I found this really fascinating. He says he suddenly stopped crying because it caught him off guard and sounded so strange. Of course, I'm sure this is as he said mostly related to how it just sounded strange due to being unexpected and his first time crying with that voice. At the same I can't help but wonder how much societal conditioning is impacting. "I"m a man. Men aren't supposed to cry!"

It dares to yet again raise that nature vs. nurture argument again. Many guys say they are less emotional on T or they cry less. Is it a direct result or more the result of other things and conforming to societal expectations of maleness?

i cry more when I watch sad Tv shows (army wives leaves me a dissolving mess lol) but i cry less for real life things.
i used to cry when i got really upset or frustrated, but now I'm more apt to get mad. not like, throwing things mad, just kinda simmering "grr". i never realy cried when i was sad, except when a pet died :C

I can't speak for anyone else but I can certainly say that being on T hasn't affected my ability to cry. I honestly don't think that testosterone affects the ability to cry in and of itself. I tear up just as easily as I did before T. In fact, my husband and I both teared up about two days ago. I think a lot of the "T makes it so you can't cry" is societal and maybe that the hormones make the person feel more happy. I am less prone to crying because I feel depressed - but that's because I feel less depressed. My husband (bio guy) and I were both taught that it was okay to cry, so we don't feel any shame in it.

I personally find it very sad that many boys are taught at a young age that crying isn't okay. I'm the oldest child of 6 in my family (and the only "girl"), and I have told my father so many times that its okay for my younger brothers to cry. Failing that, I told them it was okay. I'm just glad that my brothers know its okay to cry. I can't imagine how it must feel to be taught that expressing sadness is a bad thing.

Quote from: Ayden on August 18, 2012, 08:31:33 AM
I am less prone to crying because I feel depressed - but that's because I feel less depressed.

Excellent! I have wondered this about a lot of trans guys. Maybe you're just not sad as much for obvious reasons.

QuoteMy husband (bio guy) and I were both taught that it was okay to cry, so we don't feel any shame in it.

Also a cis guy here and I have said before that I cry easily, sometimes even when I'd like very much not to, like at a moment when it's just plain awkward. I think back and recall my dad saying that I was always very sensitive, but he never spoke about it like it was a bad thing. In fact he seemed to appreciate that about me and even seemed to treat it as a positive quality. I have a lot of beefs about my dad, but he did get some things right. He did his best to make me feel okay about being gay, for instance, at a time when there was a lot more taboo surrounding it. It may have even saved me from a certain amount of abuse. I learned that my dad beat my brother a lot. I only got spanked once by him in my teens to my recollection. My dad even said one time that it didn't seem necessary to hit me because I would visibly cringe and and cower just when he would raise his voice (maybe because I saw what he did to my brother?). It's a little disturbing when I reflect back on that with the knowledge that he was so abusive in general.

QuoteI can't imagine how it must feel to be taught that expressing sadness is a bad thing.

*applause*

I do wish that I could control it better when it's embarrassing to do so, but overall I'm glad I can cry when I need to.

I usually silent cry, I don't think that will change when I get on T but who knows...

I feel as if I'm physically unable to all out ball. My eyes feel on the dry side and the most I do is shed a few tears.

I was never one to cry much even before HRT. I was never one to cry from physical pain or because something was "sad" per se.
I only cry when I can't deal with built up stress any longer and that's pretty much how it's always been.

On one hand, I'm not entirely willing to cite T as a reason for being unable to cry. But I have been in a LOT of situations lately where pre-transition me would cry and I just haven't shed a tear. In fact I still get caught off-guard by that fact, and find myself wishing I were able to let it out and get the negativity out. Instead of sadness I definitely feel more anger. And T is the furthest thing from my mind all the time, the novelty wore off really quick so I no longer think "oh I'm on T so that's why this is happening." It's just the way things are going for me. There's gotta be something to it. Whether hormones are just allowing me to come into my own, or if it's something about testosterone itself that usually lends itself to anger over sadness in the face of stress and negativity.

im finding it harder to  cry - even when enduring physical pain, i dropped a pond on myself (lol?) and landed on some rocks, and i wanted to cry, all the signs were there, instead the tears never came and i just stood there like an idiot hyperventilating in frustration  silly bodies

I've shed a few tears but not cried to the point where my voice was involved since starting T. I doubt it has anything to do with hormones, but more with my situation improving and feeling more in-control of things.

I actually never thought of it sounding different. That guys reaction sounded pretty funny though.

When I was a kid, I cried at least once everyday. I was so much emotional and cried more frequently than girls. Also, boys harassed me and I cried. My nicknames at that time were like crybaby, girl, woman and etc. It stopped when I entered high school and all classmates had to study hard to pass exams for college.

Barbie~~

Quote from: RagingShadow on August 18, 2012, 07:41:14 AM
i cry more when I watch sad Tv shows (army wives leaves me a dissolving mess lol) but i cry less for real life things.
i used to cry when i got really upset or frustrated, but now I'm more apt to get mad. not like, throwing things mad, just kinda simmering "grr". i never realy cried when i was sad, except when a pet died :C

This is me pretty much.  I barely cried when my uncle or a good friend died, but I like straight up bawl at commercials, and tv shows.

I'm a total cry-er. It could very well be wrapped up in the fact that I'm also legitimately empathetic. Sometimes OTHER people's emotions overwhelm me. I wouldn't say I get emotional the same way as a female does though. For me, it's different. I can't really explain it.

I think as a whole though, society still views crying as a weakness – especially if you're male.

Quote from: dalebert on August 18, 2012, 07:34:44 AM
Many guys say they are less emotional on T or they cry less. Is it a direct result or more the result of other things and conforming to societal expectations of maleness?

From a reverse perspective, I could say that before being on HRT, I was very bad at crying. I couldn't do it very often, or very deeply, compared to how I've been able to cry since HRT has taken effect.

So, in my experience, I would say that testosterone impaired my ability to cry. To be angry, or to experience most other emotions, was, however, very easy. I certainly wanted to be able to cry, and cry well, and that desire persists to this day - except, now it is more an appreciation of the fact that I can cry, and do so meaningfully. Nothing has changed, really, though I am somewhat less depressed.

On that basis, I say that societal conditioning has a relatively small effect on whether a testosterone'd person cries or not.

Quote from: dalebert on August 18, 2012, 09:07:22 AM
Also a cis guy here and I have said before that I cry easily, sometimes even when I'd like very much not to, like at a moment when it's just plain awkward. I think back and recall my dad saying that I was always very sensitive, but he never spoke about it like it was a bad thing. In fact he seemed to appreciate that about me and even seemed to treat it as a positive quality. I have a lot of beefs about my dad, but he did get some things right. He did his best to make me feel okay about being gay, for instance, at a time when there was a lot more taboo surrounding it. It may have even saved me from a certain amount of abuse. I learned that my dad beat my brother a lot. I only got spanked once by him in my teens to my recollection. My dad even said one time that it didn't seem necessary to hit me because I would visibly cringe and and cower just when he would raise his voice (maybe because I saw what he did to my brother?). It's a little disturbing when I reflect back on that with the knowledge that he was so abusive in general.

Its interesting, because my dad was actually much, much harder on me even though I'm the only biological female in the family, but I suspect it was because of a few reasons, mostly that I was the oldest and we are too similar to have one of us in a position of power. Our family was a pretty rough place with my dad always working and my mother strung out on whatever drug was her choice that month. Crying was pretty much how I stayed sane through some of the times. I used to end up with three crying kids in my bed when I was teenager all the time, and I think that oddly, it made us all closer and helped them to get through that time relatively okay. It was my mom who encouraged us to cry when we were younger, and like you with your dad, its one of the things she got spot on and it stuck with the brothers too. I can't tell you the number of times they have called me crying - the last time my second brother was upset and then angry that he couldn't stop crying. He was in the bathroom as his school, poor kid. I totally get the crying at awkward times.

Your experience reminds me of my oldest little brother though - he's 18 now, but he has always been a very sensitive person. Rather than my father berating him now he appreciates that he is so consciouses of others feelings and is as empathetic as he is. It took a while, but I'm glad my father finally got there. I remember once my dad yelled at my brother to stop crying and act his age during one of my holiday visits after I left home. He and I ended up in a shouting match, and he told me later that he remembered what I said before I walked out of the room to find my brother - "Never tell your kids they can't have emotions. We're not your puppets." We always fought, but he told me that it reminded him of our last argument before I ran away at 16.

Its also nice to heard that your father was supportive of you. It's still a hard lot of gay men and lesbians, its certainly gotten a damn sight better, but there is a long way to go sadly. I'm glad you had support when you needed it. I hope my dad can be as supportive like yours - my brother told me a few years ago that he was gay. I remember the conversation pretty well. It was before I began transition and he called me. It was something like this:

"Sis, I'm gay."
"Okay."
"Okay? That's it?"
"Yep."
"Huh. Hope dad's that easy to tell. He lets me bawl my eyes out, but he got ticked when he thought I was checking out Bruce Willis."
"Bruce Willis, huh? Alan Rickman's way better. So, how'd you do on that test?"  

It was the same when I told him I was trans. "So, bro - I'm transitioning - I'm a dude." (exact words)
"I always wondered why you couldn't do your hair. ... Explains the sock cock I found when I was looking for your diary too." 

I do wonder though, honestly, what life would have been like if we had been taught that crying was a sign of weakness. I don't even want to imagine how hard it would have been for my brothers. Its sad that society tells men that emotions make them weak. Whatever happened to the Renaissance men, y'know?

Quote from: Ayden on August 19, 2012, 01:53:14 AM
I do wonder though, honestly, what life would have been like if we had been taught that crying was a sign of weakness. I don't even want to imagine how hard it would have been for my brothers. Its sad that society tells men that emotions make them weak. Whatever happened to the Renaissance men, y'know?

It is sad. I see crying, and the ability to cry, as a beautiful expression. I would hope that the person I end up with, if there indeed is such a person, would cry every now and then - though, that desire is in conflict with my desire for them to not be unhappy.

Showing emotions is wonderful, and if a guy does so, I find him more attractive. I really hope it catches on...

its harder to cry on T, its like even if I want too I just cant, so I feel more like I get very annoyed, which was hard to get used too.
--
I think its a good way to cry to get away with your emotions, but on the other hand I also always hated to cry so I both like and dislike the changings.
when I was small I always tried to hide it so much that I would sound very very strange like someone was strangling me and it would only make it worse. I dont remember my grown up sound when I cry since I stopped making sounds when I cry as I got into my teen years.

I'm still of the mindset that we are conditioned as men to conform to expectations of not expressing emotion. It's not a conscious thing. It's ingrained in us.

Quote from: dalebert on August 19, 2012, 01:09:04 PM
I'm still of the mindset that we are conditioned as men to conform to expectations of not expressing emotion. It's not a conscious thing. It's ingrained in us.

And you are saying this is why we can't cry after T?  I don't buy it.

Quote from: dalebert on August 19, 2012, 01:09:04 PM
I'm still of the mindset that we are conditioned as men to conform to expectations of not expressing emotion. It's not a conscious thing. It's ingrained in us.

That's interesting.
So, if this was the case with trans guys as well, do you think that's because after T many subconsciously feel fully accepted as men and begin adjusting to those social pressures?