Very few people know my medical past.  That is a "Noneya".  If you need to know I will tell you.  To most of the people I am just another woman, just as it should be.

Is that "Stealth"?  Maybe.  But then again, No.  Do you know that someone has had a surgery? An arrest record? Suffers from depression?  No!  Only if you tell them.

So I assimilate into life.  The only thing that may hold me back is SRS.  And even then that is for me, no one else.

Quote from: Ms. OBrien on June 14, 2012, 06:56:51 AM
To most of the people I am just another woman, just as it should be.

Is that "Stealth"?  Maybe.  But then again, No.  Do you know that someone has had a surgery? An arrest record? Suffers from depression?  No!  Only if you tell them.

So I assimilate into life.  The only thing that may hold me back is SRS.  And even then that is for me, no one else.

Janet,
I couldn't agree with you more. That's an absolute perfect recipe for a rich and rewarding life.
You, my dear, are going to go intergalactic with that attitude. The unimaginable is well within your grasp. Embrace it

Be safe, well and happy
Lotsa huggs
Catherine

It's funny, I typically think of myself as "stealth".  Maybe that isn't really the right word at all.  In practical terms, most of the people that know me in my day to day life have no idea about my trans history.  That includes coworkers, employers, even some of my best friends.  My spouse, of course, knows everything about me.  Her family knows about my past.  Very few friendships survived transition 14 years ago.

This is the way that I typically describe my decision to not share this information with most people: Once people find out that I'm a trans woman, that suddenly becomes the most interesting thing about me... and I really don't think that this is the most interesting thing about me.  I just don't want to deal with peoples' perceptions or curiosity about how I came to be this ultra-femme Barbie Doll of a woman from less feminine beginnings.  Frankly, it's none of their business.  Most people don't know that I was once long ago a fugitive from the law.  Most people don't know that I was once married to a beautiful woman who wasn't prepared for her husband's transition.  People don't know that I served in the armed forces 30 years ago.    It just isn't relevant to who I am today.

Does this mean that I'm in "transsexual head space"?  If it does then it does.  That doesn't mean a thing to me.  You know, 14 years post transition, I'm just this goofy, happy, irreverent, hyper-femme older woman who likes to dress like a Barbie Doll.  People who know me tend to be charmed by my eccentricities and joy-oriented outgoing personality.  And to me, that's just fabulous.

And really, you know, I work for the Catholic Church.  I kind of push the envelope of acceptable behavior as it is being a woman married to another woman... being an out transwoman within the community of this international branch of Vatican representation.... yeah, that's just not gonna happen.

I just don't think that there are any easy answers here.  Am I paranoid?  Nope.  I'm just me.  And although the question of my gender history has never come up at work, I would be disinclined to discuss it if it did.  It's no ones business.  It has occasionally come up with long time friends.  I will answer direct questions from friends with a direct truthful answers.  I don't respond well to innuendo.  People come and go in our lives anyway; if someone wants to fade away because of my trans history, then I'm happy to see them go.

I really hope that I'm not coming across as terse or snippy.  This is a really big subject that's tough to summarize in 100 words or less.  I hope this adds to the discussion.

Peace,
Miharu

Fascinating.  Thanks for posting

Quote from: Miharu Barbie on June 18, 2012, 04:58:33 PM

Does this mean that I'm in "transsexual head space"?

Does what mean you are in "transsexual head space"?  O_o 

Quote from: Noey Noonesson on June 19, 2012, 05:07:39 AM

Does what mean you are in "transsexual head space"?  O_o 

The question is, based on my understanding of what I read earlier in this conversation, is my investment in maintaining a high level of privacy about my gender history an indication of one who is in transsexual head space.  In other words, if I choose to withhold this information from coworkers, employers, friends, is it an indication of paranoia?  And really, to be clearer, it really is not a question in the sense that I'm concerned about it.  If I've learned nothing else from these 14 years of living an ordinary life of a woman among women, I've learned what makes me happy.  And don't we all, trans and non-trans alike, have to draw the line somewhere in so far as how much of ourselves we make common knowledge and how much of ourselves we keep private?  It would almost certainly expose me to an uncertain level of social discomfort for my trans history to be exposed at work, for instance.  It might even trigger the end of my career there.  It isn't something that I think about though.  If it happens, it happens, and I'll deal with.  The same could possibly be true if it came out that I was once a wanted fugitive; there were no convictions, so it doesn't come up on a background check, but if it came out, it could be an issue.  These are just things that we all deal with.  If I keep my youthful troubles with the law private from almost everyone I know, it isn't as if I live in fear that this may come to light.  The choice and effort to keep past legal issues private, or awareness of my gender history for that matter, is a simple choice I make to get along in the world.  Funny to say, since I work for the Catholic Church, but a lot of people won't talk about their feelings on religion, a lot of people won't talk about politics.  These are choices that everyone makes based on how they want to interact with their fellow humans.  For me, whether to live a life of "stealth" relative to my gender history is just one of those choices that I make.  I think.  At least, that's how it feels to me.

Is this a clearer way of saying it, Noey, or did I confuse the issue even more?

Thanks,
Miharu

Quote from: Miharu Barbie on June 18, 2012, 04:58:33 PM
Does this mean that I'm in "transsexual head space"?  If it does then it does.  That doesn't mean a thing to me.  You know, 14 years post transition, I'm just this goofy, happy, irreverent, hyper-femme older woman who likes to dress like a Barbie Doll.  People who know me tend to be charmed by my eccentricities and joy-oriented outgoing personality.  And to me, that's just fabulous.

You have made an excellent point Miharu. It really amplifies another members concept of labels. Annah believes, "Labels should only be use on candy packages." 

I believe your head space, if that's what you want to call it, if it has to have a name is,"I'm just this goofy, happy, irreverent, hyper-femme older woman who likes to dress like a Barbie Doll," that makes you, "People who know me tend to be charmed by my eccentricities and joy-oriented outgoing personality." That to me is a perfect place to be. You've been doing it a lot longer than most round here, and you've worked out what works for you. You need to be congratulated for that.

Keep up the excellent job you are doing, and be safe, well and happy.
Lotsa huggs
Catherine

Quote from: Catherine Sarah on June 19, 2012, 10:34:20 AM

Lotsa huggs

Thank you, Catherine.  Right back at ya.

XO,
Miharu

I would say the 'need to know' stealth is what I go for nowadays.

I've successfully been through interviews and jobs without people knowing or at least bringing it up. It's not something I talk about openly anymore either...it's over and done with in my mind....so there is no need.

If someone were to ask me directly, I'd probably have to answer honestly because I dont like to lie but it's definitely a very personal thing to ask someone.

Grin - what a coincidence! 

I had already decided to back out of advocacy after my surgery (June 27th) .  I have decided to limit my participation in the ON LINE transgender umbrella support groups and LGBT functions I seem to belong to (I just counted them up - 27 of them!)  And here I am on Susan's place introducing myself and getting involved in all this again?

So

I won't be able to let this part go, apparently - so who an I kidding?  Maybe limit everything to one or two sites, maybe one organization?

I am stealth really - already in our community at large - at least I THINK I am stealth.  I outed at my Uniterian Universalist Church because that was a guaranteed place of acceptance, plus I wanted them to know I too am an advocate (most there are very much social justice advocates)  And there is PFLAG.  And I am State President of LTA.  BUT that's about it.  That's stealth isn't it? 

Again, who am I kidding.

But my name is legally changed and soon I will change my gender marker (after surgery and recovery).   I am Elizabeth Anne to Social Security, on my State ID, for my bank accounts, on my credit cards, on bills, and even my junk mail.

I am who I am. 

Like it is oft said by the post-op transitioned woman, I don't wear a sign on my chest, but I won't ever lie about my past. 

And I am a member of the CCUU Woman's Book Club, hee hee....  NOT the LGBT Pride Planning Committee .  And I am one of the seven women registered architects in my state, YES!.... NOT one of the representatives at Southern Comfort. 

I am that woman behind you in Walmart and that tall girl in the cubicle next to you trying on dresses in Macy's.  I am a sister of the world - a female person!

And please my dear sisters that know me - I will ALWAYS gladly answer your emails, letters and your telephone calls.

What is that kind of stealth?  I think it's MY KIND of stealth.

Lizzy

(Sorry for the preaching)

Quote from: Miharu Barbie on June 19, 2012, 09:31:34 AM


Is this a clearer way of saying it, Noey, or did I confuse the issue even more?

Thanks, nice explanation ^_^ .

I think a lot of newly trans or newbie trans think of "stealth" as Maintaining deception.  But we (I) transitioned because somehow I had always been female and transition was a way for a female (me) to have a life instead of living in the wrong body experience, wrong life experience.

And in my own experience even nice people will rat you out as a non-woman if they know you transitioned M2F.  I mean look at 'M2F' <---  the abbreviation/word itself says we are males trying 2 be females.  And you can't explain to someone that you have somehow always been female.  The meaning becomes twisted in the telling.  I mean it is great in the beginning to be out and to finally feel like you are doing something about the GID.  It feels great in the beginning to announce to the world that you are [insert target sex].

But in my experience even [target sex] implies wanting.  And in my experience non-trans people see us as eternally wanting and never achieving.  Because the common belief is that we are our bodies, therefore a male2female transsexual is a man who wants to change His body to be like a woman's body.  They don't understand and they can't fathom what we feel.  I know there were times when I was explaining it to people and it felt like I was getting the point across, educating people, making the world a better place for myself.  I felt like some people were able to understand.  But time and experience taught me that no one understands or appreciates that I am female.  They can only come to grips with the wanting to be female aspect of transition.  Not that we were our target sex in some capacity from the beginning.

And often newly trans people see Stealth is deception.  They see it as a lot of effort of maintaining a lie or hiding the truth.  What they don't realize is that for some of us the truth is we in some way have always been our "target sex" and transition for us is a way of living that truth.  And there is no such thing as "stealth" really, I mean for me it is a matter of just being allowed to be who I truly am.  And I don't go around hiding behind bushes and whispering.  I live my life.  I am female.  I do what females do and say what females say (when I am not on a forum like this saying what trans women say).

As far as I am concerned I don't owe anyone any truth except for the truth that I am female and this is my life, this is my body, my female body, my breasts my vagina, my butt, my arms, my eyes.  It's all me, it's all a woman's body.  And anyone who thinks differently can take a long walk off a short pier.

Looking back on my life, beginning transition around 1999-2000, having SRS in 2004 (for context). 

Looking back I would say that prior to transition my womanhood was a seed planted deep inside of my chest.  It was a seed that never saw a drop of rain, a sprout that never saw a ray of sunshine.  It was a seed.  My womanhood was a seed, one that was dying... one that was withering away.

Transition was a way to begin nourishing that seed.  Transition allowed that seed to sprout and develop into a sapling.

Today I am a tree, no longer a seed.  My womanhood is visible, no longer a seed hidden away in some dark place.  My womanhood is like a tree that can be climbed in, it has structure and substance.

I was always female but prior to transition my being female was undeveloped, it was even less than stunted because it had never seen the light of day.  I had never had female interactions.  I was unable to experience life like other women (never being recognized as female) never being interacted with as female.  I had fantasies that I occasionally actually believed myself, fantasies about people perceiving me as female before transition.  Fantasies that other people would have known that I was female all along.  But those were baseless fantasies, and they came out of existing as a deep well of emptiness.  They were pipe dreams to fill a life that had been a vacuum.  I did all the typical trans head games and fantasies stuff.  I even imagined that hormones would cause people to forget I had ever had a male body and that I would be completely accepted as female without ever having to come out as trans.

What I know for certain is that I am not the same person.  I know now for certain that I was not a woman prior to transition.  I was never a girl.  And yet there was that paradox because inside of me was a seed, I was female because of that seed, that seed was female but I was not and yet I could not remove that seed and it had to grow, that seed was the true me, the me that was never acknowledged, the me that never got to experience anything, not even a first step or riding a bicycle for the first time.  That seed was only a seed and I didn't have some secret female life prior to transition.

And transition for me was physical, mental and spiritual and I am sure as F@ck not the same person that I was prior to transition.  A tree is not a seed.

I am an entirely different person.  I don't even like the same things that I used to like.  I don't like the same colors.  I don't like doing the things I did before transition.  I never realized how awful beer is till after transition.  Nothing tastes the same, nothing feels the same, nothing is the same and I am certainly not the same person.  The only thing about me that is the same are the ideas that people like my parents have about me in their minds and I am tired of being a slave to other people's memories.  I am fed up with being a slave to other people's expectations and perceptions.

I am so far removed from the person I was before transition that it is beyond imagination.  I don't have the same personality... everything about me has changed including the texture of my hair.

All I want is for stupid people to stop comparing me to someone who doesn't even exist.  All I want is for ignorant fools to stop trying to prove that I am really just a man.  All I want is freedom.  The freedom to be me.  The freedom to not have to keep in mind what my enemies might be saying behind my back or plotting or planning.  That idiot who looks at me and thinks, "I wonder if she is really just a man?"  I want total freedom from that idiot and everyone like her.  The space between the lines is just that, space.

Wow Noey!  That entry right there   reads a lot like a poem.  That is one of the nicest poems that I've ever read about being a trans woman.  Thank you!

Miharu

Quote from: Ms. OBrien on May 27, 2012, 02:11:29 PM
A friend, Jenny who was 'rejennyrated', and I were talking about being "stealth".  She brought up a point that being truly stealth can instill a sense of paranoia.  What if someone finds out.

So she came up with AMAP stealth. "As much as possible" stealth.  It is basically a "need to know" type of stealth.

What do you think?

That concept is called assimilation.  Because of computer data bases and other information technology classic stealth is impossible.  Everyone today lives in some degree of assimilation.  In my case some know, most do not and I don't care if anyone finds out.  I don't care because I transitioned on the job several years ago and my job is secure.  Many people are probably surprised by my "I don't care" philosophy, but to me that is the key to my success.  I'm not hiding, I don't live in fear, I'm just me.  And isn't that the whole point of transition?

My advice is to just stop using the word "stealth".  It has too much baggage attached to it.

Just be you.

I like that, Beyond.

Quote from: Beyond on June 21, 2012, 09:36:01 PM
That concept is called assimilation.  Because of computer data bases and other information technology classic stealth is impossible.  Everyone today lives in some degree of assimilation.  In my case some know, most do not and I don't care if anyone finds out.  I don't care because I transitioned on the job several years ago and my job is secure.  Many people are probably surprised by my "I don't care" philosophy, but to me that is the key to my success.  I'm not hiding, I don't live in fear, I'm just me.  And isn't that the whole point of transition?

My advice is to just stop using the word "stealth".  It has too much baggage attached to it.

Just be you.

I like the overall message but nothing is impossible.  'Perfect' 'Stealth' might be impossible for a 'Perfectionist' but starting over in a new location as one's true sex is entirely possible for anyone who had a relatively successful transition, a good female voice and a fire in her belly.

Quote from: Noey Noonesson on June 22, 2012, 12:07:02 AMI like the overall message but nothing is impossible.  'Perfect' 'Stealth' might be impossible for a 'Perfectionist' but starting over in a new location as one's true sex is entirely possible for anyone who had a relatively successful transition, a good female voice and a fire in her belly.

I didn't transition to live in a closet.  That's what attempting "stealth" is, a very tight closet.  Anyone who wants to live that way is crazy IMO.

Quote from: Beyond on June 22, 2012, 08:50:35 PM
I didn't transition to live in a closet.  That's what attempting "stealth" is, a very tight closet.  Anyone who wants to live that way is crazy IMO.

You have a lot of ideas and opinions that you seem to consider absolute and infallible fact.  I thoroughly enjoy being proved wrong, it makes me feel good about life and helps me to get out of ego and take myself less seriously.  How do you feel about being wrong?

QuoteOne hot summer's day a Fox was strolling through an orchard till he came to a bunch of Grapes just ripening on a vine which had been trained over a lofty branch. "Just the thing to quench my thirst," quoth he. Drawing back a few paces, he took a run and a jump, and just missed the bunch. Turning round again with a One, Two, Three, he jumped up, but with no greater success. Again and again he tried after the tempting morsel, but at last had to give it up, and walked away with his nose in the air, saying: "I am sure they are sour." ~Aesop

"Beyond"  - hi hon - guess who?  Grin - joining the club in a few days.  Should I just disappear?  Tempting - so glad to see ya!

Lizzy

I marched on LGBT day and got outed by a neighbor.

Now I am small talk by neighbors and developing new set of friends.