A post I read on here [https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,121659.0.html] sparked a sort of interest that I think could spark up some good conversation and that was the question of Gender Identity vs. Sexual Orientation and how it relates to dating.

To my own personal understanding Gender Identity and Sexual Orientation are almost in no way related. In the simplest of terms Gender Identity is the gender that you feel that you are and Sexual Orientation is the gender(s) you are attracted to. (Any other views/opinions please weigh in!!)

Dating
This is where in my own life I have had issues with the prospect of dating and how to go about it. In the past before I came out as transgenderd I lived my life as a lesbian female, but was always attracted to straight women therefore pursued them and had a couple long-term relationships. I saw myself as a straight male yet I was living as a lesbian female who dated straight women....oh the confusion!! This was eventually one of the things that led me to further exploration of my identity and the process of coming out.

My main point of all of this ranting is how do YOU relate to your gender identity and sexual orientation and how do you apply it when you are dating? Any tips about coming out to your partners vs. living a stealth lifestyle?

In my current trans bi-ness, I'm strongly attracted to lesbian women (I always have been, mind you) and to straight men (though I don't actually like most of the men I'm attracted to ). I'm definitely attracted to both as a woman. But it's kind of academic/abstract, since I have my Closed For Repairs sign up at the moment.

The last woman I was in a relationship with was very confused by being in love with me as a woman, but liking sex with my man-parts. It confused the hell out of me, too, and though it hurts a lot that we broke up, I feel a lot more comfortable transitioning single for the moment.

As i have had zero success at dating since starting transition it's hard to tell.  Internet? Waste of money that!
As I am only interested in women; cis, trans or intersex; it is a matter of waiting for a positive response. 

I posted something about mine in the sexuality forum. In a nut shell, I used to be very attracted to guys, but it turns out, most of that attraction was because I want to look like them. Since realizing that I am a guy, my attraction to men is equal to my attraction to women (depending on the day).
For dating, I would rather date someone bi because I don't want to date anyone who doesn't see me as a man, but wouldn't want to deny my female gender either.

The only way mine has really shifted is that as a teen, I only fell for straight women, which was obviously difficult. When I came out as a "lesbian", I only liked lesbians, probably because straight girls had hurt me too much so I was put off. Now, I tend to like women who are bisexual. Obviously that's all mental, but it's easy for me to write off women who I know won't have any interest (like women who are 100% lesbian).

Heh, I misread that as "obviously they're all mental" .

Lol, Padma! Well, you know what they say about those bisexuals and pansexuals...

I feel like sexual orientation is connected to my sex identity for me. I prefer women, but usually only women who are queer identified in some way, I see it as a queer relationship and myself as also queer...whereas some people try to insist that its "straight" (in order for someone to be "straight" they have to identify that way...and I certainly don't). So my identity as a transguy (and being proud of being different from cisguys and being another sex than cisguy or female) definitely informs how I identify my sexuality.

But I've definitely known a few people who's gender identity has shifted depending on who they're attracted to or sleeping with. Women who are comfortable with their identities as women and as lesbians, but who occasionally are attracted to gay men but feel like their attraction and sexual interaction with those gay men is from a "gay boy" space than from a "woman/lesbian" space. Sexuality is really too complicated to say its definitively separate from gender identity...because for me the other person's identity definitely plays into if I'm attracted to them. Woman or genderqueer identities over male identities, f.ex.

The dilemma I am always faced with in dating is I want whoever I am with to see me as 100% male and I feel like if I open up my dating and date lesbian females it will not only confuse the hell out of them about their sexual orientation, but makes me feel like less of a man. I hate the fact that when labels get thrown into the mix it tends to stir everything up and cause a personal sense of chaos. I think dating women who identify as bisexual might be the ultimate cure to this, but then again in any situation my #1 fear is that I am going to be left for a bio male. So much it causes pure jealousy anytime a girlfriend of mine spends (in my opinion) a little too much time with a guy friend, only because it has happened to me in the past and it gives me a mistrust of women when I am in relationships with them. I hate that about myself. 

Quote from: Kristopher on August 09, 2012, 12:40:10 PM
The dilemma I am always faced with in dating is I want whoever I am with to see me as 100% male and I feel like if I open up my dating and date lesbian females it will not only confuse the hell out of them about their sexual orientation, but makes me feel like less of a man. I hate the fact that when labels get thrown into the mix it tends to stir everything up and cause a personal sense of chaos. I think dating women who identify as bisexual might be the ultimate cure to this, but then again in any situation my #1 fear is that I am going to be left for a bio male. So much it causes pure jealousy anytime a girlfriend of mine spends (in my opinion) a little too much time with a guy friend, only because it has happened to me in the past and it gives me a mistrust of women when I am in relationships with them. I hate that about myself. 

Do you have much contact with queer community where you are? Tbh, there are lots of lesbians out there who have no problems with seeing transguys as completely male while also not questioning their sexuality because of it. I think it also depends on your age, those of the women you date and also the queer community in your area. Many queer women, especially if they're younger, don't see "lesbian" as this rigid "you must be a woman who likes women or else you're not a lesbian" thing. The more people who start using "queer" as a more fluid understanding of sex and sexuality, the less rigid these labels become.

Quote from: Berserk on August 09, 2012, 12:43:07 PM
Do you have much contact with queer community where you are? Tbh, there are lots of lesbians out there who have no problems with seeing transguys as completely male while also not questioning their sexuality because of it. I think it also depends on your age, those of the women you date and also the queer community in your area. Many queer women, especially if they're younger, don't see "lesbian" as this rigid "you must be a woman who likes women or else you're not a lesbian" thing. The more people who start using "queer" as a more fluid understanding of sex and sexuality, the less rigid these labels become.

Well I live in a small town in Illinois, so my not only is my community very small but there is little to no activism for anything LGBTQ. I have no problem opening up my own dating ideas just as long as it doesn't cause problems for me or them in the long run, you know?

Wait, how did you date straight women as a female?

Anywho, I never thought about sex as a base for attraction. I would be attracted to anyone who is funny, nice, active, and smart. However, I do think that your gender can affect what personal qualities you find to be attractive. For example, my girl friends don't like guys who like video games, but my guy friends drool over a girl who can play them.

In short, gender isn't a quality to be attracted to, but gender can affect what you find to be an attractive quality in a person.

I see myself as mostly a trans-lesbian with a penis.  I am especially and deeply (on what I believe to be a profound level) drawn to other trans-women; but have had almost no opportunity to meet and inter-act with them *sigh*.  The only men that really push my sexual attraction button(s) are of the androgynous variety.  The only thing I really want from most  men is their attention.  I wonder how common this is with true transgender women?   

Quote from: patstar on August 09, 2012, 04:23:35 PM
I am especially and deeply (on what I believe to be a profound level) drawn to other trans-women;

I get that. I've been thinking that I'd really like to date another bigender person, but that's because, as someone who's bi, the idea of dating someone who is both a guy and a gal is really appealing. Oh hey! I just realized that I might be appealing to other bi people! Now if only I could settle on what to do with my body.

Quote from: DianaP on August 09, 2012, 04:05:04 PM
Wait, how did you date straight women as a female?

That's the thing, Diana, I guess I had a way of making them comfortable enough to "test" their own sexuality to a certain degree (something I now regret) because the last thing I would ever want to do is be the cause for someone else's confusion in themselves. That is what ended up happening with the two straight women I dated when I was out as a lesbian. Needless to say both relationships ended on shaky notes. I've currently been out (not to everybody) but since about mid-January of this year and am in about a three month relationship with a girl that was one of the first people I came out to, but again I can't shake the fear that she will end up leaving me for a bio male. It drives me crazy!

However, the idea of dating another person who is trans whether it to FtM or MtF sounds pretty appealing because who else would be able to understand/relate to us and our struggles as someone who has went through a similar journey. Anyone out there willing to share their experiences with this?

I started my transition believing I was a straight woman. However certain events and some realisations led me to realise this was not the case. I'm a lesbian.. I'm not much fussed whether someone is trans or cis, that is not where my attraction lies - I simply like women.

Quote from: patstar on August 09, 2012, 04:23:35 PM
I wonder how common this is with true transgender women?

I find myself wondering what the definition of 'true transgender women' is?

Quote from: Kristopher on August 09, 2012, 08:29:18 PM
a three month relationship with a girl that was one of the first people I came out to, but again I can't shake the fear that she will end up leaving me for a bio male. It drives me crazy!

I can relate. I really want to be with one of my best friends (who shall remain nameless), who was one of the first people I told of my desire to transition. He's a hetero, but I fear that he won't accept me since I'll never be biologically female and he knew me as a male since we were both in 6th grade. Even so, life is about moving on, and I would rather have him as just a friend than not have him at all. I know you feel stressed that your mate will leave you upon transition, but remember that there are other people out there for you. You just have to be willing to look.

Quote from: kelly_aus on August 09, 2012, 08:51:30 PM
I find myself wondering what the definition of 'true transgender women' is?

I don't get it either.... Colloquial terminology changes too fast for me to bother trying to keep up.

I've always felt as trans individuals we are able to have a better understanding of both genders since for a time we were socialized as one gender and now we are coming into our true identities. I think it's kind of one of a kind in a way. So I've always felt that no matter our preferred gender when it comes to dating we have a sort of special more in-depth and unique understanding that any kind of relationship can benefit from! 

Quote from: DianaP on August 09, 2012, 08:56:33 PM
I can relate. I really want to be with one of my best friends (who shall remain nameless), who was one of the first people I told of my desire to transition. He's a hetero, but I fear that he won't accept me since I'll never be biologically female and he knew me as a male since we were both in 6th grade. Even so, life is about moving on, and I would rather have him as just a friend than not have him at all. I know you feel stressed that your mate will leave you upon transition, but remember that there are other people out there for you. You just have to be willing to look.

First of all, Thanks for the advice! There is a huge ocean out there and plenty of fish, stingrays, and shark to choose from! I would be scared and anxious if I were you about losing such a close and nearly lifetime long friend, but maybe it's worth the shot? You'll never know until you close your eyes and jump!

Speaking as someone who has been on the receiving end of someone being afraid I would leave them, it really sucks to have something think that. When it was going on, I felt like I was walking on eggshells, having my friends scrutinized, and everything I did under suspicion when I hadn't done anything wrong. I also felt very insulted that they though I was so shallow and vapid. Not to mention, ignoring the fact that I chose them feels like disrespect for my ability to choose for myself.
I know you probably don't mean it that way, but it sucks to be the other person too. Build healthy self esteem before dating.

Quote from: Edge on August 09, 2012, 09:17:36 PM
Speaking as someone who has been on the receiving end of someone being afraid I would leave them, it really sucks to have something think that. When it was going on, I felt like I was walking on eggshells, having my friends scrutinized, and everything I did under suspicion when I hadn't done anything wrong. I also felt very insulted that they though I was so shallow and vapid. Not to mention, ignoring the fact that I chose them feels like disrespect for my ability to choose for myself.
I know you probably don't mean it that way, but it sucks to be the other person too. Build healthy self esteem before dating.

I'm not trying to insult him; I love him. The only problem is that I don't know about his standards for gender. He says he's attracted to women, and I don't know if he'll ever see me as one. The fact that I'm non-op doesn't help too much, either.... I agree that I need to build some self-esteem before dating. I've always been my worst critic.