Okay, so I had a friend help me find some pretty amazing clothes to choose from when I'll order my first full female outfit, probably this summer. It was all on Yesstyle.ca, which is Asian clothes. I'm a big fan of Asian things in general, and let's admit it, they have a lot of really nice (and cheap) items. So I was all thrilled and almost ready to order, when I realised that I should get my body measurements to make sure I don't order something that can't possibly fit.

So I bought a mesuring tape, and my shoulders, even though I'm not 100 % sure of the exact measurement because self-measuring them is quite a challenge, at 44 cm = 17.3 in, are way above even the male average for my height (165 cm), forget about women's average... and don't even think about average Asian women, for whom those clothes are tailored in the first place. So even if I'm off by a whooping 5 cm = 1.96 in, it's still hard.

Those clothes averaged 33 cm = 13 in shoulder widths, with a maximum at only 35 cm = 13.8 in, and a minimum at 28(!) cm = 11 in... By looking very randomly at some tops, sometimes in the plus-size section even though I'm neither especially tall nor very fat (well I do find myself fat but my BMI is in the high-end area of healthy weight so I shouldn't need a plus-size in theory), and I did find some close measures that might fit, at around 38 cm = 15 in or 40 cm = 15.7 in, but 1. they are pretty rare, 2. I have yet to see an actual fit and 3. the probability of me finding one that fits and I that I do like is low, especially since there isn't an advanced search function.

So~ after that long introduction, I would like to ask you for advice. Because I'm sort of depressed about this. I was really hoping that I was seeing broad shoulders but they really weren't so bad. And if I'm having trouble find clothes as well... I mean, my friend has shoulders about the same size as mine and says she can wear Large clothes pretty well, but she's 180 cm = 5'11 tall... which means I'd sort of look like a ghost in those long clothes.

1. Do you know of a way to effectively measure my shoulders myself and make sure I have the right measurement? Every guide I saw was measured by someone else (understandable). And I'm talking about a clothing measurement (bone edge to bone edge), eh, not the wall measurements that bodybuilders do.

2. Can you suggest other good clothing websites than Yesstyle.ca? I might find better fitting items if it's not Asian. Of course, it must either be Canadian or ship to Canada for reasonable costs. Oh, and before you mention it, I did hear about Amazon having clothes, however the Canadian store doesn't. And from the looks of it, the clothes on Amazon.com are expensive and don't give detailed size information to begin with.

3. Do you have tips for fitting clothes on a broad-shouldered but relatively short person? It looks like most members my height or shorter have smaller shoulders as well...

Additional information:

Quote
Shoulders: 44 cm = 17.3 in
Chest: 88 cm = 34.6 in (actually that's the "breast" measurement, but I don't have breasts to speak of)
Waist: 82 cm = 32.3 in (it's actually a little smaller, probably, since I didn't measure it in the morning like I should)
Hips: 93.5 cm = 36.8 in

Height: 165 cm = 65 in = 5'5"
Weight: 65 Kg = 143.3 lb
BMI: 23.88

Man, this post was so much unit conversion. Use the metric system already, United States. D:

I have exactly the same shouder measure as you, but I'm a bit taller (1.74 cm) and slimmer (58 kilos), so they probably look different than yours. I'm quite self-conscious about that, and given that I'd LOVE to wear something that allows me to show them a bit (kind of like Lisa Hannigan with her beautiful clavicles) I pray for HRT to make them a bit smaller, as I have quite a bit of muscle in that area. I have found some really cute dresses on urbanoutfitters.com and anthropologie, amongst others, and you can always try amazon US if you don't mind importing charges and stuff like that. Asus might be expensive, but if you search a little bit you might find online stores that ship to you that you like. Do some reasearch, might be well worth it!


I have done some research and have found out that you are far from being alone in those respects. Check this out: http://caloriecount.about.com/forums/health-support/average-shoulder-width-woman-whats 

I also have found out that I might be ectomorphic  I mean, it's really weird that I'm closer to that 34-24-34 utopia than most girls that I know... so, whatever...

I found out after spending too much money on stuff that didn't look good on me that it's important to know your overall body shape. I'm an apple shape, so i have a large upper torso and wide shoulders. Once you know your body shape then it's possible to look for clothes that work with that shape. Clothes you see advertised online are all on stick thin models and do not look good on most everyone else.

When I was obessing about my shoulders and other bits I looked around and found tanners index of androgyny. Its al about proportions and sizes etc.

Umm, I was under the impression that the female average was in the 15-18" range and male was in the 20-22" range.

I think you're interpreting yesstyle's info wrong??

The shoulder measurement on their site basically shows where the sleeves begin. But that's the garment's shoulder length... Usually when you take your shoulder measurement, you measure to the outside of the shoulder... so you would get a longer personal measurement than the garment's measurement even though it would still fit.



When I measure just across the top I get 13" but when I measure all the way out to the edge of the shoulder (wrapping around slightly) I get 16-17"... just a thought.

If you're really worried though, avoid sleeves. 

Elena G: Urbanoutfitters.com says:

Quote
Due to the Charter of the French Language, we are unable to offer our website to the province of Quebec, at this time. Urban Outfitters continues to improve on its availability globally, and we will be investigating the addition of a bilingual site to accommodate our French-speaking customers.

We value your continued support as a customer and apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. Alternatively, please come visit us!

...I guess the right word is "owned".

As for Anthropologie, it looks a little, well, overpriced... But thanks anyway.

riven1: That's precisely why I liked that they had precise measurements for every part. With a little imagination (and my friend who's really good with fashion), I think I can quite easily figure out what would suit me and what wouldn't.

Siobhan: Could you explain further or give me a link? I couldn't find anything about this.

pretty: Well, I did the measurement from bone to bone, and passing on the neck... which isn't really -total- shoulder width, but rather... exactly where the sleeves begin. As shown in this short video, actually:

There is a possibility that being my own back, I made a mistake, but I don't think there can be a huge difference... I really did feel for the ends of the bones. I do wish that they're not actually that broad, but that sounds a little too optimistic to me.

Those average widths... I really don't think they're right. Whilst searching for average shoulder widths (which I never got rock-hard info for, but only this page as well as another saying that an average healthy woman wore size 8 in the US), I fell on this on a page for male bodybuilders. Mind you, it said to measure by putting their back against a wall and making marks with a ruler put on the side of each shoulder, which is probably, for me, ~5 cm ≈ 2 in more than a clothing measurement like I did:

Quote
That horizontal measurement (which includes both deltoids), in inches and fractions of inches, is your shoulder width.

The average man in the United States is 5-foot 10-inches tal, and weighs 172 pounds. His shoulder width is 18-1/4 inches.

Using that as a starting number, if your shoulder width is approximately 18-1/4 inches . . . then, your shoulder width is AVERAGE or NORMAL.

A little bit goes a long way in shoulder width . . . 20-inch-wide shoulders look significantly broader than average shoulders; 21-inch shoulders will get plenty of attention; 22-inch shoulders will draw stares from almost everyone; 23-inch shoulders are super heroic and will get you a ticket on the front row of Mr. Olympia contests; and 24-inch shoulders are as rare as a 500-pound overhead press.

Source: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/wider_realman_shoulders

So unless they're really mistaken in their numbers (but as muscle freaks they shouldn't be, right?) I'm probably way over the male average... Especially since the average (American) male is 70 in = 178 cm tall. So adding the ~5 cm of muscle, my shoulder width would be 49 cm = 19.3 in, just above the male average... for men 13 whole centimeters taller than me, that is!

Unless the fact of passing on the back's curve compensates it, in which case I stay at 44 cm = 17.3 in, which, considering my height, is probably a pretty average number for a male.

As for avoiding sleeves... For one, sleeves are useful for, you know, not freezing (I'm constantly freezing) and it would sort of be a shame to buy a nice top only to put one of my ugly sweaters on top. Also, I'm -so- not keen on showing any more skin than necessary.

The outfit I'm considering right now would be cropped pants with a short- or 3/4-sleeved shirt, and that's really as far as I'll get for a first outfit. I hate my shoulders, so I really don't want to show them. Prude and complexed, yep, that's me.

@A:

Hmm, I don't know then. You might just have to bear with being a little big in the shoulder  maybe you will just have to let your shoulder fill out the sleeve a little bit, if you want sleeves.

I don't know, just when I google around I find stuff like http://caloriecount.about.com/forums/weight-loss/shoulder-width where it seems like the range is not so tiny for women?

Anyway mine are 16" measured like the woman in the video and shoulder width has not been a big problem in fitting... though I do steer clear of things that will make my shoulders look *too* wide, because I do wish they were a bit smaller.

You could maybe look to shop somewhere that offers tall sizes 

14 inch shoulders here and even I think I have linebacker shoulders. I think all trans women fear this.

Quote from: GhostTown11 on June 08, 2012, 04:47:27 PM
14 inch shoulders here and even I think I have linebacker shoulders. I think all trans women fear this.

Definitely...

Personally, I reassure myself whenever I get worried about those things by comparing to my sister... her shoulders are as wide as mine, same height, same shoe size, all that. So maybe as a cis girl, it would have been the same deal anyway 

It's not THAT weird for cis girls to have pretty wide shoulders... at least in contrast to their hips... you see it a lot.

Exactly. And  my hip bones are wider than my shoulders which is weird but at least it's a plus!

Lol, GhostTown, that kind of thing is not even so common in cis females. Just die. XD

Anyway, pretty... Tall sizes, yeah. But I'm not tall. ^^'

Quote from: A on June 08, 2012, 05:05:25 PM
Lol, GhostTown, that kind of thing is not even so common in cis females. Just die. XD

Anyway, pretty... Tall sizes, yeah. But I'm not tall. ^^'

A good idea would be to ask your mom and sister to let you measure their shoulder width. Just tell them you need a point of comparison and what sizes they were since they are your closest female relatives. Oh btw you said that store was Asian right?well I think I remember a teacher telling me that in Japan that for men and women they're clothiers sizing is one less than ours so a small in men is a medium there and a small in womens is a medium there. That could be why they have smaller measurements.

I guess. However I don't live with them and don't actually see them so often, so I might have to ask a clerk. A little embarassing though for some reason. "Hi there measure my shoulders". ^^'

Quote from: A on June 08, 2012, 05:05:25 PM
Lol, GhostTown, that kind of thing is not even so common in cis females. Just die. XD

Anyway, pretty... Tall sizes, yeah. But I'm not tall. ^^'

Ooh *reads old posts*, sorry. I thought you were taller for some reason. 

Well, barring all that I'd say... it's all about the cut. No prudish crew or turtle necks! 
Maybe like a nice V neck? That's flattering. Is it REALLY cold there?

It's not like stuff isn't gonna fit, it's just not gonna fit perfectly. But that's the case for pretty much every girl out there in some way or another. Your main concern would probably be covering up the appearance of wide shoulders...

Anyway this all speaks to the benefit of being able to try things on in person. 

Quote from: GhostTown11 on June 08, 2012, 04:55:49 PM
Exactly. And  my hip bones are wider than my shoulders which is weird but at least it's a plus!

That's lucky Apparently mine are 15" across so a little narrower. 

(Heh, I actually said my height twice in the post~ oblivious~)

Uhm, I'd never wear a v-neck; not now anyway. I was looking into boat necks like this.
http://www.yesstyle.com/en/efashion-inset-striped-t-shirt-drape-front-top-pink-one-size/info.html/pid.1030743623

Well, for now... I just hope I measured wrong.

In any case, do y'all have further suggestions of shopping sites? I barely pass (and only with a coat and scarf). I can excuse girl's jeans with my butt and girl's shoes with my short feet, but a top is hard to pull off. ^^'

Omg I love that shirt! *whips out credit card* and so affordable too. I am going to have fun this summer

Thief. D:

Oh and pretty, it's not that it's cold. It's actually an average to cold day at 22 °C. I'm just always freezing. ~

I do like their jeans but damn they must make them for girls with a straight shape! 30 inch hips is small even on a boy :p!

I have seen some attractive and cute girls with "manish" builds - small butts and wide shoulders. From the back you'd think that they were a boy. Women truly do come in all shapes and sizes, so learn to work with what you've got, emphasize what's good and hide what's not. The same as all females do, actually.

Google "apple shaped body" to read up on dos and don'ts for our shape.

Quote from: A on June 08, 2012, 06:11:42 PM
(Heh, I actually said my height twice in the post~ oblivious~)

OMG you did  I totally even looked back to check but I have a bad habit of skimming!