Has anyone been prescribed low dose hrt for slow or non-apparent (to others) transition? If so, what kind of changes have you seen and when? I cant start for a few years for various reasons. I'm 40 now. I have small hands, feet, genitals. A persistent tummy and lifelong man boobs.

Things I'm not concerned about: skin changes, face changes, body hair, genital shrinkage, loss of libido, emotion, butt/legs growth.

Things I'm vet concerned about: breast growth, voice change, emotion, belly weight gain.

Can anyone share they're personal experience? Would especially like to hear from someone my age.

Thanks!

I can't actually help you with any of your questions but I am researching this for myself. I want to do low dose T. The thing htat I have found is that there are some effects that will reverse and some that will not. The big issue is that you need to know what the ones that won't reverse are and if you can live with them.

--Jay Jay

There are several topics in the Androgyne Forum that discuss the current thinking, merits, and drawbacks to low dose HRT.

You should be able to receive much of this information from your medical provider.

Unless you are FtM, hormones will not appreciably affect your voice.

Quote from: dana510 on August 17, 2012, 05:41:25 PM
Has anyone been prescribed low dose hrt for slow or non-apparent (to others) transition? If so, what kind of changes have you seen and when? I cant start for a few years for various reasons. I'm 40 now. I have small hands, feet, genitals. A persistent tummy and lifelong man boobs.

I'm on low dose HRT but not for transition purposes - i need it for mental stability. However, i'm bigender and I have to admit that my female side loves the changes that have happened. I've been on low dose HRT for about 2 years now.

Quote from: dana510 on August 17, 2012, 05:41:25 PM
Things I'm not concerned about: skin changes, face changes, body hair, genital shrinkage, loss of libido, emotion, butt/legs growth.

Skin changes? Yes, my skin is a lot softer now, and the pores have shrunk. My complexion is a lot clearer now too.
Face changes? Everyone keeps telling me that i have not aged and that i've lost weight. I flew recently and the TSA agent looked back and forth at the pic on my DL (pre HRT) and me and after a long time of thinking about it she said that I had lost half of me. I think that they are seeing changes in my face. After two years I can also see some changes in my face but no one has ever called me mam; the changes are subtle but really pop out when i put makeup on.
Body hair: Much slower growth on legs and chest. The need to shave my face seems to have slowed down just a bit also.
Shrinkage? Some. Mr happy is not quite as happy these days. That's ok with me.
Emotion? OMG..... i can cry at the drop of a hat and sometimes it hits out of the blue for no reason. It's not all bad and it sure beats the male experience of being an emotional stone. I just have to be aware of it and guard myself in emotional situations to keep from bursting into tears.
Butt/Legs growth? Yes. My jeans fit differently now. The butt is noticeably tighter.

Quote from: dana510 on August 17, 2012, 05:41:25 PM
Things I'm vet concerned about: breast growth, voice change, emotion, belly weight gain.

breast growth? I've got some A cups. They can be hidden by wearing dark baggy shirts, and they are well within the old guy "moob" range. No one except my wife has said anything. I don't feel comfortable taking my shirt off these days in public.
voice change? Didn't happen
Emotion? Already covered
Belly weight gain? If you are going on low dose HRT it would be an excellent time to make better healthier choices with meals and make sure that you get some exercise because the belly is VERY prone to gaining weight on HRT. Managing a healthy weight becomes a little harder. A nice daily walk would be an excellent idea.

Quote from: dana510 on August 17, 2012, 05:41:25 PM
Would especially like to hear from someone my age.

I'm 49. Hope this info has helped ya.

Quote from: riven1 on August 19, 2012, 05:44:58 AM
I'm on low dose HRT but not for transition purposes - i need it for mental stability.

I have been considering this also. Wondering what you take?
I mostly want improved mood, femanation is welcome but i dont want boobs if i could help it. Nipple change would be ok, but i just dont want C size saggers.

I'm on "low dose" HRT - effectively what would typically be called half dosage for those who are intending to transition.
I was on estradiol valerate only for 6 weeks, then added in spiro since.  Total time on HRT about 5 months, I'm somewhere between 35-40 years of age.

Skin changes - yes.  Dry skin on face now, used to have combination skin - moisturiser is now essential.
Face changes - some softening of facial features.  People are saying I look young for my age (especially after they find out how long I've been in my job).
Body hair - grows a little more slowly after epilation.  I still have a few stragglers on the face which I didn't get round to zapping with electro and those have really slowed down in growth rate.
Emotionally - dysphoria reduced to manageable levels - it's no longer at the forefront of things.  Libido has reduced.  I feel more emotive now, but not quite at the stage where I would say  I can cry at the drop of a hat, but I can say I can get close.
Some fat redistribution - it's moving downwards - I've had some weight gain this month (not enough exercise, too much food) but instead of the waist getting tighter, it's further down.
Breast growth - early tanner stage 2, some knotting, very very tender.  Eensy weensy nipples, aereoles slightly larger, and I can notice some slight jiggling there when I run/jump.  Keeping the weight down and HRT dosage low is probably a good way to minimise growth if that's an area of concern.  Note that that may not prevent changes to the nipples/aereoles.
Voice doesn't change with HRT for MTF.

My endo says there are no hard/fast rules regarding low dose HRT for managing GID for non-transitioners - it's really a case of playing around with dosages till you and your endo find something that:
a) is safe
b) gives you a sense of well being
c) only causes desirable changes

Remember that the main irreversible changes are:
1.  Breast growth
2.  Areola/nipple enlargement
3.  Sterility

If any of the above are unacceptable, then low dose HRT may not be for you.

Quote from: joann on August 19, 2012, 07:16:57 AM
I have been considering this also. Wondering what you take?
I mostly want improved mood, femanation is welcome but i dont want boobs if i could help it. Nipple change would be ok, but i just dont want C size saggers.

oestradiol in pill form along with dutasteride for an AA.

I was having dysphoria "attacks" and after 3 particularly horrible episodes over a few month period I knew that I needed help. I started low dose HRT and the attacks tapered off. A doctor described it as my brain needing a chemical that my body cannot make and that makes sense to me.

YMMV but for me physical changes came slowly. It's been two years and I only have A cups. They are still growing slowly but I don't think that a C cup sagger is anywhere in my future.

I'm bigender and have to make sure that any changes that happen to my body are acceptable to both genders or the dysphoria will kick back in. HRT's changes have been subtle and slow enough for boy mode to accept them and for girl mode to be happy with them. It's all about finding a balance for me.

Hi Dana,

Although I can't comment from the perspective of low dose HRT. I can tell you it's a bit of a lottery for all. A lot hangs on your specific genetics and how the hormones are absorbed.

However, no amount of HRT will change your voice. That comes purely with practice. Everything else you are concerned about, including fat redistribution round the belly, all comes under the heading of the HRT lottery.

And remember; You have to be in it to win it.

Be safe,well and happy
Lotsa huggs
Catherine

The main purpose of low dose HRT is for mental/emotional stability. In the YMMV spirit, what that takes can be quite low. Or, at typical transitional levels there may not be much mood improvement.

Adjusting your dose to fairly low levels of E is readily accomplished. Many docs these days seem to want to start MTFs out on an anti-androgen first. A couple of girls I know reported mood changes just from that so E may not even be required in your case.

Thanks everyone! Great info!

Riven, would you PM me? I have a private question?

When considering "Mental Clarity/ Mood issues"  Is  T the enemy or is E what you need?. Seems a lot of people feel the former, I think the latter in my case.
I am taking T and my E levels  rose ( because of heavy drinking which has been greatly attenuated) making me feel human for the first time.

Thinking same thing, spiro and low e.  would like to see if that bring enough "comfort". Thoughts?

Going to stop taking Testosterone.
Its not doing much for me and my mood are going waco. P.O one minute weepy the next.
About the only positive thing its done is that it allows me to exercise without getting sore.
A little muscle gain in my legs but nowhere else.
On a scale of 1-10 libido went from a 4 to a 2.
No help on weight. And im growing peach fuzz all over my back and face. I look like a makak.

Im thinking that it sent my E levels on a roller coaster ride and now they are low. Will wait a month and get a base line before starting low does E.

I just wanted to say that I enjoy coming here as it makes me realize I'm not alone. If I stay around "normal" people too long, I start to feel like I'm crazy.

Due to differences in individuals, hrt can be a lot like depression meds in that it may involve a lot of "trial and error" I would think patience is the best thing one could have.

Quote from: rrecroc on August 23, 2012, 03:13:23 PM
I just wanted to say that I enjoy coming here as it makes me realize I'm not alone. If I stay around "normal" people too long, I start to feel like I'm crazy.

Welcome aboard rrecroc

Ahh... Normal ,What is normal? I like to use the words  Ordinary and unique to describe the differences in gender. I takes away the negative implications.

I'm about four months into my own dr-supervised HRT regimen which consists solely of low-dose estrodiol and NO anti-androgen. The latest blood test shows that my testosterone levels are slowly dropping (down 50 points from 4 months ago) and estrogen is rising. I would describe the experience as "painfully slow" but at the same time very easy to digest, and so far completely un-noticed by those I've not told.

Mental/emotional changes are happening. I'm much more emotionally reactive and aware, and while I have had some easily manageable episodes of high-emotion, I've yet to experience anything I can't handle or hide.

Physically, my body hair (and I have lots ) is coming in a teeny, tiny bit slower, and the hair on my legs is started to get a little patchier/thinner. My tenancy for getting zillions of ingrowns when removing body hair is also getting better. My skin has just started to show signs of dryness - arms and legs mostly.

My face has changed very subtly - I sometimes maintain facial hair so it is easy to hide, my cheek bones are slightly more pronounced and my eye shape has changed. If I take a pic of myself and crop out just my eyes - they look female. With facial hair, it has made me look younger and cuter as a guy.

My chest is growing, slowly but surely. I'm nearly at the point of needing to wear a compression tank under t-shirts. When I'm wearing a shirt that shows the growth, I'm a little self-conscious, but so long as I present and act male, even when I see people occasionally notice them they simply ignore them, so no big deal as yet.

Libido is unchanged. I've got a touch of AG which I'm looking forward to losing once my T levels come down some more, but all of my natural 'equipment' still looks and acts healthy.

My doc just doubled my E dosage yesterday (which is still a very low dose - less than half of what his fully transitioning patients are on), so we'll see what is to come.


I think it is entirely possible to use low-dose E to begin your transition in stealth. I would recommend forgoing an anti-androgen at first since that will wipe out your T levels quickly and cause a lot of changes quickly. You can experience change at a slower rate by using E-only to bring down your T levels at a slower rate.

Good luck!

Just to clarify something: I am FAAB. I can pretty much assure you that unless you are a MAAB, C cup aren't "saggers". Probably an "average" cup size.

--Jay Jay

Im MAAB. As i learn more about hormones i realize at 51 years of age there not going to come in "way up front and high" and probably be A cup at best.
Actualy., loss of muscle strength is now a greater concern. 

you can keep you muscle loss to a minimum by exercising regularly.

Quote from: Venus-Castina on August 25, 2012, 01:31:13 PM
Hi Dana, I'm not exactly your age but I have self-medicated a low dose hrt for about 9 months in anticipation of prescriptions from the gender clinic. The reason I decided on a low dose was primarily because of safety. The anti androgens reduced my testosterone level to <1.0 nmol/L (unmeasurable) and raised my estrogen level to 180 pmol/L:  high in the male range.

skin changes - My skin became soft and less greased. My hair became more dry. The soft skin makes shaving painful now and then.
face changes - Rounder when compared to pre hrt pictures but not very noticeable to people because it is a very gradual change.
body hair - Leg hair became thin and blonde, armpit hair grows much slower. Belly hair remains.
facial hair - Became blonde and grows slower
genital shrinkage - The 'thing' has shrunk to half its original length
loss of libido - Noticeable loss, no spontaneous erections. Erections are only achieved with the help of my girlfriend.
emotion - Less stable
butt/legs growth. - Noticeable butt, legs stayed the same

breast growth - A-cup, nIt depends on the clothing if it is noticeable
voice change - None due to hormones
belly weight gain - Lost 20 pounds
Strength - Declined to the point I can't open jars.

Great info. I love that you got a noticeable butt and minus 20 lbs out of the deal!