I had been undergoing electrolysis from a reputed technician last year, and I was incredibly disillusioned to find that almost all of my hair grew back.

Specifics: This was with about 10 hours of electro concentrated almost completely on the upper lip. This technician has had very good reviews from other patients and works at a facility that works with the trans community a lot. She seemed pretty fast (about 8 hairs per minute) and was able to clear almost my entire upper lip after each half-hour session (not a *huge* amount of hair to start with).

While I realize 10 hours wasn't a lot of time, I would have expected it to do something, especially because those hours were on one small, specific area. The same hairs were zapped and re-zapped weeks later after regrowth several times. I eventually ran out of money, and when I went full time, growing facial hair stopped really becoming an option. It's been probably about 6 months now since I stopped, and by now all the hair seems to have completely grown back. I've been on hrt for over a year now, so I wouldn't expect any new growth that may have occured in that time (I'm relatively young so facial hair was still spreading when I started). I'm half italian, and have sadly taken after that side of the family as far as body hair goes. My mother has very course body hair, and mine is about the same.

At this point, I'm not about to go though the extreme pain again for no reason. Even if I thought electro might work now, I really can't let hair grow out to do it anymore. I've taken to living with having to shave very closely and applying makeup very carefully every single day to hide it. Having been full time for about 5 months now, It's getting to the point that I really have to do something about this hair, and while laser seems the obvious choice, I don't see how it could work very well if electro didn't really work at all.

Has anyone else had electrolysis not work?? Does anyone think laser will work on me, given the persistence of my follicles?? Money is still an issue with starting laser, and at this point I'm mainly focused on seeing about getting Aetna to cover at least a portion of my GRS, but the hair has to go, I've had it!

While this person may have a good rep, her skills seem to be lacking somewhat.  It is not unusual for a hair to require two treatments to kill it, and 10 hours is ample time to clear the area you're talking about.  Its seems as though she is plucking rather than zapping the hair.  I have had about the same amount of treatment on my chin and it is quite clear.  Has this person given a reason for the re-growth, may be it's time to be looking for another tech.

Steph

When using the blend modality, when the hair is sufficiently treated it will slide out with only slight resistance due to the root bulb.  You should also see a clear, gelatinous root sheath attached to the treated hair, or maybe poking from the follicle.  The tech will lightly tug on the hair to test it.  If she really has to yank on it, it wasn't treated enough.

Another modality used by some techs is flash thermolysis.  The machine delivers one or more super short but high intensity pulses of heat to the follicle in an attempt to kill just the hair generating cells without injuring anything beyond that.  Some people swear by it, some people swear at it...  Same rules apply -- if the hair doesn't release with a light tug at most, it isn't treated enough, and the tech re-inserts and pops the hair again.

The growth cycle of male-pattern facial hair is such that for every growing hair there are several dormant follicles.  And it takes up to a year for all the follicles to go through dormancy and begin the active phase again.  Assuming you have a highly skilled tech with a 90% kill rate, and you go in once a month and take whatever time it takes to get every last hair during that 'session', it will take about a year to a year and a half (maybe even longer) to get every last hair.  The good news is that each session will take less time than the last.

Sadly, I think a lot of t-girls have ended up being 'farmed' by incompetent -- or worse, unethical -- electro techs.

Karen

Also if the probe is not inserted to the right depth, it will not kill the hair bulb.  Skill of the operator is important.

Beni

Quote from: Elaine on May 02, 2007, 08:14:39 PM
I had been undergoing electrolysis from a reputed technician last year, and I was incredibly disillusioned to find that almost all of my hair grew back.

Specifics: This was with about 10 hours of electro concentrated almost completely on the upper lip. This technician has had very good reviews from other patients and works at a facility that works with the trans community a lot. She seemed pretty fast (about 8 hairs per minute) and was able to clear almost my entire upper lip after each half-hour session (not a *huge* amount of hair to start with).

While I realize 10 hours wasn't a lot of time, I would have expected it to do something, especially because those hours were on one small, specific area. The same hairs were zapped and re-zapped weeks later after regrowth several times. I eventually ran out of money, and when I went full time, growing facial hair stopped really becoming an option. It's been probably about 6 months now since I stopped, and by now all the hair seems to have completely grown back. I've been on hrt for over a year now, so I wouldn't expect any new growth that may have occured in that time (I'm relatively young so facial hair was still spreading when I started). I'm half italian, and have sadly taken after that side of the family as far as body hair goes. My mother has very course body hair, and mine is about the same.

At this point, I'm not about to go though the extreme pain again for no reason. Even if I thought electro might work now, I really can't let hair grow out to do it anymore. I've taken to living with having to shave very closely and applying makeup very carefully every single day to hide it. Having been full time for about 5 months now, It's getting to the point that I really have to do something about this hair, and while laser seems the obvious choice, I don't see how it could work very well if electro didn't really work at all.

Has anyone else had electrolysis not work?? Does anyone think laser will work on me, given the persistence of my follicles?? Money is still an issue with starting laser, and at this point I'm mainly focused on seeing about getting Aetna to cover at least a portion of my GRS, but the hair has to go, I've had it!

If you have fair skin and dark hair you should have done laser in the first place and avoid electrolysis altogether (except maybe cleanup of grey/blond hairs left).  In the long run, especially if you have persistent dark hair...laser is actually CHEAPER and probably a better option.  You should have went with laser. With dark hair it literally takes 50-100 hours to be removed if you have dark hair. Also with 10 hours you may have only hit one hair growth cycle. 
My tech is very clear about people with fair/dark combination.  Laser works 99% of the time.  I would say laser is your only real option, unless you want to spend $5000-$10000 on hair removal with electro.  (With laser it will probably be $2000-3000).  You will actually be saving money.  The odd thing is even with a couple of sessions, the amount of makeup I use on my face went down. 

Also having dark persistent hair, is a GOOD thing with laser.  It works with us girls best!  It seems you have fair enough skin too.  Laser may cost more upfront, but the results are great if you have the right hair color and complexion.  It is actually a better option than electro it sounds like. 

Does your Aetna policy have the transgender rider, the one that removes the exclusion? 

I spent a couple of years under the needle.  I had my face cleared every week. Your face can have thousands of hairs and many of them are dormant.  It just takes a long time to get them all.  When I went through it, LASER was not available.  From everything that I've heard, I'd take that option first.  You could arrange a few days to let it grow out... say over a weekend, play hookey on a Monday and get your face burned.  I can't imagine trying to live full time and having to shave.

Electro took most all of my money when I started transition.  It was higher on my priority list than eating!  I paid for that before I bought food. That's how bad I wanted it gone!

Cindi

Electrolysis as a method definately works, so yes... you're operator is doing *something* wrong.

You could try a different electrolysist, but I'd vote for trying laser - if you're hairs are dark and skin fairly light. I'm sure you've read all the controversy surrounding it, but generally people who have actually USED it swear by it.

My recommendation is to find a medical doctor who uses either a LightSheer or CoolGlide laser. They seem to work really well for people. I'm sure others do too, but these are the ones I most often saw people posting great results about around the net.

The NICE thing is you're *supposed* to shave before each session. The less hair showing, the better it works. So no more "growing out" days. AND, each session only lasts around 10-20 minutes of zapping. AND, you only need to do that around 8-12 times, spread roughly a month apart.

Those first few sessions hurt pretty bad though

~Kate~

Quote from: Kate on May 03, 2007, 08:56:40 AM
Electrolysis as a method definately works, so yes... you're operator is doing *something* wrong.

You could try a different electrolysist, but I'd vote for trying laser - if you're hairs are dark and skin fairly light. I'm sure you've read all the controversy surrounding it, but generally people who have actually USED it swear by it.

My recommendation is to find a medical doctor who uses either a LightSheer or CoolGlide laser. They seem to work really well for people. I'm sure others do too, but these are the ones I most often saw people posting great results about around the net.

The NICE thing is you're *supposed* to shave before each session. The less hair showing, the better it works. So no more "growing out" days. AND, each session only lasts around 10-20 minutes of zapping. AND, you only need to do that around 8-12 times, spread roughly a month apart.

Those first few sessions hurt pretty bad though

~Kate~

The alexandrite lasers work very well too (GentleLase). The Candela lasers (GentleLase and GentleYag) are both very good. It does not need to be a medical doctor either, it can be a licensed and experienced tech as well (which is what I am going with).  Though both of the Candela lasers are pretty much commonly used by dermatologists, finding somebody who was just a tech is rare, because they do take quite a bit of training and are pricey bits of equipment.  They also have multiple uses for a dermatologist (acne, veins, etc). 

I personally do not understand the controversy.  I think it has been from people who did not follow through on the schedule right or only did it once. Or they just did not have a good tech or dermatologist do it, and they were not using one of the better lasers (be it the Candela's, Lightsheer, or Coolglide).  That or they had the wrong skin/hair type for laser.   The truth is laser does work very well if you are suited for it. 

The pain has not been so bad.  It is better than the alternative (electro) and much faster. 

I actually started out with electrolysis in the same area (upper lip) for about the same amount of time (9.5 hours) and had about the same results.  Plus like you, my hair wasn't a whole lot to begin with.  After saving up money for a while I went and started paying for laser hair removal treatments.  This was about a year ago.  I was able to talk a place into selling me a contract at a package price in which I made 4 payments (1 each for the first 4 sessions) rather than paying for each session separately.  It also gave me an additional 2 year guarantee.  Well, soon after the first laser session, I immediately had a massive hair reduction in that area and I have actually been one of the best results.  Shortly after the second one I went fulltime and was passing, so you can tell how quickly it does it's job.  Of course I've seen some of my friends who didn't have it work quite so rapidly as it did on my face, so YMMV definitely applies.

When I did the electrolysis originally, I was not on hormones and that may have contributed to the hair's refusal to disappear.  I had been on HRT for about 3 months at the time I started laser and as I continued treatments I was obviously on it for a longer time.  I have heard (from my Dr.) that it can take months for testosterone to drop to female levels.  As others have said, perhaps switching to laser would be a good option at this point.  I have just started moving over to electrolysis to zap the blonde hairs away and fortunately my tech doesn't require a ton of growth, nor do the blonde hairs really show up that well to most people.  Oh, and I switched to a different operator.  I actually hadn't come out to the first one as trans.

Two laser sessions did the "visible" job for me ... I only needed five sessions in all and its now 18 months an still clear.  Dark strong growth on light skin works best (the finer hair on my arms took many more treatments, an odd fine hairs still occassionaly sprout).

Avoid IPL & old fashioned Ruby, use Nd Yag.  I used lightsheer, but I hear coolglide is very good as well.

Avantage of laser is that you can turn up closely shaved ... visible growth can carbonize an burn the skin !

As for electro, (which I need for those white hairs), I'm told that "blend" is the best, having an 80% kill rate as oppose to the 10 - 20% achieved by "flash".  The electrolytic action of blend can kill hairs even when in "shedding" phase, unlike flash that needs the hair to be fully seated in the root to transmit the microwave energy and cauterize the follicle.

Snag is that blend can take up to 2 minutes per hair (though there's now multi needle blend), while flash might do six hairs per minute ...

Oh, and with blend there is minimal pain or redness, and hardly any chance of scarring.  Flash in the hands of an unskilled operator can destroy your skin !

Laura

Hey girls, I'm post op September 11 2001    911 rebirth.  Anways!. I first pulled each hair out of my face fifteen years ago one by one. Yeah! it hurt but after all I did, I have no facial hair. I used Vaniqa on my face every morining and evening for three years. I use an Epilator on my face every morning. I get maybe twenty hairs here and there. My facial nerves are use to getting them pulled out so it doesn't hurt at all. I also use it on my arms once a week. I'm left smooth and hair free. No worry about 5 oclock shadow. I'm only 5'4'" tall. I've been on hormone since 1989. I hope that this helps girls.  Cindy

Quote from: Laura Eva B on May 03, 2007, 08:06:53 PM
Oh, and with blend there is minimal pain or redness, and hardly any chance of scarring.

I couldn't do blend because of all the redness, swelling and blistering.  Not to mention it was more painful.

Thank you everyone for the replies -- very helpful. From the beginning I had my mind made up that electro was some how better. At the time, from what I'd been reading, I felt that electro was the only "true" permanent method and nothing else was worth my attention. Now with newer lasers becoming more well known, it seems like that isn't as true as I thought it was.

Even if laser isn't *completely* permanent (I'm still not clear on this), it still seems worlds better to have to go back for a few laser sessions years later than to have to go through the many hours of torture from electro.

As far as my electro tech, I still don't think it had anything to do with her ability. I understood how the needle kills the hair, and the hairs usually came out with some ease after she'd zapped them.

This whole thing hasn't weighed too much on my shoulders because as long as I wear enough concealer, the hair is covered and I pass fine. But now it just really hit me that if my dumb hair wasn't there I could go without makeup althogether and not have to worry about being read, and how could I not have pursued my hair removal more thoroughly!? The choice now is obvious -- I have to have laser.

Thank you everyone again! I still have one question though: Is new laser technology considered permanent?

hair grows in stages...  and can be uber stuborn....  Im going with the aurora type laser, it also does a good job of killing off the light hairs.....  new type lasers are so much less painful and more effective than those dinosaurs of the past      *it is expensive upfront, but worth it and overall less than full on electro in the end*

Quote from: Elaine on May 05, 2007, 07:34:37 PM
Thank you everyone again! I still have one question though: Is new laser technology considered permanent?

It simply hasn't been around long enough to really know. Ask me again in 2079

I poked around the net forever, and emailed a gazillion people, and many claim to have had NO regrowth after up to six years... and counting.

But in the end, yes, it's a risk. But it seems to be a very good gamble.

~Kate~