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Between 6 and 12 months after beginning treatment

Started by Dominick_81, May 31, 2012, 12:31:10 PM

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Dominick_81

I was searching online to see when changes should happen on T and when you should be passing. It says between 6 and 12 months after beginning treatment. Now I know it's different for everyone. But this is the time frame here for passing on T.

I just don't understand that after being on T for a year and 4 months I still don't pass and I look exactly the same as I did pre-T. Am I gonna change on T?

I know there are a few guys like me who still don't pass over a year on T, but do you look exactly the same as you did pre-T?

Is something wrong here? Should I be concerned if I'm not passing by the 2 year mark?

Here's the website where I found this info: http://www.ehow.com/how-does_5217285_long-ftm-testosterone-changes-_.html
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dalebert

Have you asked your doctor if there could be some other problem like androgen resistance?

Jayr

If I were you, I'd find another doctor, trans friendly and ask him his opinion and to run a couple tests on you.
Just get another opinion, maybe your current doctor did something wrong, i don't know.

Have you looked at pictures side by side? From before and now.
Joey thought she hadn't changed one bit, once she saw her before and after, it was clear she had changed a whole lot.

Also, I don't believe it's all up to T to make you pass.
You need to walk the walk as well.

I'm pre-T and I pass a lot when I go out now.
Before only with appearance I could not pass to save my life.
But then I worked on everything. The way I walk, talk, my manners, my movements,
my attitude...Everything. And I pass.

We were raised as chicks, so we have to work on getting that out of our systems,
and act like we've never been exposed to all that.

Passing isn't just taking a shot or a pill.
It's mastering everything.






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Dominick_81

Quote from: dalebert on May 31, 2012, 12:32:50 PM
Have you asked your doctor if there could be some other problem like androgen resistance?

No, I haven't asked her. If I do have androgen resistance, are there test to find that out?

Quote from: Jayr on May 31, 2012, 12:51:33 PM
If I were you, I'd find another doctor, trans friendly and ask him his opinion and to run a couple tests on you.
Just get another opinion, maybe your current doctor did something wrong, i don't know.

Have you looked at pictures side by side? From before and now.
Joey thought she hadn't changed one bit, once she saw her before and after, it was clear she had changed a whole lot.

Also, I don't believe it's all up to T to make you pass.
You need to walk the walk as well.

I'm pre-T and I pass a lot when I go out now.
Before only with appearance I could not pass to save my life.
But then I worked on everything. The way I walk, talk, my manners, my movements,
my attitude...Everything. And I pass.

We were raised as chicks, so we have to work on getting that out of our systems,
and act like we've never been exposed to all that.

Passing isn't just taking a shot or a pill.
It's mastering everything.



I don't know any other endo doctors. Can I go to my regular doctor or does it have to be an endo doctor? What kind of  tests do they do to find out if T is working or not?

Yeah, I've looked at pics side by side... I look exactly the same. Everyone tells me that too.

T alone should be able make me pass 100%. I don't want to have to keep my hair short just to get a passing. I wanna grow my hair out long again. I see trans guys who have long hair and pass 100% and some are very feminine but they still pass as male 100%.

I'm so angry that I've been on T for this long and I'm still not passing.






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wheat thins are delicious

puberty takes more than a year and a few months.  When my brother started puberty he was about 14, he's 18 now and still changing, so keep that in mind.  Plus your body will continually grow and change throughput life.

If you aren't seeing the results you want maybe it's time to re-examine your desire to stay on T, because I know from past posts that you are very concerned about hair loss, and I believe you have even said that the only reason you stay on T is to keep your period from coming.


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Jayr

Call your regular doctor and ask him about it.
I'm pretty sure he/she could do it. Ask if your t levels are at a normal male range.
And hope that they aren't because if they are at a normal range and you've had no changes,
I have NO idea what could be happening with you.

I've had blood work done at the hospital before,
and my family doctor would get all the results and check everything.
That must include hormones.

And I understand wanting long hair and everything.
I'm just saying some of us have to do that extra step to pass.
For some it's either you pass but get rid of those feminine traits you enjoy having;
or you don't pass but get to keep those traits.
It sucks, but it's true.

Keep us updated by the way please.
I'm curious to know what's going on.
o:





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bojangles

QuoteAlso, I don't believe it's all up to T to make you pass.
You need to walk the walk as well.

This.

Sometimes we have to ask ourselves what it is we really want.
When you know that, if you want it enough, you'll be willing to make sacrifices for it.
If not, you likely will not be having it. That's how reality has shaped up for me, anyway.

I originally had looks and mannerisms that were so boyish my family acted ashamed of me. I resisted changing that until it became important (safe) to blend in better. Transistion gave me the opportunity to return to the original me (only better), but it took practice to unlearn her and relearn him.  The point to all that is that we can learn just about anything we have a mind to. Puberty is about figuring ourselves out, trying on new ideas and deciding who we want to be. We are lucky to have a second chance at it. Make it count. It ain't about what anybody else has. It's about what you're willing to do to achieve your dream.
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Dominick_81

Quote from: Andy8715 on May 31, 2012, 09:35:01 PM
puberty takes more than a year and a few months.  When my brother started puberty he was about 14, he's 18 now and still changing, so keep that in mind.  Plus your body will continually grow and change throughput life.

If you aren't seeing the results you want maybe it's time to re-examine your desire to stay on T, because I know from past posts that you are very concerned about hair loss, and I believe you have even said that the only reason you stay on T is to keep your period from coming.

I'm check with my doctor to see why I haven't changed and what she can do about it. If she can't do anything, I'll stop T, but I'll  be very unhappy b/c I'm not achieving what of getting that desire look that I want.

Quote from: Jayr on June 01, 2012, 03:01:20 AM
Call your regular doctor and ask him about it.
I'm pretty sure he/she could do it. Ask if your t levels are at a normal male range.
And hope that they aren't because if they are at a normal range and you've had no changes,
I have NO idea what could be happening with you.

I've had blood work done at the hospital before,
and my family doctor would get all the results and check everything.
That must include hormones.

And I understand wanting long hair and everything.
I'm just saying some of us have to do that extra step to pass.
For some it's either you pass but get rid of those feminine traits you enjoy having;
or you don't pass but get to keep those traits.
It sucks, but it's true.

Keep us updated by the way please.
I'm curious to know what's going on.
o:


MyT levels have always been at a normal male range. I thought that's how it's supposed to be? In the beginning it was high and my doctor had to lower it. She raised it up a little b/c the T was running low by the second week.  I'm due for a T level check this month. Should I be getting anything else tested?

Quote from: bojangles on June 01, 2012, 08:54:01 AM
This.

Sometimes we have to ask ourselves what it is we really want.
When you know that, if you want it enough, you'll be willing to make sacrifices for it.
If not, you likely will not be having it. That's how reality has shaped up for me, anyway.

I originally had looks and mannerisms that were so boyish my family acted ashamed of me. I resisted changing that until it became important (safe) to blend in better. Transistion gave me the opportunity to return to the original me (only better), but it took practice to unlearn her and relearn him.  The point to all that is that we can learn just about anything we have a mind to. Puberty is about figuring ourselves out, trying on new ideas and deciding who we want to be. We are lucky to have a second chance at it. Make it count. It ain't about what anybody else has. It's about what you're willing to do to achieve your dream.

T at this point should had made me pass/change me within the first 6-12 months and it didn't. Something is wrong here. I don't have feminine mannerisms to me. It's the T, it's not working. If I'm not changed by December, I think I might go off T and be miserable.

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wheat thins are delicious

Quote from: Dominick_81 on June 01, 2012, 03:56:18 PM

T at this point should had made me pass/change me within the first 6-12 months and it didn't. Something is wrong here. I don't have feminine mannerisms to me. It's the T, it's not working. If I'm not changed by December, I think I might go off T and be miserable.


I'm sorry but it's not supposed to have done anything by a certain time.  Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.  It's largely, if not solely up to genetics.  My advice is to find a good therapist to help you work through your issues self-image issues especially with regards to what your expectations were and how to view the medical transition process in a more realistic light.


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Dominick_81

Quote from: Andy8715 on June 01, 2012, 04:48:40 PM
I'm sorry but it's not supposed to have done anything by a certain time.  Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.  It's largely, if not solely up to genetics.  My advice is to find a good therapist to help you work through your issues self-image issues especially with regards to what your expectations were and how to view the medical transition process in a more realistic light.

From what I see on YouTube I should look different. I know everyone is different from what Jayr just said about how your not supposed to be in the normal male range  and I have all this time  means something is right... Right?

I see a counselor but like everyone else, I still look the same, with not a whole lot of changes.
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Arch

Quote from: Dominick_81 on June 01, 2012, 03:56:18 PM
I don't have feminine mannerisms to me. It's the T, it's not working.

A lot of factors go into how people read you. Height, weight, body type, proportion of body parts to one another, hand/arm position (close to body =  read as female), eye contact, hand gestures, speech patterns, vocal volume, posture, and so on. The little things tend to add up, and people unconsciously use them to locate you in one category or the other. It's more than just mannerisms; it's the whole package, if you'll pardon the pun.

As for mannerisms, many CIS MEN have one or more that people typically read as female; it's just that the other factors combine to outweigh the "female" characteristics. But let's assume that what you say is true: you haven't a single mannerism that is typically read as female. Yet you posted a video some months ago and seemed to be speaking very softly and tentatively. You didn't project very much confidence. I'm not stupid enough to say that attitude is everything, but I know that most spectators will read those characteristics as female.

You also say that you don't want to post pix and videos that show more of your body and your way of carrying yourself. You have said that you are self-conscious about your shape or your weight, I believe. What if those characteristics are holding you back? It's not all about testosterone. Some guys have more trouble being read as male until they achieve a particular fat-to-muscle ratio, for instance. T often helps guys to lose fat and gain muscle, but we often have to help that process along.

Whether people are reading mannerisms or other characteristics or a combination, you clearly have some attributes that tip the balance. For instance, if you're a typical FTM, you have bodily characteristics--some of them might be quite subtle all by themselves--that add up in the wrong ways. Some physical effects take a long time to achieve on T--longer than a year to fully complete, even on a "full" dose--and some other characteristics are up to you.

If you want reasonably honest advice about how you come across, it would be very helpful if you could provide more data. Your face looks 100% boy to me, but I wonder about everything else. I wouldn't want to post videos myself, but maybe you can use the Just for Us FTM section.

BTW, if you don't take dosage into effect, you ought to. I have a friend who says it took him a good year and a half, and he was on a "full" dose for the entire time. And another friend, my good buddy, is still read as female sometimes, and he has been on T for nearly three years. But guess what? For most of that time, he was on a low dose, just as you have been.

In addition, he is short, his voice is tenor, he is black (so his facial hair doesn't stand out very well), and he has some femmy hand gestures and vocal characteristics. He has gained some weight in the past year--fat, not muscle--and the effect has been somewhat feminizing. His face looks fuller, for one thing.

So you are not the only one.

In the end, you will do what you need to do. If you want to quit, then quit. At least the hair loss should stop. But please recognize that your 6-12-month timetable is very limited and misleading, and try to take all the factors into consideration. And let us help. We would like to, but you don't give us many good opportunities. We don't really know what other people see.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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Nygeel

Over a year and a half here and I'm still not seen as male much but I know I see major changes. People on here have mentioned seeing changes in you, it's likely that you don't see the changes yourself.
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Dominick_81

@Arch: But what about gay men who act girlie? They are seen as a total man. Even if I did have feminine mannerisms to me then I should be seen as a gay male, ya know?

QuoteYou also say that you don't want to post pix and videos that show more of your body and your way of carrying yourself. You have said that you are self-conscious about your shape or your weight, I believe. What if those characteristics are holding you back? It's not all about testosterone. Some guys have more trouble being read as male until they achieve a particular fat-to-muscle ratio, for instance. T often helps guys to lose fat and gain muscle, but we often have to help that process along.


Yeah, I'm not very comfortable posting videos just yet. I wanna wait until I'm more comfortable with myself.  T made me stockier. I can see guys bulk up, not fat or anything, but T just made them bigger.  My endo doctor has told me the fat has redistributed in my stomach, and it has also redistributed in my face too, which is why my face looks fatter.

I don't really work out, but I have been taking my dog for walks and trying to eat better.



QuoteBTW, if you don't take dosage into effect, you ought to. I have a friend who says it took him a good year and a half, and he was on a "full" dose for the entire time. And another friend, my good buddy, is still read as female sometimes, and he has been on T for nearly three years. But guess what? For most of that time, he was on a low dose, just as you have been.

What do you mean take dosage into effect? Wow, that sucks to be read as female 3 years on T.

I can pass as male to people once they know up front that I am male. But when someone doesn't know I'm male, I get female, like they can't tell if I'm male or female but they go with female instead of male.

Aren't my T levels supposed to be at a normal male range?


@Nygeel: Sorry your still getting read as female most of the time, I know it sucks.

The only changes I've seen in myself are fat redistribution and body hair and that's what others have seen too. My voice is still too high. I want it to drop more. People still recognize my voice over a year and only tell me it's got'n a little deeper. My friend mother who hasn't seen me in over 5 years still thinks I look exactly the same, just stockier.

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Dominick_81

Quote from: Casey on June 01, 2012, 10:22:16 PM
maybe your endo means you're in the lower range for male? Because the "normal" spectrum is quite large.

I feel for you though. Let's be honest, all of us go into T hoping to have the best results possible, so to have that not happen is pretty gutting. I hope that things get better for you soon. I saw one guy on Youtube and I think it took him a good year and a half before he really passed, so you never know.

I'm also trying to remember your accent...I know next to nothing about the US and the parts of the US, but I do know that I've heard a lot of women, with your accent or one similar, who fall into the lower range. So that might be a part of it, interestingly enough.

@Casey: I'm not sure. I think she meant my T levels were in the normal male range.

"I hope that things get better for you soon."


Thanks Casey.

Wow, really? A good year and a half? That sucks it took so long.

I don't think my voice has changed since the last time I posted a voice clip, but I'll post another tomorrow.

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wheat thins are delicious

Also I wanted to say, a phrase that gets thrown around a lot in the trans community is ""T will do great things for you" or "man, your gonna pass so good when you get on T."  That phrase implies that T is going to instantly be a godsend and work wonders on wonders when in actuality no one knows what T is going to do for a particular individual, and that coupled with seeing vids of guys who had great genetics make for a lot of angst and worry because they aren't passing a relatively short amount of time in.


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Arch

#15
Quote from: Dominick_81 on June 01, 2012, 10:14:54 PM
@Arch: But what about gay men who act girlie? They are seen as a total man. Even if I did have feminine mannerisms to me then I should be seen as a gay male, ya know?

Unless a trans guy has been fantastically lucky in the morphology department, these gay guys have huge physical advantages over us. Plus, if you're talking about a full-blown man, even a 21-year-old, he's had years of puberty, PLUS the physical advantages he started out with.

I think we all compare ourselves to cis guys--how can we not? But the trick is in knowing when to stop.

QuoteWhat do you mean take dosage into effect?

Guys on a lower dose will, on average, take longer to see the same changes that another guy has on the "standard" dose. For all I know, the standard dose is too high by far, but I'm sure that the masculinization estimates you're reading are based on a significantly higher dose than you've been getting. I don't know what your dose is now, and I don't want to run afoul of the TOS, so I will leave it at that.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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Dominick_81

@Andy8715: Yeah, I hear that a lot and I assumed when I took T that eventually it will happen. Actually, I thought it would happen in the first few months, but for it didn't.

@Arch: I'm talking about trans men. I've seen some gay trans men on youtube and they pass 100%.

Oh, okay, I see now about the dosage thing. What's TOS?
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LordKAT

TOS - Terms of service or rules for this site
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Felix

I passed pretty well before T, but that was when I was 29 and 30 and I didn't pass as the age I was. I've been on T since December, and my voice dropping is the only game-changing effect I've had so far. Pre-T, I started passing better when I went from a mohawk to short hair, when I learned to cut my "sideburns" straight across, and when I started shaving off the peachfuzz. Probably different tactics work for everybody.
everybody's house is haunted
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