BTW here is the "die cis scum" thing and one of the trans-identified people I'm talking about.



Hopefully it's OK to post their YouTube vid.

This whole thread has been interesting to follow, and I have wanted to add in my thoughts, but with graduation and packing I haven't even had time to properly sleep let alone form a coherent thought process.

So, instead, I will relate my personal feelings: when I frst started therapy and saw this folks on tumblr when looking for resources, I was so completely confused. However, the more I thought about it, I realized, ya know, I'm not so different. I identify as a female-bodied guy. I have breasts, I have a vagina, XX chromosomes, and no penis. That being said, I am learning to be okay and change what I can with hormones and later surgery. I don't begrudge anyone their identity and how they view themselves. A lot of great points have been made, and wonderful counterpoints that have been awesome to follow. I wish I had more time and was more awake to sit down and really break down the discussion. Now I feel like this; I am comfortable with how I identify - FTM, female-bodied, (I sometimes crudely say I am a vagina-ed dude), and I am transitioning to be seen as male. My DNA will never change, I may never be able to afford all the procedures I want, any number of things could happen. If I was non-op/ non-hormones, I would still identify like I do now. I understand that people get confused, I know I certainly did.

In the end I view it like this - if I comfortable in my identity, then how others identify should not bother me. As long as they are not actively hurting somone else, I don't care. I don't mean they say something that irritates someone else, but that they actually cause harm.

Now I am getting coffee and going to hope that any of that made any semblence of sense.

I did want to add that I have been listening to that video - the tone of the person made the point hard for me as a trans* guy - to have any sympathy. Maybe its the lack of coffee.

Quote from: Ayden on May 14, 2012, 03:51:22 PM
I did want to add that I have been listening to that video - the tone of the person made the point hard for me as a trans* guy - to have any sympathy. Maybe its the lack of coffee.

For me, it was what zie said coupled with the tone. =/  I did post a question because zie kept saying "trans-feminine" and I had no idea what it meant.  I also posted that cisgender people choose their gender as much as transgender people choose their gender.

I can understand growing rather irritated because of that stance that zie has.  I find it annoying and hypocritical.

I feel like this topic is just people getting upset about the tumblr "social justice" thing and then focusing in on other things that aren't really a problem. It is pretty stupid. This does not stop trans men from being men, it just means they are into something bigger than them that is pretty stupid, probably because it gives them a sense of community, purpose, and support. Ultimately, we should just keep in mind that it could be much worse and they could have just become Christians.

kidding, kidding... but I think it's better not to get caught up in these people. pretty much everyone is part of a tumblr social justice group and it's best simply not to take it too seriously. they could be doing worse things and anything that helps them is great.

if y'all are men, why are you so upset about tumblr "trans guys"? what about, like, actual sexists, street harassers, so called men's rights activists, etc? isn't it worse to be associated with them?

the tumblr stuff makes me really uncomfortable but I also find it pretty easy to avoid so life goes on.

Quote from: ParodyOfLife on May 12, 2012, 05:16:52 PM
You're right that everyone s responsible for their own identity, but I fear that their identity will affect how I'm seen. That makes it my business.

It's like straight girls who go around pretending to be bisexual just because guys think it's hot when they make out with their friends. Meanwhile, real lesbians are being shoved into lockers, spat on, attacked, and relentlessly bullied. Or kids who cut themselves and post pictures of it on Facebook, because they think people will feel bad for them. Meanwhile, kids who really have depression and self-injury problems are regarded as whiny, shallow attention seekers who shouldn't be taken seriously, ever. Or people who go around claiming to be Wiccan because they think it's cool and edgy and different. Meanwhile, real pagans are treated like delusional satanists.

These people who are "FTM" because they think it makes them unique, parading around and saying things like "i'm not a guy, i'm a transman! die cis scum. ->-bleeped-<- pride!". Meanwhile I have suffered with intense dysphoria since I was little and just wanna be seen as a regular guy. They will do anything they can to stand out, and they will use whatever they can to get that attention - even if it puts all of the other people associated with that in a bad position. It makes me angry.

--
im gonna make alittle more personal post to you than the last one^^ first of all I dont have tumble so I cant check up about the stuff you talk about there..

to make it all into small details..
there's this big umbrella team for being transgender.. not transexual but transgender.
which mean that words like transguy and ftm has more than 1 meaning, and more than 1 opinion.
so a ftm could be a person who had top and bottom surgery, or a person who didnt had surgery and only identifyed as male half of the time. we are human so nobody is simular and theres always exeptions, or people who isnt like ourself.

there busniss is infact not our life. its not about labels but about people being happy with themself.
We cant hate on them cause they make other choices than us.
"should I hate transpeople who choice to have bottom surgery cause everyone who ask me would think I also should have one?" "should I hate butch for being maculine and dressing as male, so people would think I just was a lesbian and not a trans?" "should I hate every macho guy for showing the steryotype on how I am suposed to be as a man?"
"should I hate mtf's for being and doing what they do, so every time I say I am trans people would belive I want to be a woman"
or "should I hate every straight transguy cause people would belive a ftm couldnt be gay then?"

I see this as being pretty usual in the trans and gay comunety but to be frank, We go no where hating on each others diffrence because someone is too stupid to notice the diffrence. this is very important to let everyone have the freedom to live like they want, without we put it all into a busniss matter. if we do so we musnt forget that our own busniss also becomes others matters and is standing in the way of other people.
on the other hand
if some people I know or seen are talking about being trans without having great experience, then I would first try to educate them and let them talk and think about it. Not everyone comes to team right away or feel they should, its not a rush after all.
+ not everyone is totally educated about those things but I feel its a good help for those who arnt.
if it turns out the person really isnt trans but just wanna be cool, or have unrealistical thought of it being trans.
(ex, once there was a girl who wanted to be a guy cause she thought gay sex would be great.)
then I would sure also educate the person on the other point, that being transexual ISN'T living in paridise and that the person really shouldn't transition.

I would do so for the persons safety. first of all being trans can bring you into alot of troubles, being expensive and even dangerous in some situations.

second is, a person really shouldnt transition or be anything there not. I dont feel good about being a girl, even when I somethimes see girls having the distributa and I for a short moment wish I was a girl.
But, people who base there dreams on such small things will get really disapointed and unhappy so I would warn them to make sure they knew what they where doing, and that it would be the best for them.

I hope you understand my 2 minded post.

btw. I love the video,
I never heard of the die cis scum, but somethimes I said so in my head when someone was pissing me off

I try to not let that kind of stuff get to me though it does effect how some people think about you. I identify as male and thats what works for me who am I to judge anyone else for making a different choice or calling themselves something else or just not being educated on terminology if thats the case. I think if more people just looked out for themselves and didn't focus to much on what other people are saying or doing than everyone would be happier.

Quote from: poptart on May 12, 2012, 05:16:52 PMThese people who are "FTM" because they think it makes them unique, parading around and saying things like "i'm not a guy, i'm a transman! die cis scum. ->-bleeped-<- pride!". Meanwhile I have suffered with intense dysphoria since I was little and just wanna be seen as a regular guy. They will do anything they can to stand out, and they will use whatever they can to get that attention - even if it puts all of the other people associated with that in a bad position. It makes me angry.

So this post is from a while ago, but I have to respond to it.

With the exception of the term 't**nny', which I won't use (except in the modified forms '->-bleeped-<--boy'/'->-bleeped-<-boi', but even that's rare), as it's a term directed towards CAMAB trans people and it's not my place as a CAFAB trans person to reclaim it, the example 'what not to do' sentence is...basically something I would say. And have said, many times, though never all at once.

I suffer from intense dysphoria. I've become a shut-in because of it. I get nervous breakdowns whenever I hear anybody refer to my parts as 'female', and that happens a f**king LOT. I would basically sell my soul to be CAMAB (though with better genetics than what I've got now...I'm not female, but I'm feminine, and despite everyone being all like "oh well you don't have to look a certain way to be feminine not all guys like that are super andro you don't need a certain body type to be all that!", I just want to look a certain way, is that a f**king crime now or something? and if I took T with my genetics, I wouldn't get that, and if I was CAMAB with my genetics, I still probably wouldn't get that, but because T effects CAFAB people differently to how it effects CAMAB ones I'd have a marginally better chance).

I'm non-binary identified. I consider myself a 'demiboy'-if gender was a spectrum with F on one end and M on the other, I'd be a teeeeeeeeeeeeensy bit on the M side, but almost in the middle. Thus, I'm not a guy, I'm trans, and slightly closer to 'guy' than otherwise.

And I support Die Cis Scum, because of reasons that I don't have the time to explain right now when I've got heaps of other things to do. It's connected to the dysphoria, yes-because cis people get to be born without dysphoria, and then they're obnoxious enough to ruin our lives more? Who the hell decided THAT was a good idea?! But I'll probably write more in the morning.

And yes, I'm proud of being trans, because I prefer the perspective it gives me to the one I had when I perceived myself as female-even through the everyday hell of dysphoria.

And whenever anybody uses that to go "OH, YOU AREN'T REALLY TRANS, LET US NORMAL PEOPLE BE TRANS AND GO RUN AWAY BACK TO YOUR HOLE YOU CIS-FEMALE FREAK, YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T HAVE DYSPHORIA AS BAD AS MINE OR ANYTHING, YOU'RE JUST A STUPID FAKE!", I...I don't know a way to describe my reaction that wouldn't possibly trigger the hell out of a reader. It's not a particularly nice one.

So yes.

I. Am. Not. A. Fake.