Ok let me start out by saying what I think it refers to and what i am attracted to and what I would not want.

I think (without knowing anything about it really) it refers to a style of clothing whether your male or female in the body, that in fact your trying to pass as a 3rd gender of sorts. I also think it can mean you just prefer to wear clothing thats in between male and female. I have seen star trek next generations about a planet filled with people that wore unisex outfits and were both male and female and looked all the same for the most part. Is that correct or is it something else?

Ok personally at this time I am a gender confused person, who looks mostly male but a soft male, has been ok sometimes being male, but is unhappy having male parts and is somewhat happy about wearing feminine clothing and trying the idea of walking around full femme. (Though i think i would be wearing tshirts and jeans 90% of the time)

I am attracted to women, usually tall and strong women who are tomboys and are very earthy and rugged yet also are nice and pleasant and spiritual and understanding. But I have also been attracted to small effeminate women. I have only been attracted to 1 guy in all my life ever, and have  not ever again been attracted. he was femme looking however.

What I do not want to find out is 500 years later we are all unisex beings that look the same with not much variations. I would still be the rare person who identified themselves as female in that world(like the woman did to commander ryker). So just exactly what is Androgynous and is there and end game to all of this?

Quote from: ShawnTOShawnna on May 26, 2012, 07:10:16 PM
So just exactly what is Androgynous and is there and end game to all of this?

Wow. Great question.

I can only speak for myself. I don't want to change the world. My observation is that the binary world seems pretty happy with gender distinctions and even if we wanted to, we're not likely to change that.

The change I'd like to see is an attitude more accepting of non-binaries. When I explain to a binary that there are people who don't identify totally as male or totally as female, I hear "of course" instead of "really?"

Quote from: ShawnTOShawnna on May 26, 2012, 07:10:16 PM


I think (without knowing anything about it really) it refers to a style of clothing whether your male or female in the body, that in fact your trying to pass as a 3rd gender of sorts. I also think it can mean you just prefer to wear clothing thats in between male and female. I have seen star trek next generations about a planet filled with people that wore unisex outfits and were both male and female and looked all the same for the most part. Is that correct or is it something else?
...
What I do not want to find out is 500 years later we are all unisex beings that look the same with not much variations. I would still be the rare person who identified themselves as female in that world(like the woman did to commander ryker). So just exactly what is Androgynous and is there and end game to all of this?

First off, let me start off by saying that those who want to completely do away with the idea of gender are only a very small portion of those of us who identify as androgyne, and it certainly is not my goal. I believe gender identity is something intrinsic and ineffable, you can't take a test that identifies you as a man or woman because gender lies at such a deep place in identity that many people never even think about it.

For myself, though terms like boy and girl had meaning for me in understanding other people, those same terms had no meaning for me personally. When I did start to have a vague concept of my gender, it was only in terms of "boy" activities and "girl" activities. "Boy" activities meant I was accepted and left alone, "girl" activities meant I would be bullied mercilessly. For me, gender only had meaning insofar as how I related to others socially. So the gender identity I feel at the very heart of my being is one that is both male and female, and neither at the same time. That's the best way I can explain it.

Quote from: ShawnTOShawnna on May 26, 2012, 07:10:16 PM
I think (without knowing anything about it really) it refers to a style of clothing whether your male or female in the body, that in fact your trying to pass as a 3rd gender of sorts. I also think it can mean you just prefer to wear clothing thats in between male and female. I have seen star trek next generations about a planet filled with people that wore unisex outfits and were both male and female and looked all the same for the most part. Is that correct or is it something else?

I think androgynous means somebody doesn't look male or female, but looks in between or ambiguous.  Sometimes clothes are part of what makes somebody look like that, but it's not about the clothes, it's about the overall look.  As an androgyne, I feel like my body should be naturally androgynous on it's own (but it's not).  I suppose for some people it's a fashion statement, and it is all about the clothes (and hairstyle and makeup and whatever...).

Quote from: ShawnTOShawnna on May 26, 2012, 07:10:16 PM

What I do not want to find out is 500 years later we are all unisex beings that look the same with not much variations. I would still be the rare person who identified themselves as female in that world(like the woman did to commander ryker). So just exactly what is Androgynous and is there and end game to all of this?

I don't want that to happen either.  That would be a world in which less people are presenting as their own gender, and I want everybody to be able to present as their own gender if they want.  People would be happier and healthier that way, and the world would be less boring with more diversity visible.

Quote from: ShawnTOShawnna on May 26, 2012, 07:10:16 PM
Ok let me start out by saying what I think it refers to and what i am attracted to and what I would not want.

I think (without knowing anything about it really) it refers to a style of clothing whether your male or female in the body, that in fact your trying to pass as a 3rd gender of sorts. I also think it can mean you just prefer to wear clothing thats in between male and female. I have seen star trek next generations about a planet filled with people that wore unisex outfits and were both male and female and looked all the same for the most part. Is that correct or is it something else?

Ok personally at this time I am a gender confused person, who looks mostly male but a soft male, has been ok sometimes being male, but is unhappy having male parts and is somewhat happy about wearing feminine clothing and trying the idea of walking around full femme. (Though i think i would be wearing tshirts and jeans 90% of the time)

I am attracted to women, usually tall and strong women who are tomboys and are very earthy and rugged yet also are nice and pleasant and spiritual and understanding. But I have also been attracted to small effeminate women. I have only been attracted to 1 guy in all my life ever, and have  not ever again been attracted. he was femme looking however.

What I do not want to find out is 500 years later we are all unisex beings that look the same with not much variations. I would still be the rare person who identified themselves as female in that world(like the woman did to commander ryker). So just exactly what is Androgynous and is there and end game to all of this?

"Androgenous" as I use it is best summed up as:

1. being both male and female; hermaphroditic.
2. having both masculine and feminine characteristics.
3. having an ambiguous sexual identity.
4. neither clearly masculine nor clearly feminine in appearance.

Androgeny can encompass a wide variety of persons, identifications, and styles.

We're versatile 

Quote from: ShawnTOShawnna on May 26, 2012, 07:10:16 PM
and end game to all of this?

End game? What? Being oneself suddenly has to include an end game?
I want to take over the world, but that has nothing what-so-ever to do with gender and I certainly wouldn't be picky about the genders of potential minions. Or anyone else for that matter.
I don't think there is any one way to be an androgyne same as there is not any one way to be male or any one way to be female. Or any one way to be anything.

Quote from: ShawnTOShawnna on May 26, 2012, 07:10:16 PM
What I do not want to find out is 500 years later we are all unisex beings that look the same with not much variations. I would still be the rare person who identified themselves as female in that world(like the woman did to commander ryker). So just exactly what is Androgynous and is there and end game to all of this?

if androgynes were to take over the world, i think the diversity would be even greater than ever before
being androgyne doesn't mean that you want to have an androgynous gender representation, at least not for all of us

i, for one, would like to change very often between around... 5 different gender representations, depending on my mood
there is no end game for me
i can't imagine being forced to stay androgynous for the rest of my life no more than i want to stay either male or female. all of them are boxes that we shouldn't need

End game? No, I'm not in any kind of mission to create people that are androgynes or something. I don't think that one could do this anyway, since it's not a choice. It might make my own life easier.

OTOH, I think we have gone to a place where styles a lot of more androgynous than the used to be. There are styles like ball caps, waist packs, running shoes, etc etc that are unisex (and multigenerational). I took a design class where they said that design would go to more unisex and more multigenerational. He has been right about this, from what I see.

I wonder if the Star Trek episode you're thinking (and I recall which one!) of was using that concept.


--Jay Jay

First is very important to separate androgynous and androgyne. As one is an expression and one is an identity and the first is not necessarily an expression of the second.

Some Androgynes present unisex, some go for anti-gender, but most seem to mix and match. My 'expression' is a little more of a collage, collecting from lots of of different timezones and notions from different genders as well as those held in common with both. It's more of a scrapbooking, messy hodgepodge than a sleek, cold androgynous or unisex approach.

I personally think there is an endgame for the androgyne, in as much as there is any endgame in life (because life is not a story or narrative, and never will be, we all leave unfinished). That endgame is self acceptance, my aim is not to have an 'expression' because I am being authentic to myself. This is an endgame with no actual end, but as I said before, I don't think life is like that.