as you may know already, I have a bit of hate for my hands, but things like this keep popping from time to time:

QuoteIf your ring finger is longer than your index fingers, you are not truly transexual

Or

Quote"While in the womb, the second (index finger) and the fourth (ring finger) are influenced by exposure to androgens such as testosterone. The differences between a person's second and fourth fingers can give scientists an indication of the amount of androgens they were exposed to in the womb. In men, the second finger tends to be shorter than the fourth finger, and in females the second finger tends to be the same size or slightly longer than the fourth. Male-to-female transsexuals and gay males have finger lengths that are on average the same as biological females, and lesbians have finger lengths that are on average the same as males."

I am in the 4D:2D ratio and my ringer finger is a bit longer than my index when measured. Am I then a liar and the dysphoria and self-hate is only something I have invented, or this is complete BS? Am I a fake because of how my hands are shaped?


Really, these things completely kill all my hopes, it feels as being told "You are a man, go back to being a man, you are not a woman inside and you don't have any hormonal woman inside".

Its just an old wives tale, ignore your finger size.

Could possibly be a pile of equine crap. I lean towards a more male ratio. I must be a lesbian or summat. But it's good to question everything and to have doubts.

I know a few GGs whose fingers do not fit the profile. I haven't seen or recall any hard statistics like, is "Most women" really 50.000001 % of women have..... Just the engineer and cynic in me wondering. I deal a lot with salespeople and MBAs

Overall, I wouldn't place any credance on any gender tests or indicators or this or that. No one can satisfy ALL the requirements which makes the results of failing, or fitting, any one of them bogus.

Advice from the Bostonian: The person with the biggest middle finger has the right-of-way!

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on August 22, 2012, 06:22:41 PM
Advice from the Bostonian: The person with the biggest middle finger has the right-of-way!

lol!

Well, I don't know, I have noticed a lot of women, who are not gay or trans who have a ring finger way longer than their index finger. My index finger is maybe 1/4 of an inch longer than my ring finger: I doubt that quarter of an inch can determine who I am or how I feel... Don't y'all think?


@Michael Joseph
On a different note: Are you really a FTM? You look so handsome and attractive, I would have never thought you were FTM. I would think you were born a man, a very attractive one at that!! :-)

Hey , back off, he's my guy next door!

And if you have webbed fingers then you must be a duck.

That's the good thing about self-determination and the sentience of humanity. It gives you the ability to discover and assert who you are based on slightly more than how big your appendages may or may not be. After all, those born without fingers, for whatever reason, aren't genderless, are they?

@not there yet: yea i really am ftm lol but thank you!
@devlyn: haha:)

My hands actually differ in this. On the right hand it's "female" on the left it's "male." So I think this wive's tale is a crock!

Supposedly, this estimates your in womb hormone levels. Estimates. So for most people it gives a general idea... if we assume it's accurate and we assume that it's the determining factor in being trans and we assume there aren't other factors or multiple possible causes, then you wouldn't be trans. I woudldn't be either. That's a whole lot of assumptions though.

Quote
Really, these things completely kill all my hopes, it feels as being told "You are a man, go back to being a man, you are not a woman inside and you don't have any hormonal woman inside".

You are going to get that kind of message anyway, it doesn't have anything to do with your finger length or your voice or your mannerisms or how you dress or your job or... you know any of the things we're made to worry about. We don't get told that kind of thing because of any quality in ourselves, it's completely about the qualities in other people.

So, here goes the abstract to one of the papers that has caused such a coniption.
Note that the numbers analyzed are too small for the study to be extrapolated to the whole human population. More important, the genes involved in bone sexual dimorphism are not involved in regulating brain sexual dimosrphism.

Sop it is OK to have the wrong bones, and be who you are in your head.


Arch Sex Behav. 2009 Jun;38(3):359-63. Epub 2007 Sep 29.

Finger length ratio (2D:4D) in adults with gender identity disorder.

Kraemer B, Noll T, Delsignore A, Milos G, Schnyder U, Hepp U.


Source

Department of Psychiatry, University Hospital Zurich, Culmannstrasse 8, Zurich, Switzerland. bernd.kraemer@usz.ch


Abstract

From early childhood, gender identity and the 2nd to 4th finger length ratio (2D:4D) are discriminative characteristics between sexes. Both the human brain and 2D:4D may be influenced by prenatal testosterone levels. This calls for an examination of 2D:4D in patients with gender identity disorder (GID) to study the possible influence of prenatal testosterone on gender identity. Until now, the only study carried out on this issue suggests lower prenatal testosterone levels in right-handed male-to-female GID patients (MtF). We compared 2D:4D of 56 GID patients (39 MtF; 17 female-to-male GID patients, FtM) with data from a control sample of 176 men and 190 women. Bivariate group comparisons showed that right hand 2D:4D in MtF was significantly higher (feminized) than in male controls, but similar to female controls. The comparison of 2D:4D ratios of biological women revealed significantly higher (feminized) values for right hands of right handed FtM. Analysis of variance confirmed significant effects for sex and for gender identity on 2D:4D ratios but not for sexual orientation or for the interaction among variables. Our results indirectly point to the possibility of a weak influence of reduced prenatal testosterone as an etiological factor in the multifactorially influenced development of MtF GID. The development of FtM GID seems even more unlikely to be notably influenced by prenatal testosterone.

Here is an older paper with an even smaller sample size

Psychoneuroendocrinology. 2006 Feb;31(2):265-9. Epub 2005 Sep 2.

Typical female 2nd-4th finger length (2D:4D) ratios in male-to-female transsexuals-possible implications for prenatal androgen exposure.

Schneider HJ, Pickel J, Stalla GK.


Source

Clinical Neuroendocrinology Group, Max Planck Institute of Psychiatry, Kraepelinstrasse 10, 80804 Munich, Germany. schneider@mpipskyl.mpg.de


Abstract

Prenatal exposure to androgens has been implicated in transsexualism but the etiology of the condition remains unclear. The ratio of the 2nd to the 4th (2D:4D) digit lengths has been suggested to be negatively correlated to prenatal androgen exposure. We wanted to assess differences in 2D:4D ratio between transsexuals and controls. Sixty-three male-to-female transsexuals (MFT), 43 female-to-male transsexuals (FMT), and 65 female and 58 male controls were included in the study. Photo copies of the palms and digits of the hands were taken of all subjects and 2D:4D ratios were measured, according to standard published procedures. Comparison between right-handed individuals revealed that the right-hand 2D:4D in MFT is higher than in control males but similar to that observed in control females. In FMT we found no differences in 2D:4D relative to control females. Our findings support a biological etiology of male-to-female transsexualism, implicating decreased prenatal androgen exposure in MFT. We have found no indication of a role of prenatal hormone exposure in female-to-male transsexualism

My index fingers are longer on each hand. My girlfriend has a longer ring finger, she's actually more masculine than I am in many way.