A friend, Jenny who was 'rejennyrated', and I were talking about being "stealth".  She brought up a point that being truly stealth can instill a sense of paranoia.  What if someone finds out.

So she came up with AMAP stealth. "As much as possible" stealth.  It is basically a "need to know" type of stealth.

What do you think?  Please lets not get into a hissy fit over this.

I would say one goal of transition, for some, would be to "blend in" as much as possible.

It makes sense to me.

That's what I intend to do.  Having a son, and transitioning at work will not allow me to be 100% stealth.  So...I will just do it where I can.

I guess I'm AMAP stealth. My family, my close friends, people involved in my transition, a couple other trans* folks, and quite a few family friends who knew me pre-transition know about me and are involved in my life to some degree. It's less "secret" and more "private" in the way it works in my life. It wouldn't kill me if I was outed more widely, but I'd prefer that didn't happen at present. And so far the people who know have respected my privacy on the whole.

I miss rejennyrated's posts here. She was pretty cool.

BTW  Jenny sends her regards from out in the big wide world - but hopes that you will understand that she came to realise that, as someone who has been fortunate to be female or near female for almost all her life she didnt really belong here on any permanent basis.

I came up with a goofy label for this way of living, and I've never seen the name before: As Stealth As Possible--ASAP.

I offer the following information in the spirit of kindness and sharing.

If an individual is focused on being 'stealth' then that individual is technically in transsexual head space, thinking like a transsexual.  There are times when that may be unavoidable and necessary but in my own experience the goal is to be in 'target sex' head space, thinking like one's target sex or true sex or true and established sex.

So...

Do the ground work.  Take care of paperwork.  License, birth certificate, credit, loans, mortgage or whatever...  Look inside book covers and behind picture frames.  If you own something that says you are anything other than who you know you were meant to be then if living as your true sex as fully and as functionally as possible is important to you, make sacrifices.

I am assuming your presentation is up to par.  Your voice is good.  And your sense of fashion has developed into your own personal style, one that you won't be embarrassed by six months or a year from now and you are ready to integrate into society find love and employment, carve out a niche for yourself and enjoy your male or female life (depending on whether you are male or female.

Nothing is worse (in my humble opinion) than making so much effort and sacrifice only to have people who know you transitioned outing you.  So, if being as Stealth Male or Female is important to you, don't leave your happiness in the hands of other people.  My advice once you have done all you can do is to move and get as far away from people who knew you from before as possible.  Assuming this is really important to you.

There are so many nice places to move.  Perhaps you always wanted to live in the country or in a big city or a coastal town.  I have my spot picked out and a friend of mine was talking to me the other day about how he moved to our city years ago.  He (being non-trans) had these ideas, goals... he wanted to move to such and such place and do certain things associated with this place and he did.  He accomplished his goals and then when he no longer had any goals he began drinking and hanging out with bad people.  He watched his friends die of drugs and alcoholism, watched them go to jail.  One day he realized that he needed goals and a fresh life to stay alive.  (Most settle into lives of quiet desperation, never doing what they wanted, dying with regrets rather than accomplishments).  I remembered how a long time ago when I had a small business someone said to me, "If your small business isn't growing it's dying."  My small business died.  And I realized that as people we are the same, if we aren't growing we are dying.

So.  Even non-trans people need fresh goals and need to learn and adapt or they settle down and begin the dying process.  As someone who transitioned I have found in my own life that the dying process is accelerated by people who knew me from before, people who politely or gently or rudely or aggressively nullify my womanhood because they think they know something about me which prevents them from really knowing me.

Therefore I am moving, I have to move and start over to be alive.  To truly and really be alive.

Things that helped me to realize what living really is and what is truly possible...

Zazen meditation  http://www.mro.org/zmm/teachings/meditation.php

Don Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements  http://www.miguelruiz.com/   http://www.amazon.com/The-Four-Agreements-Practical-Personal/dp/1878424319

The following will help an individual to realize that focusing on being "stealth" will lead to experiencing life like a transsexual instead of one's target gender.  It will also give one the tools that he or she needs to have the life that he or she wants/needs.  Keep in mind these are all useful tools or components to a successful transition assuming that one's goal is to live as their true sex in all ways, without acceptance, without educating, without relying on other people and their perception of you as a trans individual because the goal here (my goal) is to shed the wrong life and seize the right life, fully.  http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/08/the-law-of-attraction/

These are all tools, powerful tools.  They may even seem like magic when you experience them but they are really the icing on the cake, once you have worked hard and sacrificed to have the life you desire/need, these tools will give you the ability to go beyond what most ever accomplish with transition basics.
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/08/the-law-of-attraction/

Quote from: Arch on May 27, 2012, 03:20:36 PM
I came up with a goofy label for this way of living, and I've never seen the name before: As Stealth As Possible--ASAP.

Jenny and I like that, Arch.

Noey, I so agree.  But one can not change historical facts.

Jenny says -  Unfortunately, it wont stop those who recall your previous existence from seeing you as other. Thus there is always an element of information control involved, even for someone like me - who, without being rude, as an intersex person, came a lot closer to being natally female. So unfortunately while I agree that headspace is important in accepting oneself - it doesn't actually alter the facts, and as soon as you are having to control the information you are technically concealing aspects of your past, and thus de-facto in stealth space!

I think stealth is total ...... I am the opposite, total disclosure, so that no need to be looking  over the shoulder all the time.

I don't know about the women, but for FTMs, the term "post-op" can mean different things. At least, I've run into trans men who have had top surgery only or top surgery plus hysto and who consider themselves post-op.

I am currently as stealth as I can manage, but I suspect that I would be less secretive if I had typical equipment downstairs. On the other hand, I know that some people don't care what you look like after transition; all that matters is how you were classified at birth and raised as a kid. Nothing will change those people's minds, and I don't want to worry about how they will treat me.

So I am pretty positive that I'll never be openly trans, even after bottom surgery. But maybe I won't be so fanatical about hiding it, either. It's not like it comes up every day in casual conversation.

I make no secret of my past, but I also don't wander around with a big sign that says, 'Hi, I'm Kelly and I'm trans..' I love my family and friends way too much to ever walk away from them, so they will always be part of my life. Basically, what it comes down to for me is that I will disclose if/when it is needed, otherwise I won't say a damn thing..

 I don't know if I like stealth. Being obvious isn't the best thing ever, but hiding it is just as bad. I would rather like it if the generations to come could be out and proud of being trans - and it ain't gonna happen if the generation before them wasn't.

I think Jenny is (as always) right.
Completely stealth is almost impossible without lying about the past.

I mean, in life you will get friends and female conversations will have subjects about periods, having children, these kind of things.
You can lie about it but when someone finds out.......you're a victim of your own lies.
Most important thing is....don't be ashamed about your past, be who you are.

People will be your friend because of the person you are and not the fact that you're a male or a female.
You can always avoid questions without lying, for example if a friend is talking about the hard time she has with periods and asking how you deal with it.
You can say that it don't give you that struggles, no problem thankfully, you're not lying than and if people find out, there is nothing to be ashamed of.

Transition is the opportunity to be who you are, completely stealth with all the paranoia if someone finds out, is more some kind of an act.
I think we act long enough in life, pretending we were men who we didn't were, don't let happend the same thing now we are women.
It's only changing gender with the same lie.

I do pretty much what Kelly_aus does. Quite a few people I know now I also knew 20 years ago before I transitioned. But I don't go around advertising the fact that I am trans. If someone asks me a direct question, I will give a direct answer (has only happened once).

Earlier someone mentioned information control. It is true, I can't control what the people who are "in the know" might tell the people whom I personally haven't told. Is that information sometimes passed on behind my back? Probably. Has it ever been a problem? No, not really. Only thing is that I don't always know if someone who doesn't "officially" know has been told or not. But as I say, it's never been problem so far. People accept me as I am. Although I am sometimes curious about who knows what.

So far, I've never had to outright lie about my transsexuality. So much of my past is fully consistent with what lots of gay men experience--trying hard to be bisexual, going to sex parties, being in an open relationship, doing "guy" things with guy friends (well, okay, this makes me stand out sometimes because I don't cook or garden or decorate ).

A couple of times, I've been hard pressed to answer a question that has been posed, but I always phrase my response as the truth. So, no, I haven't had my first prostate exam; yes, I do think one of my parents suspected I was gay (except she would obviously have been thinking "lesbian"); and, no, Current Name is not my birth name (I was asked once, out of the blue, and I answered honestly).

A coworker at a previous job even found out about my past and confronted me at work. I was honest with her. She's a nice gal, but I'm glad I don't work with her anymore.

One of these days, maybe I'll slip up in a way that I can't fix or turn into a joke. I'll cross that bridge if I come to it.

Well I've come our so publicly that there is not a hope for stealth. I'm even keeping my male name as it is well known and links to my career and track record, which is important for my job.

So I go to work dressed in female attire with my still male hair and a big fat smile on my face. And woe betide anyone who goes after me, as my staff  to a person have said they love me, support me and totally accept me.

And If anyone can't accept me, I totally don't give a damn.

Cindy

The only time I ever think about whether or not I live in stealth is when I read threads like this...

H

Quote from: Cindy James on May 28, 2012, 03:29:53 AM
And If anyone can't accept me, I totally don't give a damn.
Cindy

I love that attitude, it's like I hear myself talking.

Stealth (as Northern Jane once stated) is an intermediate state between passing and assimilation.  It is a mental state, a state of consciousness, and one where the individual goes about her day consciously aware of her desire to interact with others as her true sex without the past getting in the way.  It feels forced and like work and lacks spontaneity. When an individual breaks through that phase her mental state changes to one where she is able to go about her day without concerning herself with passing or assimilating and instead her life becomes "authentic" in that her interactions and internal narrative normalize and become more spontaneous, like someone who was born with all the right parts.

I suspect that most women who transition never get past that uncomfortable "stealth" stage and instead give up on the final product, without ever really experiencing it and instead view the stealth phase as the final outcome and poo poo it and prejudice it as dishonest or superficial and vow to go no further, while making the determination that being "out" is the only way to be authentic.  But in my experience/opinion that is a poorly formed conclusion based on lack of experience and assumptions and borne primarily of cognitive dissonance.