I mean indefinitely.

Eh, there's Wild Flower who seems to be planning such a thing, I believe.

In any case, if you're thinking of such a thing for yourself, I would suggest making talking to a therapist a priority. It's not like there's anything fundamentally wrong with it, but such intentions, especially since you've made a decision to transition, may very well be drawn more by fear than genuine feelings... And that might end up feeling very wrong in the end.

Also, you need to consider the possible issues. I'm not going to define which might be easier, but it's not like that path will be obstacle-free. Knowing how you look (and sound), I think it's likely that you would have trouble being credible as male at some point. And when breasts come in and become obvious, it won't be easy to hide. To live as fully male, I think you might have to find just as many excuses and such as if you transitioned... And if you don't, well, it might be more of an androgynous life, which is fine too, but it's not what you mentioned.

It's only my very own opinion, but if you truly feel female inside, I think it may not be a good idea not to transition fully... Especially at your age. You have a great opportunity for a very nice start in life as a female, don't you? If you decide to take this path and later realise that it's not what you wanted, you might find yourself regretting your choice, when you have entered university and whatnot as male, or you have already started a career or such. Not that the same is impossible with the other path, but having already reflected upon transition, I guess that you already knew that.

That's why I think you should make it extra clear with your therapist. What is making you doubt? What is your gender identity, deep down? What was it that made you decide upon transition in the first place? What changed? What are your fears? What are your goals?

Of course, if you think your gender identity is more androgynous or ambiguous, then it might be a logical course of action. But even then, I would advise to talk to a gender therapist about it, because this is an important decision, too. Seeing as it seems to contradict your previous course of action, I feel that it would do you a great deal of good to deeply investigate the matter.

Oh no I wasn't talking about myself lol. My gender identity is not changing, I am not detransitioning, and I am not going to pull a Michelle Penner (may she RIP). But yeah you're totally right, I was looking at the window during my public health final (FAIL  ) and even though I had on a really tight sports bra my chest was still portruding in a definetly not male way. I asked moreso because I remember someone posting about a ts who took hormones but was not going to present female because she felt at the end of the day she knew who she was and the hormones brought her inner peace. I kind of wanted to have this segway into if you believe the hormones can bring enough mental peace that the phsycial starts to matter much less for some people.

It specifically says in WPATH that hormones might be enough for some people to make things tolerable. And yeah for some people HRT is the main thing they need to be happy, for others it's SRS or living socially as a woman, for many people it's some combination.

Lots of people. Here's the thing. As long as you understand what HRT may do to you including physical and emotional, as long as you are out to the loved ones in your life who may see changes (intimate partner, etc), what's it really matter? Why do you have to have a time frame to go full time? What if living socially as male but taking HRT makes you feel like not killing yourself, happy, less depressed, fulfilled, just-enough-for-now-stop-putting-your-SOC-timeframes-one-me, etc.? Find a medical provider that practices informed consent, explain to them where you are coming from. Maybe you want to see changes physically before you go full time? I don't know your specific situation, but there are quite a few irl people who do this with medical supervision who live happy lives. As long as you do your research, are under medical supervision, etc. I don't see why you couldn't?

I'm really envious of you, you know. I have almost 4 times your time on HRT and despite that, I still don't have anything visible in that area...

Oh, and by the way, I think that it's not the most healthy thing to compress your breasts when they are growing. It might hinder growth. Instead, you might want to try shirts that are too large or something.

I know I am switching from a sports bra to one of those gym shirts that act a second skin or something, I hear those bring your chest down but dont squish anything.

Indefinitely is a bit hard to quantify. I've been doing it for 3 years now and am a good A to a B cup. I am finally proud to be in my body and out presenting as the real me in the real world whenever I can, which is most weekends. I need to do male for the $$$$.

As Meghan said, it can be an emotional roller coaster. I do have a wife/soul-mate in the middle of this that always knew about me. But we need to live apart right now because I have to work way out of state. I describe it as having 3 lives; A husband in NJ, a guy working in WV, and a woman in WV. After 3 years of it one is becoming very dominant. Going full-time means loosing the job so that is no option. Though are are times I wonder "What if.....". Conversely, at this point in my journey, loosing my job or my wife will likely lead to going full-time. For now the balancing act is working and at least one of the 3 lives is filled with joy.

Baggy dress shirts and a shaper cami keeps the girls under control at work without any of the pain that others I know complained about with those compression Tees sold for guys. If ou knew what and where to look, you can tell. Especially when I am out doing my walks and the wet tee shirt contest look dominates 

I am an individual who decided to live as male and take hormones only.  There are plenty of us around but we aren't too vocal.  The existence of TS or those with GID who can get by with just HRT tend to upset those who think complete transition is the only way.  It's not fun being called "not a real TS" because we don't transition.

I was taking E exclusively and have had an orchi.  However due to a medical disorder with my blood, I've had to stop all HRT now.  I still do my best to make due.  I can supply more details if you have specific questions.

Let's establish you are just talking about male-to-female transition.  The question is actually quite complex.

First, consider how the logistics of transition work.  In some places you must have at least 1 year of real life experience (RLE) before you can begin hormone replacement therapy (HRT).  In other places you can do RLE and HRT concurrently.  In still other places, you can start HRT before RLE.  Only in the latter situation, could one live as a "male" while on HRT.

Then there is the issue of what type of HRT.  Anti-androgens?  Estrogen?  Other meds?

The general rule of thumb is that you don't begin HRT without the desire to pursue a full transition, or at least to the RLE stage.  (Knowing some transitioners may be, for whatever reason, unable to pursue gender reassignment surgery.)

Another alternative is that of low-dose HRT.  There is a growing body of medical literature and practice, of treating gender dysphoria with one or more forms of ultra low-dose HRT.  We have several posters here who are doing this, under medical supervision, or are contemplating doing this.  As one poster here put it (IIRC), it was an attempt to "unscramble" his brain.  He was initially on AA's.

So you can see the complications.

I plan on two years of hormones, ffs and laser before I try to switch. I want to give myself the best chance of acceptance I can. I will probably move and change job at the same time.

Quote from: Bailey's Irish on June 13, 2012, 01:08:50 AM
It is commendable that some are willing to subject themselves to trial and error research, formal or otherwise, for the benefit of the rest of us and themselves. If they were unwilling to do so, we would all be constrained to the same protocol. If professionals and transgendered people fail to work together to accomplish what is wanted rather than what is predefined, progress within the community will deteriorate. I would consider this a very good step.

As a dinosaur that goes way back to the 70's I can assure you this is not trial and error research. It was taking place back then and may only be making it into medical literature now. However, there were and still are plenty of trans people taking hormones and living dual lives. Where do think those supposedly learned people got the idea from! Especially in the light of knowing how long it is taking for these same medical professionals to not consider us a bunch of mentally ill people in need of a cure

I am in that category, taking E but living as male, except in the privacy of my home and my SO.  First I dabbled in phytoestrogens, then the real thing on and off for a couple of years and finally mid last year I decided my gid was not going away so I had to deal with it.  I am now under medical supervision and started a lowish dose of E.  After 8 months my hormone results came back putting me firmly in the female range and all this on low E and without AA.  There are changes and going bare chested is now pretty much out of the question.  I am 50, very tall and have a dozen more reasons why transitioning isn't feasible for me.  I can not imagine stopping E at this point.  No-one has noticed, but I am told all the time that I look great, more relaxed, younger, thinner etc etc.   Do I wish I could transition - YES!  What the future will bring I have no idea.  I am stuck in the middle and that is not easy.  I often wake up and ask myself, WTF are you doing, but I also know that I can not ignore my GID.
Tanya

I'm in the same boat as many of the others here.  On HRT to unscramble my brain, and not intending to transition at this point.  I'm in too much debt, and have too many obligations that take greater priority for me.

I've been on HRT for almost 4 months now.  E only for 6 weeks, E + spiro since.  If you know what to look for, you may possibly realise I've got some mosquito bites happening - I'm developing a bit too well for my objectives (I'm not saying that I don't like the changes - it's just that they're happening too soon for my situation).  I'm probably going to have to talk to my endo about lowering my dosages at the next review appointment.

I have to say it's tempting to go the other way, but I'm mentally comfortable with where I'm at right now to not have to.  The ground work has been done though - electro finished, basic voice etc;

Having reached and older age I realize that no decision is either right or wrong.   Each decision we make has consequences some of which we will be happy with and some of which we will be unhappy with.   There are even times that it doesn't really matter what we chose because in the end we wind up in the same place in the end.    Now I am not talking about the decisions we make when we drive a car.   It makes a difference if we drive into the tree or we don't.    Even so in the end we do wind up dead.    Sometimes we have to look at our decisions in terms of which will we be happy with and which one we will survive to decide another day.   We can be happy, but end up crashing and burning.   We can be unhappy today.   But when the next decision comes we are alive to turn towards happiness.    I grew up in the Dakotas.    When you get stuck in a blizzard you hunker down if you have shelter.   If you don't have shelter you make sure you are bundled up tight and your scarf is wrapped around your head.   You set your course and you walk through the storm.   Not walking is not an option, because you don't survive.   There is no sadness or happiness.   If you sit down you will fall asleep and not wake up.   

I have survived by walking through my storms because my faith was my shelter.    I hunkered down.   I lived to decide another day.  Yes, I wish that along time ago, that I would have been me.   When I first realized that I was a female, when I was thirteen.   I made a choice to deal with it now which in 1959 may have well have meant death or when I got old.   I chose to deal when I got old.    Well Michelle was always there trying the best I could, and Michelle was still there when I was old.   My male world fell apart and I was left with Michelle.    Now I wish I would have dealt with it when I was younger because most of the things I was afraid would happen, happened any way.   It didn't matter.   What did matter is that I did survive to be myself.

Are decisions right or wrong.   Not in my world.   Decisions are happy or sad.   When they reach the point that I can not live with the sadness, then I have to decide again.  Then I hope the next decision will be happier, but if it isn't I keep trying until it is happier.   I guess this is the definition of an optimist.   

As far as transitioning I feel we are always transitioning in some way or another.   If HRT gives you breasts and you are self conscious about them.   The question then becomes, Can you live without them?    My guess is that you can't or you wouldn't have them.   You may have problems dealing with the femininity you have obtained.   But do you really want it to go away?  Sooner or latter you will go farther because in my world if you were really male and not female you would not be where you are now.   But then I am in my sixties and my sense of being developed in another mental and emotional dimension.   

These are just thoughts.   This is what grandmas do.   Reflect and try and pass on the lessons life has taught them.

I'm doing something like this right now (not really by choice, but I'm still living at home), and after 14 months on HRT there's no way I can pass as a guy. Besides getting boobs and hips, my cheeks and face have filled out and my eyebrows have thinned out naturally to look more feminine. Not to mention the loss of muscle.

It might be possible depending on your starting point, but I think after a year or two on HRT you'll either be seen as a woman or androgynous.

Quote from: Hannah on June 13, 2012, 11:17:54 AM
I'm doing something like this right now (not really by choice, but I'm still living at home), and after 14 months on HRT there's no way I can pass as a guy. Besides getting boobs and hips, my cheeks and face have filled out and my eyebrows have thinned out naturally to look more feminine. Not to mention the loss of muscle.

It might be possible depending on your starting point, but I think after a year or two on HRT you'll either be seen as a woman or androgynous.

This is true I think, sometimes I look in the mirror and realise im starting to look more and more girly, if it carries on I might start getting awkward questions.

I know after about 9.5 months of a full HRT regimen the only thing that makes me look male without makeup is my facial hair. If that was completely gone I don't think many people would ID me as born male. My skin has turned "milky" and it's hard to tell if I'm "wearing make up or not", in my roommates words. My jaw and chin have lost so much fat that people think my bone structure has changed when they see how I looked before (as has been told to me by 3 people so far). It's more awkward for me to go out into the world without make up (to cover up the remaining facial hair) and in boys clothes than it is to go out in the world as just a typical female.

Not everyone gets dramatic changes but I would be prepared. If you're just scared to go out as a female, keep in mind you may reach a point where you're scared to go out as a male, because you'll get more funny looks if you do!

I am also in the "taking low dose HRT but not transitioning" boat. I'm bigender and started experiencing uncontrollable wild swings between boy and girl modes, and impulses that i could not control, or were unwise (such as girl mode wanting SRS). I was clearly headed for a divorce on the path that i was headed down.

HRT calmed the swings and stopped the immediate urgency to act on those wild impulses.  Girl mode still thinks that she's MTF but i can keep her from acting on that thought, because boy mode would NOT be happy with transition.  I'm generally happy living as a boy.

I'm in the dinosaur club as well, and as an older member I have been quite surprised at the response my body has had on E (A cups and growing, more youthful appearance, etc). I have shirts that cannot be worn now without putting on a show.

The changes from HRT are the price I have to pay to keep my head on level.

S it seems like quite a few people here do the hrt but no transition thing. I definitely agree that it would be hard to present as male after a while. I mean, the little facial hair I had is gone and I have no visible Adams apple so people would have to look at my privates for the best gender cue lol. I am very surprised at the changes in my face since I always has a passable, feminine face but I look younger now than I did at 13 (I'll be 18 in a few months)! Also, ow do people go out with their breasts and present as male? Its so awkward and I feel exposed doing that now and kinda naked *blushes*