how do I know the difference between my own guilt and the Holy Spirit convicting my heart on something. Again she said "Are you being an effective witness by lying to yourself"

So I hope this brings you some hope as it has done for me. Even if you don't believe you still have to admit thats pretty awesome coming from a conservative Christian Church Pastor!

*edit* I should also mention that for some time I have wondered if simply what I needed was to just have orchiectomy, get rid of all my body hair, and just live as a soft eunuch male with no parts, a somewhat androgynous look and neither really being effeminate or masculine. That might be just me thinking its the safer choice to take because then people would just see me as a soft looking male for the most part. But then I am still not attracted to men, I am attracted to women, and so have often thought if this really makes me a lesbian instead. That part is still a slippery area for me, but at least I know it could be done either way.

Good for her!!

she is clearly an exception...but she should be an example to all the non accepting ones that far out number her.

its a start my friend....and brave of you to talk with her

I'm not 100 % sure about asking religion related people for advice on issues like this, but putting that aside... This is amazing, indeed. With all of the bad things we hear about religions and the close-minded things they promote, and the priests saying that this or that is a demonic thing and all... It's nice to see that there -are- some religious people who are as good as they claim.

It almost makes the religion opponent that I am put belief and hope in religions again.
(Almost, eh.)

That's a very good thing, indeed. Past all the frowning about the lord and the holy stuff, I couldn't help myself and smiled at the openness and niceness of that lady.

By the way, I don't think she can call herself conservative after having said all of those things to you, ehe.

PS: What's the difference between a priestess and a pastor? (Apart from the fact priestesses don't exist in this religion, that is.)

A female minister or pastor is the same as a male pastor, except for the fact that they deal with snickers, smirks and stares at best and at worst deal with condemnation from other Christians, being treated as a non equal at the seminary and being told they don't have the biblical authority to preach based on a few misinterpreted scriptures.

Uhm, I had guessed they were the same as male pastors. It's just that I don't know the difference between a pastor and a priest.

Quote from: ShawnTOShawnna on May 27, 2012, 04:28:00 PM
A female minister or pastor is the same as a male pastor, except for the fact that they deal with snickers, smirks and stares at best and at worst deal with condemnation from other Christians, being treated as a non equal at the seminary and being told they don't have the biblical authority to preach based on a few misinterpreted scriptures.

Yeah, that is the sad thing about the Christians they interpret the bible anyway to fit their interests.

Quote from: A on May 27, 2012, 04:36:27 PM
Uhm, I had guessed they were the same as male pastors. It's just that I don't know the difference between a pastor and a priest.

Ok well in that case a priest is usually considered to be from the catholic church, but there are other priests. Its just a title that refers to the duties and such. I see it the same as A hamburger (also called a hamburger sandwich, burger or hamburg) But a little more like saying a hamburger with the works (a pastor) or a hamburger with mustard and cheese (a priest)

I serve in the United Church of Christ (UCC). They aren't an "LGBT Church" per say but many are open and affirming (meaning, they find LGBT no different than straight people).

The only LGBT Church I really know of is the Metropolitan Community Church (MCC) but from what I am hearing, they may be dissolving into other churches such as the United Church of Christ. With more and more denominations accepting LGBT people, the MCC churches are loosing their ability to remain a independent LGBT church. Some MCC are really trying to make their churches diverse with straight allies in the fold.

There are hundreds and hundreds of pastors and churches in the United Church that embrace LGBT. You just need to know where to look. Unfortunately, you only hear about the fundamentalists a lot more because negativity breeds attention (just like violence or bad news breeds TV News ratings).

Here is a start for a link to tie you in

http://www.ucc.org/lgbt/

Oh and here is some pics of my Seminary during our LGBT week we have every year (to show you how open LGBT are being accepted today):



And some snippets of my Seminary:





Many of our students are LGBT. Matter of fact I think straight people here are a minority. Our Vice President and Dean of Academic Affairs is a wonderful gay man who is married to the coolest guy I've seen in a long time.

We have two others on staff at my Seminary who are LGBT too.

Sounds like she is a true Christian.  Living as Jesus taught.

hey thanks for that Annah and yes ms. obrien, it does sound like it.

Oh and Annah I currently to to Disciples of Christ Christian Church, i call it somewhat conservative simply cause of the members there. Its a very small town in Texas. In fact Global Ministries is a partnership between the UCC and Disciples. I also learned a while ago that Churches of Christ and Disciples of Christ were in fact just one church in its early stages in America. Just curious though is United Church of Christ also connected to the original Churches of Christ in America.

Sadly though my own sister in law has told me that I am not a real christian because I don't go to her Church of Christ, that I have to accept being baptized in order to be saved (i was baptized after I was saved) and that they don't use musical instruments, which is fine for them i suppose but i like instruments. I know that the Disciples of Christ differ on the 2 points she brings up to me. Course the disciples got a bad rap from Jim Jones and his evil garbage. I was baptist before for a while. I have been to many churches.

Hi Shawna,

I've posted before that I'm not in the least religious but I'm also very happy that people get joy and affirmation from their religion. Your Pastor sounds a fine person, and it is a comfort to balance the books between the fundamentalist loonies and people who have love for their fellow humans.

A nice post thank you.

Cindy

My aunt is a Minister in the Uniting Church of Australia.. And nothing your paster said is any different to what my aunt told me. She's been accepting of my transition since the outset.

Quote from: ShawnTOShawnna on May 28, 2012, 01:33:38 AM

Sadly though my own sister in law has told me that I am not a real christian because I don't go to her Church of Christ, that I have to accept being baptized in order to be saved (i was baptized after I was saved) and that they don't use musical instruments, which is fine for them i suppose but i like instruments. I know that the Disciples of Christ differ on the 2 points she brings up to me. Course the disciples got a bad rap from Jim Jones and his evil garbage. I was baptist before for a while. I have been to many churches.

That doesn't sound like the United Church of Christ as the denomination does not stress baptism necessary for salvation. Also, we use musical instruments of all types. Are you sure this is The United Church of Christ?

Also, Jim Jones was part of a independent movement called the "The People's Church" which really did not adhere to any doctrine...it was just a way for him to sleep around.

Before the founding of "The People's Church" he was ordained in the Assemblies of God.

No she doesn't go to UCC she goes to Church of Christ

I just now had another person try to persuade me to see things her way in another forum. They said "In my opinion, the gender God gave you is the one your DNA supports. If you have Y chromosomes, then you are a guy" So what sort of response should I tell her?

Quote from: ShawnTOShawnna on May 28, 2012, 10:52:41 PM
No she doesn't go to UCC she goes to Church of Christ

I just now had another person try to persuade me to see things her way in another forum. They said "In my opinion, the gender God gave you is the one your DNA supports. If you have Y chromosomes, then you are a guy" So what sort of response should I tell her?

That you don't care what her opinion is?

I guess you could say that Gender is a lot more complicated than that and that God made you the way you are, She is assuming your feelings are only a choice, which means she wants to invalidate what she feels is your wrong choice.

QuoteThat you don't care what her opinion is?

I guess you could say that Gender is a lot more complicated than that and that God made you the way you are, She is assuming your feelings are only a choice, which means she wants to invalidate what she feels is your wrong choice.

I only care what God has to say about who I am, since he made me. So she is using science to explain what she feels God designed me to be. Not that I need her approval, rather I do think its important to respond back with science then and since I am also Christian be able to reply to her in a way that will help.

Oh I think you meant to say validate what she feels, not invalidate what she feels. Invalidate means to nullify

Quote from: ShawnTOShawnna on May 28, 2012, 10:52:41 PM
No she doesn't go to UCC she goes to Church of Christ

I just now had another person try to persuade me to see things her way in another forum. They said "In my opinion, the gender God gave you is the one your DNA supports. If you have Y chromosomes, then you are a guy" So what sort of response should I tell her?

My response would be to ignore them.

Or throw Galatians 3:28 out there and explain that gender is not important to God when it comes to eternity. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

But honestly, I would ignore them...and I would seek out a more progressive christian forum if I were you.

I can debate a fundamentalist into the ground any day but what would the point be? At the end of the day, they still think they are right...no matter the mountain of evidence to show they are wrong.