In my wandering around San Francisco yesterday and at a private concert I noticed a few trans girls, was standing next to a very tall pretty girl at the show, didn't exchange glances at all but if we had, a smile is all I usually do.

Even though we have this in common I don't think it's appropriate to walk up and start talking

Quote from: Erin_Grey on June 21, 2012, 03:36:32 PM
In general, I feel like tg people can sort of "sense" each other. Even if a girl is flawless and femme or a transguy is as dudely as they come I just know and I can tell they know too. Do you feel this way ? Like we all have some kinda transdar?

I actually feel the opposite... I'm sure I haven't been able to clock many, or perhaps even most, trans people. Because I don't notice that many at all.

Besides, you wouldn't actually know if you weren't able to tell... so you wouldn't even know you've failed to detect one...

I've only smiled at a trans person I came across on the street once. She looked away uncomfortably from me. (Not because I don't like smiling... but because the trans people I notice almost never happen to be looking at me)

Quote from: V M on June 21, 2012, 08:48:21 PM
If I see someone that I believe to be trans out in public I just smile politely as I do with anyone and not make an issue

I definitely don't want to out them or make someone uncomfortable and what if I approach them and I'm wrong? Then I've outed myself and insulted someone

As much as I'd like to meet some other trans people, I'm not going to step myself knee deep in a public bog

Which is exactly the right approach V M!

Reminds me of a couple of years ago...walking into a supermarket in Amsterdam and passing a short, blocky, barrelchested hideously pumped south american TS.
Pumped cheekbones and lips, a surgically almost  hacked away nose, pumped breasts, hideously pumped buttocks, hips and thighs...

She spotted me and asked me in strange, fake twisted 'feminine' voice: 'are you a man or a woman'?

'I was just about to ask you the very same question', I replied and she went beserk, defending she was a real woman etc....LOL!

Absolutely hilarious!

Her ideas of 'passability' and 'fysical feminity' didn't coincide with  mine for sure....being in Holland and not in South America....lol!

I think I see trans people every where, but they probably aren't. A lot people have some features that might be considered masculine and feminine.

Kate

QuoteIf I see someone that I believe to be trans out in public I just smile politely as I do with anyone and not make an issue

I definitely don't want to out them or make someone uncomfortable and what if I approach them and I'm wrong? Then I've outed myself and insulted someone

As much as I'd like to meet some other trans people, I'm not going to step myself knee deep in a public bog

I don't know about you, but I don't feel like asking someone if he/she is a trans is an insult of any kind. It's like if I ask a person with big eyebrow ridges and small eyes if they have Down's syndrome. I know what you think, and to a certain point I might do it as well, but how do you think a trans person might feel when knowing people feel offended for being mistaken for a trans? It's like acknowledging, in a way, that we're inferior to them.

I don't believe so. If you ask someone whether they're trans...

If they're trans, they will feel depressed to be reminded of their difference, as well as to know that they have been clocked.

If they're not, they will think that they look like they are trans. And looking like you are trans is a purely objectively negative thing. It's like saying: "Hey, you're ugly" or "Hey, you look like a guy". It's definitely rude.

And there's also the "none of your business" argument that stands pretty strong. You don't go asking strangers about personal stuff. Actually, you just don't address strangers for no reason, much less be nosy and impolite.

huhn, no if you see one, don't stair. Its not nice to stair at anyone anyway. Don't smile at them either, because if your with some one, they will want to know why your smiling to that person, or attract some one else's attention to that person. Nope, just look away, and act naturally, you really wouldn't like it if it were you being stared at, or smiled at in any sort of awkward way. ^^

QuoteI don't know about you, but I don't feel like asking someone if he/she is a trans is an insult of any kind. It's like if I ask a person with big eyebrow ridges and small eyes if they have Down's syndrome. I know what you think, and to a certain point I might do it as well, but how do you think a trans person might feel when knowing people feel offended for being mistaken for a trans? It's like acknowledging, in a way, that we're inferior to them.

Well its actually non of your business to be honest who or what that person is. Nor do they probably want to know what you are, or who. Would you ask a person dressed as a Fireman do they put out fires ? Thing is, if you think you know, good for you, if your not sure, its not your right to ask that person if they are a real man or a woman or trans. Please, think about it.

Quote from: A on June 22, 2012, 01:20:59 PM
I don't believe so. If you ask someone whether they're trans...

If they're trans, they will feel depressed to be reminded of their difference, as well as to know that they have been clocked.

If they're not, they will think that they look like they are trans. And looking like you are trans is a purely objectively negative thing. It's like saying: "Hey, you're ugly" or "Hey, you look like a guy". It's definitely rude.

And there's also the "none of your business" argument that stands pretty strong. You don't go asking strangers about personal stuff. Actually, you just don't address strangers for no reason, much less be nosy and impolite.

I agree with the last part, which is what, I suppose (read: hope), people should do, at least most of the time. Still, I don't think that kind of stigmatization is any good. Oh, well...

Also, @ kitty babe, I wasn't implying that I WAS asking people that, I was talking about people who do. You know, hypothetically speaking...

Quote from: Elena G on June 22, 2012, 01:08:48 PM
I don't know about you, but I don't feel like asking someone if he/she is a trans is an insult of any kind.

But it matters less whether you think it's an insult or not...
What matters more is whether the other person thinks it is or not.
Would you sit on a Qur'an in front of a Muslim just because you don't think it is insulting to anyone?
You can say all you want "I don't mean it as an insult at all" and you may really mean it, but in the end the other person still feels insulted.

Quote from: UCBerkeleyPostop on June 21, 2012, 10:20:12 PM
I avoid eye contact which seems to be "de rigeuer" in San Francisco.

LOL, seriously? Because... I don't know. I can't help BUT make eye contact with people when out on the prowl. XD

No wonder I feel so out of place in this city... >.>

Quote from: apple pie on June 22, 2012, 01:54:11 PM
But it matters less whether you think it's an insult or not...
What matters more is whether the other person thinks it is or not.
Would you sit on a Qur'an in front of a Muslim just because you don't think it is insulting to anyone?
You can say all you want "I don't mean it as an insult at all" and you may really mean it, but in the end the other person still feels insulted.

Well, there's a lot of people that feel insulted, too, if they are mistaken for an 'immigrant'. You can get whacked for doing so where I live, for example. So you can never ask a person where are they from because you will probably offend them, or get crushed. Sooner or later, everything is gonna offend anyone and we'll always f*****g be politically correct forever. This is specially surprising coming from this message board, but again, oh well...

Eh, with immigrants, it's racism/xenophobia, but with trans people, it's nothing of the sort. It has nothing to do with transphobia or stigmatising or anything. It's purely about looks. Looking trans = looking like the other gender = having undesirable looks = being ugly, in my book. And people don't like being told they're ugly; that's just natural.

Quote from: A on June 22, 2012, 03:07:34 PM
Eh, with immigrants, it's racism/xenophobia, but with trans people, it's nothing of the sort. It has nothing to do with transphobia or stigmatising or anything. It's purely about looks. Looking trans = looking like the other gender = having undesirable looks = being ugly, in my book. And people don't like being told they're ugly; that's just natural.

And what about the illegal-in-many-countries doctrines included in the Quran, including treatment of women? Shouldn't I sit on that 'holy' book then? Also, racism wasn't even recognized as such (name included) until the 20th century. So it was cool to abuse n****rs then just as transphobia will take a lot to sink in from now on.

So BEING trans is acceptable, but LOOKING trans ain't cool? So, then, being trans but looking cute is good, but if you are one of the many transsexuals who don't pass even to blind people then you are ugly and undesirable?

Oh, ok then...

It IS stigmatization, because it makes people assume that transsexual equals ugly. Let 20 years pass and tell me how many young-transitioned TGs are fugly. Will that end it, then?

I live in Toronto which is a hive of activity for anything LGBT and just about anything else 'non-traditional'.  (Seriously - there's a even place where you can learn competitive axe throwing!)  As such I see at least two new trans people every day without even going downtown into the heart of it all.  It's nice to see so many of them just going about their lives.  Due perhaps in part to the frequency of financial troubles I see a lot of them shopping for clothes at the big thrift stores.  Most of these people are not sticking out very obviously - In fact, I found the vast majority to be quite attractive and well-dressed.  I'm just the kind of person who is very aware of what's around me.  Ever since I identified as trans I've not been able to help but look around for it in others.  Before then I had only noticed the very obvious ones.

I've also seen a few transwomen that were clearly married to the man they were with and behaved no differently from any other average straight couple.  In my retail job I helped one such couple and tried to act exactly as I would with anyone else - I made an effort to give the women an equal amount of eye contact and speaking time.  Can't say for sure but there seemed to be a point where for a very brief moment we exchanged a silent and pleasant understanding with our eyes.  I may not have an interest in men myself but it's really nice seeing trans people who have been able to find a traditional, happy relationship.

You might be... seeing too much evil in things. I didn't say it wasn't okay not to pass, just that it wasn't a desirable situation for anyone, and that's a fact. Not passing is sad but not wrong per se. Even so, is it all right to just go to strangers and say "hey, you don't pass"? Definitely not. Because that's exactly what engaging someone about their transsexualism is.

It's not stigmatisation; it's reality. Passing is desirable to everyone (leave aside gender variant people); thus not passing is a negative thing. And reminding strangers of negative things about themselves is rude.

I do agree that the politically correct things are taken too far sometimes... But being polite and reserved towards strangers is just basic manners.

Quote from: A on June 22, 2012, 07:25:14 PM
You might be... seeing too much evil in things. I didn't say it wasn't okay not to pass, just that it wasn't a desirable situation for anyone, and that's a fact. Not passing is sad but not wrong per se. Even so, is it all right to just go to strangers and say "hey, you don't pass"? Definitely not. Because that's exactly what engaging someone about their transsexualism is.

It's not stigmatisation; it's reality. Passing is desirable to everyone (leave aside gender variant people); thus not passing is a negative thing. And reminding strangers of negative things about themselves is rude.

I do agree that the politically correct things are taken too far sometimes... But being polite and reserved towards strangers is just basic manners.

I like not passing. As a guy :p.

It's kinda funny looking back over my life - Hundreds of people consistently had no problem telling me when I was young that there was something wrong with my voice for a guy and I was too small/skinny/weak for a guy.  Then I grew up and hundreds of people have had no problem telling me I'm still too skinny for a guy and my personality traits are all wrong for a guy.  No one doubted I was male but they sure put me through hell for not 'playing the part right'.  Does that count as a pass?

In the end I concluded that I've always liked myself just fine the way I am but that a lot of other things those people didn't know pointed towards ->-bleeped-<-.  Who knows what they will say during/after transition.  Honestly I stopped caring a long time ago what anyone else had to say about me.  I will do what it takes to be ME.

Quote from: Violet Bloom on June 22, 2012, 08:20:32 PM
It's kinda funny looking back over my life - Hundreds of people consistently had no problem telling me when I was young that there was something wrong with my voice for a guy and I was too small/skinny/weak for a guy.  Then I grew up and hundreds of people have had no problem telling me I'm still too skinny for a guy and my personality traits are all wrong for a guy.  No one doubted I was male but they sure put me through hell for not 'playing the part right'.  Does that count as a pass?

In the end I concluded that I've always liked myself just fine the way I am but that a lot of other things those people didn't know pointed towards ->-bleeped-<-.  Who knows what they will say during/after transition.  Honestly I stopped caring a long time ago what anyone else had to say about me.  I will do what it takes to be ME.

That is exactly how my life has been, and how my life is gonna be. Go for it, girl.

Quote from: Violet Bloom on June 22, 2012, 08:20:32 PM
It's kinda funny looking back over my life - Hundreds of people consistently had no problem telling me when I was young that there was something wrong with my voice for a guy and I was too small/skinny/weak for a guy.  Then I grew up and hundreds of people have had no problem telling me I'm still too skinny for a guy and my personality traits are all wrong for a guy.  No one doubted I was male but they sure put me through hell for not 'playing the part right'.  Does that count as a pass?

In the end I concluded that I've always liked myself just fine the way I am but that a lot of other things those people didn't know pointed towards ->-bleeped-<-.  Who knows what they will say during/after transition.  Honestly I stopped caring a long time ago what anyone else had to say about me.  I will do what it takes to be ME.

Yes....well said!

I am always "just me"