Quote from: Padma on August 07, 2012, 01:18:07 AM
...to wherever they have least/no dysphoria, I guess.

I guess.

Being non-binary, one doesn't transition in the sense of binary transitions.
We can change, we can find things that make us more complete to ourselves, as individuals.
But unless we change to being binary in the stricter sense, we don't transition.
We can 'transition' from our birth gender to what we want, but at our core we remain non-binary.
As some have discovered, they really weren't non-binary to begin with.
Some think they have always been binary and do transition to their gender, only to find that it is non-binary.
You could then call it a transition, because it is.
But a better definition, for most of us, I would think, is 'change'.
As we find our paths, discover more about ourselves as individuals, change is probably inevitable.
I look at it as a journey, less as a transition.
We change as we each find our definition of who we are as non-binaries.
But a transformation implies something different.
So I feel more comfortable calling it a change, in the context of Trans*.
I suppose a way of looking at it, is that we are unicorns.
We can change our binary gender if we so desire, but we will still be unicorns.
Transsexuals have described their transitions as changing from a caterpillar to a butterfly.
Maybe some of us are Pegasus. With a unicorn horn, just the same.
Could we look at it as rising from the ashes of our childhood? A Phoenix?
I know of at least a couple who do. Is that a transition or change?
I am transitioning to who I wish to be, but it is only by changing those things that I feel I need to.
I will still be male, I will still be female. Just finding my own individual center place.
Which it would seem, to be a different place for each non-binary.
Do you suppose that being non-binary encompasses the binary world?
Do we use a 'continuum' (without ends) that has a section in it that female and male reside in?
Or do you believe that we are somewhere in the middle of their 'spectrum' (that has ends)?
I think we are only capable of change, even if we only do use the part that is considered to be a transition.
Bigenders define themselves in a way that is unique to them, just as we all do.

Ativan

Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on August 07, 2012, 09:37:47 AM
Being non-binary, one doesn't transition in the sense of binary transitions.
We can change, we can find things that make us more complete to ourselves, as individuals.

Put Perfick

I'd say that transition (either binary or non binary) changes only the way we present. A MtF who gets SRS and begins dressing and acting female isn't changing her gender, just the way it's shown to the world (and to herself).

Likewise if I, as a non-binary, were to "transition", it would simply change the way I show myself to the world. It would have no affect on my actual gender.

My posts have been struggling with this very thing. I do want to present as binary - I think the world does not sufficiently understand non-binary gender for me to be able to manage to look like anything but a freak for presenting as non-binary. I admire people at Susan's who have sufficiently thick skin not to care about what people think of them, but that's not for me.

So for me, the decision is which of the two binary genders would I be most comfortable presenting as.

I took the same approach as MiriaMx, and I'm sure others.  I purposely waited until hormones and electrolysis had gotten me to the point that I was passing probably about 50% of the time, and then slowly began adding in makeup and dressing differently.  During the in between period I was very androgynous, and basically wore jeans and tee shirts, and more "feminine" selections from the men's section.  This worked very well for me, and, at least in my case, helped to minimize the in-between period where there was no way I was going to pass.  Taking the gradual approach can also be a good way to feel your way through transitioning, and get a feeling for where you want to take it, and where you feel you can end up.  There are always facial surgeries, for the things that hormones cannot change - i.e., those that are the result of the underlying bone structure.  But, I believe that everyone is different, and everyone's transition is different. There aren't any right answers, and it's really a matter of finding what is right for you. 

Quote from: Erica on August 07, 2012, 01:45:08 PM
  Taking the gradual approach can also be a good way to feel your way through transitioning, and get a feeling for where you want to take it, and where you feel you can end up. But, I believe that everyone is different, and everyone's transition is different. There aren't any right answers, and it's really a matter of finding what is right for you. 

Sorry for dissecting your post, but essentially, this I think would be typical of non-binary people.
It's not destination driven. Yet, it is a drive to become who you are.
It really is a matter of what is right for you, to find who you are.


Ativan

I will still be male, I will still be female. Just finding my own individual center place

Ativan, you always make me smile.

Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on August 07, 2012, 02:20:38 PM
It's not destination driven. Yet, it is a drive to become who you are.
It really is a matter of what is right for you, to find who you are.

Definitely.  That's really what I was hoping to convey. 

even if i fulled transitioned from male to female  and passed and ended up looking  like a tottaly gorgeous girl , id still view myself as a third gender/ not really male or female

Quote from: Padma on August 07, 2012, 01:18:07 AM
...to wherever they have least/no dysphoria, I guess.

i was more bigender in my teens but now my identity has shifted much further over to the feminine realm and stayed there ,

If you are transitioning from rather than to, it is up to you how you interpret your own appearance I guess.
If you are bi-gender or androgyne you could wear a man's suit, for example, and be either  profoundly male, butch female, crossdressing woman, or androgyne feeling male, and probably a lot besides.
We talked around this and related ares last night at my support group, and really didn't come up with any single answer, which is not surprising really given there were 6 of us all with slightly different starting points.

Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on August 07, 2012, 09:37:47 AM

Transsexuals have described their transitions as changing from a caterpillar to a butterfly.

That's EXACTLY how i feel...

I'm on estrogen to be able to appear more feminine... be more feminine. In the future I intend to look more androgynous. But who knows, I could easily decide to just go all the way.

Quote from: Padma on August 04, 2012, 12:54:24 AM
I'm finding my present fluidity of self (and gender) pretty disconcerting in a way, but at  same time just spot on. Even though I'm going through an MTF transition, the woman I am wants to be masculine. And why not.

I get this. I've been thinking about it since I first read your post.
Although I don't think of myself as going through a MTF transition, I am changing from the HRT that I'm doing.
It's a part of the change that I want for myself.
It's kind of weirding me out that as the HRT is 'activating' (I Robot, lol) the female in me, 'she' seems to want to be more masculine than I had thought would want to be. At first, I just thought of it as the male side of me fighting back, despite myself's intentions.
But that statement strikes a cord of recognition that I wasn't ready for, or hadn't anticipated.
What a long strange trip it's been. I like it.

Ativan

Aye - I'm beginning to suspect that masculinity in me just didn't want to express itself while I was stuck looking like a man, but now that I'm feminising, I'm more free to be strong.

It's funny, I feel torn between labelling myself androgynous and labelling myself a tomboy woman, and then I keep stepping back and reminding myself that both ways it's just labels of convention, so I'm better off being uncomfortably unlabelled and just seeing what my experience is and how it changes.

Quote from: Jamie D on August 07, 2012, 01:13:20 AM
What does one transition TO, if they are bi-gendered?

Perhaps simply the same place as one does if they aren't bi-gendered. A state of being whereby one finds one's equilibrium.

Years ago i wrestled with sexual terminology
heterosexual, homosexual,trans sexual, bi sexual ect and none of them seemed to fit so i came to the conclusion that i was just  uniquely sexual.

Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on August 13, 2012, 09:06:00 PM
I get this. I've been thinking about it since I first read your post.
Although I don't think of myself as going through a MTF transition, I am changing from the HRT that I'm doing.
It's a part of the change that I want for myself.
It's kind of weirding me out that as the HRT is 'activating' (I Robot, lol) the female in me, 'she' seems to want to be more masculine than I had thought would want to be. At first, I just thought of it as the male side of me fighting back, despite myself's intentions.
But that statement strikes a cord of recognition that I wasn't ready for, or hadn't anticipated.
What a long strange trip it's been. I like it.

Ativan

Interesting post, as some 'masculine centers"in the brain need the extra estrogen or porduce their own estrogen to function 100%

I was always very assertive and independent, and when I started on E I thought I will be more feminine, but for me, as far as this "masculinity issue, well no change so far. I remain an assertive opinionated bitch! 

Quote from: peky on August 14, 2012, 07:27:45 AM
Interesting post, as some 'masculine centers"in the brain need the extra estrogen or porduce their own estrogen to function 100%

I was always very assertive and independent, and when I started on E I thought I will be more feminine, but for me, as far as this "masculinity issue, well no change so far. I remain an assertive opinionated bitch! 

I get that.
After more than a year on Spiro, I thought the effects of it on the T would have cancelled that out. Hah! Maybe I have remained the same as I always am, too.
Time will tell. The assertive opinionated bitch in me usually won out anyways and still does. Perhaps it isn't a function of hormones at all, but just attitude.
Which I can appreciate. 

Ativan

I don't understand. Almost all the females I've known are assertive or aggressive. Why did you think that would change? Why is that being called masculine?