I'm pre-everything and will be until I get some stuff sorted first. I am, however, still trying to live as much as a guy as I can which, admittedly, isn't much since I look female (and probably will until I get on T). Should I still try? I'm entering university this year. Although I live in a conservative city, I have seen other trans men around, so it's not unheard of. Should I ask my teachers to refer to me as male or just let it slide until I can start T? How would I go about asking them anyway?
And a probably silly question: what bathrooms do I use if I can't pass, but I'm trying to live as male?

I began socially transitioning a year before I started T.  I changed my name at work to a male version of my name.  I had people start calling me it.  I also came out to people I felt comfortable with and had them address me as a male. I also started using the male bathroom when I felt confident enough.  I have never had a problem with using the male bathroom pre T - guys don't care.

I would say go for it.  Then when you start T you don't have to go around explaining yourself. If folks already think of you as a guy

Do not try to live as male if you can't pass. Trust me, people get weirded out by these sorts of things. You can come across as a tomboy if anything, but don't try to go male until you are certain you can pass. It may be tempting, but think about it first. What would a bunch of guys do if they saw a girl in their bathroom or locker room? What if a guy went into the girl's bathroom? The point is, you'll get in trouble and labeled as some perv and//or slut. Just let things slide until you start HRT. Once you're ready to go full time, tell all of your teachers that you're trans and that you want to be treated as male. They'll likely make an announcement to the students. That's what happened in my school. Most importantly, don't just drop in presenting as male without some warning. People might be taken aback.

I would say you can change your name and dress in a guy-ish manner, but that's it. All I saw was "conservative", so I'd say be cautious in this place. I must say that Robert does make a good point, if guys saw a girl in their locker rooms, they might actually like it, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

I'd go with DianaP on this one, especially if you are just entering into university life.

Generally men don't interact with one another in the men's room, chattiness in the bathroom is more of a female attribute, so if you are really a masculine looking female no-one will give a hoot about you using the plumbing there as they are just there to take care of business and leave quickly without conversation or eye contact. However if you are feminine in any way and venture into a college men's room you may be asking for a nasty experience. These kids have raging hormones and much of the brainwave activity is centered on sex. Take DianaP's advice for now and just go tomboy for the time being. Once you are on T for a length of time and have masculinized sufficiently you might try out the men's room outside of a college setting.

My son socially transitioned while in college.  He even moved into a male dorm with a male roomate before starting T.  The school worked well with him.  No one knew he wasn't male.  Then when he started T his guy friends were like it's about time you started puberty.  They just assumed he was a late bloomer.   

Robert,
      We know it's do-able, what we don't know is how really feminine and petite Edge really is without a full body and facial photo in which case it would be irresponsible for me to offer encouragement to jump right in with both feet. Young CIS males on college campuses are full of themselves and visually stimulated, they enjoy showing off their sexual prowess in front of others. I wouldn't want someone to become a statistic on my advice, not having all the facts.

It may sound silly but do what you think is going to work out best.

If presenting as male is going to cause more drama& pain for you, then wait until you believe it will won't.

I asked for pronouns/preferred name only months before I started Testosterone.
Thinking back it was kind of awkward because of my voice and features looking female but for me, being called the right name and pronouns was worth any weirdness that happened.

Well there are levels fo social transition, afaik. I never pass for more than seconds at a time. So that using an androgynous name and using male pronouns (don't think that they would work much of the time) might help you psychologically. I am having people at work call me by an androgynous nickname. I correct people  who are mostly trying to comply. I just said "Please call me ________". Only a couple people asked why. I did not ask for male pronouns.

Dressing as male has never gotten me as much as a strange glance or anything. It is very accepted, at least where I live. (Though I am most likely read as lesbian or soft butch.) I don't live in a very conservative area though.

I personally do not use male bathrooms.  If I can I use single stall bathrooms as I don't feel like a woman. It is more a psychological thing for me of being in gendered space. OTOH, my gender therapist told me that if I wanted to walk in, not talk to anyone or establish eye contact, and use a stall. No one would say or do anything. He's a transguy so he probably knows this stuff. I don't think I could pull it off.

--Jay Jay

I'm pre-T as well,

I don't use the guys restroom unless usually i have a guy friend scope out the place and say its ok lol, but if im with girls they always try to get me in the girls restroom (i just have to change my voice and act very girly if i go in.. which i hate to do but is very good at it lol). I have a big disphoria for bathrooms, I pass as male to girls at least to my generation older woman just stare at me weird when i enter a ladies restroom. To guys they really don't care. I've been into the guys locker room at like 24 hour fitness lol and they usually just stare never question. Some men ususally read us as a gay guy because we do look feminine.

I'm starting my 3rd year in college, ive been social transitioning for about 7 years now and at school they usually call me by my real name and i just correct them but i get alot of stares. This year im emailing my teachers to make sure they call me by my desired name so i dont get stares again.. Well my real name is Danielle so i guess its not a dramatic change when i correct them into calling me Dany, but still i understand feeling that uncomfortableness of correcting them everytime they do roll call.

Since it took me a while to get on T...I came out at work and at school, asking them to use my preferred name (the sooner you legally change it, the better, but I know in your case you might not plan to) and male pronouns. It was a challenge at times, but better than living as female as far as I was concerned. I only used the men's bathrooms if it was in a safe/quiet environment, preferred the unisex ones where they existed. Men's changerooms, unfortunately might be a bit of a stretch without T.

Just do it where you can and where you feel safe.

Thanks for the advice everyone.
I think I will take the advice on using gender neutral bathrooms if I can and using female ones if I have to. I think I will, however, be open about being a guy.
Don't worry. I've lived and walked in much more dangerous places than a university and no one has ever attacked me. If they were to, I know how defend myself. Thanks for your concern though.
None of the students know me because I'm from another province and I've been presenting as guy (although not correcting pronoun use) for the past several months, so I don't think it would be much of a shock especially among the younger crowd.
Honestly, I have had so much positive feedback from the few people I have come out to here that I'm pretty sure the problem is invisibility rather than actual discrimination. If there is discrimination, I don't really care since I can just ignore them. Pretending to be someone I'm not harms me more than anything they can do (I've tested this).

Thanks!

I started really socially transitioning when I went to college too.  I would recommend emailing all your instructors and asking that they refer to you by your preferred name and male pronouns before you start classes, so you don't have to deal with an awkward situation on your first day and being outed to your entire class.

I started using men's bathrooms when I went to college, too.  Not saying you should if you don't feel comfortable, but if you just walk in and do your business as if there's nothing weird about you being in there, you most likely won't be bothered.

Quote from: DianaP on August 25, 2012, 11:08:10 AM
Do not try to live as male if you can't pass. Trust me, people get weirded out by these sorts of things. You can come across as a tomboy if anything, but don't try to go male until you are certain you can pass. It may be tempting, but think about it first. What would a bunch of guys do if they saw a girl in their bathroom or locker room? What if a guy went into the girl's bathroom? The point is, you'll get in trouble and labeled as some perv and//or slut. Just let things slide until you start HRT.

Safety is definitely something to think about when beginning to transition, but to say that people might be "weirded out?" That's extremely rude and invalidates non-binary people, as well as those who don't wish to take hormones/have surgery.

Quote from: DianaP on August 25, 2012, 11:08:10 AM
The point is, you'll get in trouble and labeled as some perv and//or slut. Just let things slide until you start HRT.

Perpetuating these ideas certainly isn't going to do anything to stop people from believing them. Maybe we should focus on educating the general public instead of shaming people in our community and making them feel like second class citizens. I'm not sorry if I "weird someone out" -- and why should I be? I have every right to be who I am whenever I am it.

OP: If you're ready to start transitioning, go for it. Do what you feel most comfortable doing. Don't let anything/anybody stop you from being happy.

Quote from: fooledthecrowd on August 25, 2012, 06:43:50 PM
Safety is definitely something to think about when beginning to transition, but to say that people might be "weirded out?" That's extremely rude and invalidates non-binary people, as well as those who don't wish to take hormones/have surgery.

Perpetuating these ideas certainly isn't going to do anything to stop people from believing them. Maybe we should focus on educating the general public instead of shaming people in our community and making them feel like second class citizens. I'm not sorry if I "weird someone out" -- and why should I be? I have every right to be who I am whenever I am it.

OP: If you're ready to start transitioning, go for it. Do what you feel most comfortable doing. Don't let anything/anybody stop you from being happy.

Okay, let's be realistic here. Firstly, I never said that I believe in any of this, just that some people do. Second, I wish I could see the day when people are educated, but they aren't yet. Violating their comfort zone and beliefs, which they are entitled to, is probably only going to lead to trouble. I agree with you that people should have the right to be who they want, but things aren't perfect and to say people might be taken aback or weirded out isn't rude, it's realistic. If you don't believe me, tell one of your guy friends to walk into the girl's bathroom at a school or a girl to walk into a guy's locker room. I've seen people get into detention for doing these exact things, so try to open your eyes to the real world. Sorry for being the bearer of bad news, but not everyone is accepting of us.

Quote from: edderkopp on August 25, 2012, 02:45:58 PM
Since it took me a while to get on T...I came out at work and at school, asking them to use my preferred name (the sooner you legally change it, the better, but I know in your case you might not plan to) and male pronouns. It was a challenge at times, but better than living as female as far as I was concerned. I only used the men's bathrooms if it was in a safe/quiet environment, preferred the unisex ones where they existed. Men's changerooms, unfortunately might be a bit of a stretch without T.

Just do it where you can and where you feel safe.

This. You can take steps, but I would be careful of men's rooms. If you want to start your social transition then you can and should if it will help you. But, be careful and stay safe - I used unisex bathrooms when I had to, and when they were not available I bit the bullet and used the ladies. I haven't used a men's locker room since I am still pre-op and I would recommend against it.

Quote from: fooledthecrowd on August 25, 2012, 06:43:50 PM
Safety is definitely something to think about when beginning to transition, but to say that people might be "weirded out?" That's extremely rude and invalidates non-binary people, as well as those who don't wish to take hormones/have surgery. Perpetuating these ideas certainly isn't going to do anything to stop people from believing them. Maybe we should focus on educating the general public instead of shaming people in our community and making them feel like second class citizens. I'm not sorry if I "weird someone out" -- and why should I be? I have every right to be who I am whenever I am it.

OP: If you're ready to start transitioning, go for it. Do what you feel most comfortable doing. Don't let anything/anybody stop you from being happy.

I think DianaP was trying to give advice to Edge with safety in mind. Sadly, people are "weirded out" by us. It sucks, but people tend to be scared of things they don't understand. I doubt DianaP was trying to shame anyone, but was just saying using a men's bathroom if you live in a conservative area could spell trouble and I agree. We can try and educate people, but we can't expect things to get better over night. There are still places in America that if a black person walked in they would be chased out. I saw it when I was visiting my family in the south and I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it. Biological sex dictates a lot of things - it isn't invalidating any one's identity. That's just the way it is.

Edge: Just be safe. When I was living in Texas, I can't tell you the number of times I had guys threaten to "give the b**** a taste of a real man". Funny since I was never into girls and 20 somethings were yelling that at 16 year old (creepy), but whatever. If you live a super conservative area, do what you can but don't put yourself in a needlessly dangerous place.

Strangely, despite being told that this is a conservative city, everyone I've come out to has been remarkably accepting except for a friend of mine who keeps referring to me as female.
DianaP and Shantel were expressing concern for my safety and I appreciate it. I also wish we lived in a world where that wasn't the case, but they have a point. The only thing I would... er.. not argue against per say, but point out is

Quote from: Shantel on August 25, 2012, 12:12:58 PMYoung CIS males on college campuses are full of themselves and visually stimulated, they enjoy showing off their sexual prowess in front of others.

How do you know I'm not the same way?

Quote from: Edge on August 26, 2012, 02:13:17 PM
Strangely, despite being told that this is a conservative city, everyone I've come out to has been remarkably accepting except for a friend of mine who keeps referring to me as female.
DianaP and Shantel were expressing concern for my safety and I appreciate it. I also wish we lived in a world where that wasn't the case, but they have a point. The only thing I would... er.. not argue against per say, but point out isHow do you know I'm not the same way?

Uh-oh you blind sided me there Edge! What do I know huh? 

If you're going to be transitioning while still in uni you may as well get people used the idea now! It'll be more of a hassle if everyone gets to know you as female then one day soon you have to explain it to them anyway.

I've been socially transitioned for 4 years, for the first couple of years I was very adamant with explaining my situation to anyone who needed to know and insisting on male pronouns but it's been so long now that I just can't be bothered with the hassle. So for a few new places I just let them assume I'm female while presenting male (binding etc) and using my legal name which is male - I often get asked if it's short for <female version of name> and I'm just like nope, and let them assume whatever.

When I actually start T which SHOULD be very soon *knocks on wood* I'm going to explain it to anyone who doesn't yet know.

You know not all my friends as well accept to the male pronouns and some do, but in my eyes.. It's ok because until the transition is set and im on T, then i will really gotta talk to them and say that if u are my friend.. you should accept with the male pronouns cuz it is wat makes me happy, etc etc. Could always talk it out with them.. I know some pplz wont accept it. But just gotta brush it off. At least thats what i do Since like i said i am as well social transitioning and some of my friends use male pronouns and some dont. Thats just how the people are and we cant make them say what they wanna say. know what i mean? lol