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Does anyone else ever feel...

Started by Tay, May 14, 2007, 07:29:06 PM

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Tay

Sometimes I feel like I will never fit in anywhere.

I do not feel like a girl or a boy, or even a combination of both, really, so I do not fit in with cisgendered people.

When I am around other transgendered people, I feel out of place because it seems that I'm stuck and they can move on.  There does not exist on this planet a set of genitals and secondary sex characteristics that fits how I feel. 

I just feel very out of place.  There is nowhere for me to transition TO, but I feel that I am put together wrong.

I suck at explaining things, though.  You probably don't get what I'm saying.
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TheBattler

Yeap - I do not fit in here to well.

I want to avoid transistion but no-one has told be how to do it.

I just saw this is in Androgyne talk. I guess I have to put my 'Guy in a skirt' face on. Here I am hoping to heck I am not fenale because of all of the implication. Thinking of me as a Androgyne might be easier.

Aliance
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Intertween

Tay,

If you could ignore realities and wave a magic wand to make things right, do you have any idea what "right" would be?

-- Sue
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Tay

#3
I'm trying to figure out what right is.  I think it would be a lack of vaginal opening, but leave the external parts (clit etc) intact.  Even more minimal breasts than what I have now, but with a softness about my chest anyway.  My voice would be a low alto or high tenor (I'm a mezzosoprano).  I'd be slightly taller than what I am now, though only by two or three inches.  I desperately want my uterus gone.

Does any of that make sense?
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Emerald

Quote from: Tay on May 15, 2007, 03:26:23 PM
I'm trying to figure out what right is.  I think it would be a lack of vaginal opening, but leave the external parts (clit etc) intact.  Even more minimal breasts than what I have now, but with a softness about my chest anyway.  My voice would be a low alto or high tenor (I'm a mezzosoprano).  I'd be slightly taller than what I am now, though only by two or three inches.

Does any of that make sense?

Tay! You are a Neutrois! A rare and wonderful gender variant!  :icon_biggrin:
And you are not alone, there are other FtN to be found in the gender garden. :icon_bunch:
Read about Neutrois here:
http://neutrois.0catch.com/faq.htm
And here:
http://neutrois.0catch.com/defin.htm
Beware of the pop-ups, this website has way too many of those annoying things.

-Emerald  :icon_mrgreen:
Androgyne.
I am not Trans-masculine, I am not Trans-feminine.
I am not Bigender, Neutrois or Genderqueer.
I am neither Cisgender nor Transgender.
I am of the 'gender' which existed before the creation of the binary genders.
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Pica Pica

Even more congratulations, you are a person first.  :laugh:

To me your words on a website, to most people you are a face in a crowd, to acquaintaces you are a bunch of different memories, to friends you are a selection of qualities good and bad that make a person they like, to your family you are loved whatever.

Most people either don't know you at all, or know you too much to care about anything but your own qualities.

however  :(

None of that really helps does it, even if it is probably closer to the truth than the isolation feelings.


Sucks being a person sometimes, don't it.

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Tay

Actually, I'm demonised by my family because I like women.

And I want to fit into some group.  Somewhere.  I just wish that there was somewhere I could go where I could be me and people would just accept it without making assumptions.
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Doc

Quote from: Tay on May 15, 2007, 05:23:27 PM
And I want to fit into some group.  Somewhere.  I just wish that there was somewhere I could go where I could be me and people would just accept it without making assumptions.

Groups are unlikely to do that. Individuals will. Be you, and find the acceptance of it one person at a time.
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Pica Pica

sorry about the family bit   :embarrassed:

join a theatre, that's what i do when i need a group to accept me, and not just as an actor, I was just as involved sorting props and painting the set as when I acted. Don't expect a deep relationship from most people, but you always find one or two.
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Dennis

I know how you feel Tay. I felt like that before transition. Didn't fit with lesbians, straight women, gay men, or straight men.

For me, transition changed it and I can relax in social settings. Of course, that isn't the solution for everyone. Artsy crowds seem more diverse, that's for sure.

Dennis
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Pica Pica

...it's more the common goal what does it.
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Tay

Quote from: Pica Pica on May 15, 2007, 05:41:03 PM
sorry about the family bit   :embarrassed:

join a theatre, that's what i do when i need a group to accept me, and not just as an actor, I was just as involved sorting props and painting the set as when I acted. Don't expect a deep relationship from most people, but you always find one or two.

I don't have time for theatre.  I work 40-44 hours a week and have other responsibilities.  I do miss theatre, though.
Quote from: Doc on May 15, 2007, 05:27:09 PM
Quote from: Tay on May 15, 2007, 05:23:27 PM
And I want to fit into some group.  Somewhere.  I just wish that there was somewhere I could go where I could be me and people would just accept it without making assumptions.

Groups are unlikely to do that. Individuals will. Be you, and find the acceptance of it one person at a time.

It takes forever.  And people that accept a "girl" who dresses as a "boy" but doesn't want to BE a boy are few and far between.

I came out to my friend recently.  Two days later he told me that if I were a movie stereotype I'd be "the bitchy, stuck up girl who likes to play pretend that she has more balls than the men."
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shawnael

Quote from: Tay on May 15, 2007, 06:11:29 PM
I came out to my friend recently.  Two days later he told me that if I were a movie stereotype I'd be "the bitchy, stuck up girl who likes to play pretend that she has more balls than the men."

That's ridiculous. So women can't stand equal to men and vice versa, is that it? That irritates me so much...

I'm sorry you feel out of place in your body. I'd say the best you can do is breast reduction, so at least you appear more androgynous. But I wouldn't mess with reproductive organs, sounds messy.
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Tay

Breast reduction isn't as important to me as a hysterectomy.  I have a decent binder I wear at home and on some weekends.  My uterus, however, cannot be stopped from bleeding (Canada doesn't allow menstrual suppression using birth control).  With my uterus intact, I run the risk of one day becoming pregnant, something that I would not be able to handle.
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Nik

Quote from: Tay on May 16, 2007, 07:03:42 AM
Breast reduction isn't as important to me as a hysterectomy.  I have a decent binder I wear at home and on some weekends.  My uterus, however, cannot be stopped from bleeding (Canada doesn't allow menstrual suppression using birth control).  With my uterus intact, I run the risk of one day becoming pregnant, something that I would not be able to handle.

I'm with you there, the idea of pregnancy creaps me out and periods suck no matter who you are. I say go for it.

I guess it's something I might consider too.
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Lucy

You Boyz, i hate every thing about my body and can only dream about gettin pregnant. I hope however you get what u need
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Nero

Quote from: Tay on May 15, 2007, 03:26:23 PM
I'm trying to figure out what right is.  I think it would be a lack of vaginal opening, but leave the external parts (clit etc) intact.  Even more minimal breasts than what I have now, but with a softness about my chest anyway.  My voice would be a low alto or high tenor (I'm a mezzosoprano).  I'd be slightly taller than what I am now, though only by two or three inches.  I desperately want my uterus gone.

Does any of that make sense?
I feel kind of the same way, physical-wise. The only thing I don't like about my body is having breasts and periods. You don't have to identify as male to take steps to get your body closer to what you'd like. You could have a masectomy or breast reduction, a hysterectomy, or even take testosterone to get your voice a bit deeper.
Good luck with whatever path you take. :)
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Tay

Quote from: Lucy on May 16, 2007, 10:13:54 AM
You Boyz, i hate every thing about my body and can only dream about gettin pregnant. I hope however you get what u need

I'm not a boy, unfortunately.  That would make things easier.  It's almost impossible to get a hysterectomy at my age (20) and most doctors won't do it until you are 25-35 (minimum age varies), have 3 kids or more, are married and have had either severe complications from pregnancy or have had a tubal ligation fail.  It would be easier to get a hysterectomy if I could go in and say "I am a boy.  Fix me."

I would happily give you my uterus, no questions asked and no strings attached if that were possible at this point.
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Doc

Quote from: Tay on May 15, 2007, 06:11:29 PM
It takes forever.  And people that accept a "girl" who dresses as a "boy" but doesn't want to BE a boy are few and far between.

Really? I find I have a fairly easy time finding people who recognize that I do not have the character attributes of woman-ness, but they don't see the man-ness. "You are not a woman, merely female," seems to be a statement it's not too hard to get friends to arrive at, and they'll even do it all by themselves. But the same person will also deny, almost hotly, that I am masculine. Of course, if I was physically male I would not mind at all being described as an unmasculine sort of man, as I am one. So I really ought not get wound up about that.

I'm sorry you're not recognized.

QuoteI came out to my friend recently.  Two days later he told me that if I were a movie stereotype I'd be "the bitchy, stuck up girl who likes to play pretend that she has more balls than the men."

What a misogynistic statement. Do you think he meant to be nasty? Or was he just tense and thus inarticulate and coming off the rude git?

Seems to me that a lot of people respond to female-to-anything transgendered people by mistaking them for a modern but well-accepted and even admired feminine archetype. I call women who fit it 'Title Nine Tomboys.' A Title Nine Tomboy is a competitive (generally athletic but sometimes intellectual) woman who wants to win, wants to beat the boys, wants to show she's as good as any man, and wants to be 'all woman' while she does it. Your friend's 'movie-stereotype' sounds like a really resentful and negative way of describing this particular flavour of womanhood.

I find most Title Nine Tomboys (excepting MtF ones) spectacularly annoying, 'cause they tend to say things to me like, "You are a woman, just as you define womanhood," or, while dressed in big-hip tiny-ankle jeans and a pink t-shirt with the slogan 'A Woman's Place is on a Horse' printed on it, tell me, "I never wear women's clothes either." Besides, competitive people bore me anyway, all that ego wrapped up in being better than other people.

Anyway, I get that too, if it's any comfort. Recently somebody gave me a videotape of a new kid's cartoon called Jane and the Dragon and told me how she thought I must have been just like Jane as a kid. With dread, I watch this thing and sure enough, Jane is a Title Nine Tomboy, every inch a girl, she's just a girl who wants to be a knight. Something I sympathize with, but don't identify myself as.

Quote from: Tay on May 16, 2007, 07:03:42 AM
Breast reduction isn't as important to me as a hysterectomy.  I have a decent binder I wear at home and on some weekends.  My uterus, however, cannot be stopped from bleeding (Canada doesn't allow menstrual suppression using birth control).  With my uterus intact, I run the risk of one day becoming pregnant, something that I would not be able to handle.

That's kinda silly, Canada -- as I understand it, the 'period' a woman on birth-control pills gets isn't a 'real' period, it's just 'withdrawl bleeding' from taking placebo-pills instead of hormonal birth-control pills on those days. All you've got to do is get on birth-control pills, say you lost a pack of pills and merrily go along taking an active pill every day. Women do it all the time, and this being the case it would clearly be wiser to do it under medical supervision. I guess there's some hot debate about its health risks or possible benefits. And there are certainly pills (or that injectable birth-control) that supposedly stop periods entirely for most females. Are they not available in Canada?

I remain puzzled about why it should be that getting spayed is so remarkably beneficial for the long-term health of female dogs, but is 'indicated' for human females only for life-threatening conditions.
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Wendy

Tay,

I have never been face-to-face with cross gendered people.  I know I can not share my feelings with "standard" gender folks.   I told my wife and she shoots barbs into me weekly.  I expect less acceptance from people that I know. 

Can I have your uterus without the cramps?  I am not sure about the natural birth thing though.  By the way birth control pills are extremely effective in preventing pregnancies if taken as prescribed.   

I am not keen on being "found-out".  I prefer to just "blend-in".  Since this seems impractical at several levels I no longer "fit-in". 

However the strength of a male has served me well since I tend to be very independent.  I have also done reasonably well in the business world as my genetic gender.

Is an adrogyne yet another variant of the gender continuum or rather a compromise from living many years in a gender different than that of your mind?  (Emerald might be able to answer that question.)

W
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