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For sure I live in a bubble. A middleclass, educated, atheist, artistic, progressive, LGBT-positive, queer-ish, youngish, urban bubble. I strongly recommend the experience.

I wish I could!  The youngish part, mostly.



Cindi

Quote from: UCBerkeleyPostop on August 31, 2012, 08:35:13 PM
I was referring to Tessa's post not yours which reminds me that I want to address this from Tessa:

Unlike my affiliation with AA and NA who helped me build the clean life that I now have, the real life "trans community" has done nothing for me. I have no obligation to the "trans community" whatsoever. When I was at your stage, I felt pretty much the same way you do now.  But I do not want to be another Teresa Sparks. As one travels through this journey and begins to realize that the whole world sees you as a woman, pure and simple, one begins to forget that she is even trans. Someone who has not reached that zenith cannot possibly know how she will feel once she gets there. Time changes everything. That said. I never expect to be in a serious relationship with a man. I am involved in a long term relationship with a woman and have not "disclosed." I think I might have a different view if I were a straight woman.

Yep...

People who are able to assimilate after transition, people who have their lives ahead of them, not behind them (wife, kids, indispensable career)...  People who are recognized as their true sex after transition, people who are ready to go out and make lives for themselves...  For people like that transition tends to become a bit like that first grade class you had in elementary school.  How many twenty year-olds spend all their time thinking about their first grade elementary school chums.  How many stay in touch or tweet one another?  When was the last first grade reunion you attended?

Transition is relevant for as long as it takes to do it, in most cases.

I know that for myself just having a vagina and wearing the clothes grew old and I needed more.  In the very beginning I was content with even less, just discussion of transition was exciting.  Now the prospect of sex with someone who thinks of me as a man who wants to be a woman?  I would rather cut on myself with a dull knife.

In a best-case scenario transition would be like learning to walk.  How many people who for whatever reason have to learn to walk again forever keep their wheel chair or crutches.  Some say, "I am so proud of transition, it will always be the most important thing to me ever."  "I am so proud of being trans, I'm always going to tell everyone I meet, forever."  My question would be, "Is that why you transitioned?"  Did you transition to forever live off the most amazing experience you have ever had?"  "If you did you are going to miss out on some much more amazing things than that."

Trust me, if you experienced any success with transition at all you will tire of "transition" pretty quickly.  If you are still in the process of transitioning, "Well yes, isn't it the most amazing thing?"

Quote from: Noey Noonesson on September 01, 2012, 07:07:15 AM

[clipped]

Trust me, if you experienced any success with transition at all you will tire of "transition" pretty quickly.  If you are still in the process of transitioning, "Well yes, isn't it the most amazing thing?"

THIS!
What can one add?
I just wouldn't know right now.

Axx

I should probably shorten my post to what you quoted Axelle.  For me less is usually more.  I have a lot of momentum and only a little bit to say.

Quote from: UCBerkeleyPostop on August 31, 2012, 08:35:13 PM
I was referring to Tessa's post not yours

Hmm, it seemed that your challenge was broader than than just one post.

Quote from: UCBerkeleyPostop on August 31, 2012, 08:35:13 PM
I have no obligation to the "trans community" whatsoever.

Then why come to a trans support site? Isn't this site and its members part of the "real life trans community?"

Quote from: Noey Noonesson on September 01, 2012, 07:07:15 AM
Trust me, if you experienced any success with transition at all you will tire of "transition" pretty quickly.  If you are still in the process of transitioning, "Well yes, isn't it the most amazing thing?"

Does being called "ma'am" by strangers count as success, even when one is pre-op?

I will always be the father of my kids and the first husband of my ex-wife. I am still in relationship with the three of them. In my past, I was a woman trying to be a man. It worked for a while. Now I am a woman who is currently male bodied. Barring unforeseen circumstances, the male-bodied part will change when I have SRS. But, my status as a father and ex-husband will not change, and I don't want that status to change. It's a part of my life, and to me it's nothing to be ashamed of.

I had identified as genderqueer for a time, and I still queer the concept of gender as is appropriate to my situation. I don't see why correcting my anatomy would change that aspect of me. In fact, Padma worded it quite well in another thread:

Quote from: Padma on September 01, 2012, 06:18:35 AM
Nice . I've just cottoned on to the fact that just because we transition doesn't mean we have to stop being genderqueer . It's good for world diversity...

I will disclose at the outset. If that makes me seem like less of a woman to others, then those are others who I probably don't want to be in relationship with anyway. I will not deny who I am or deny my relationships with my loved ones. This is what works for me, and that should be good enough.

Quote from: Connie Anne on September 01, 2012, 01:37:09 PM

Does being called "ma'am" by strangers count as success, even when one is pre-op?

I will always be the father of my kids and the first husband of my ex-wife. I am still in relationship with the three of them. In my past, I was a woman trying to be a man. It worked for a while. Now I am a woman who is currently male bodied. Barring unforeseen circumstances, the male-bodied part will change when I have SRS. But, my status as a father and ex-husband will not change, and I don't want that status to change. It's a part of my life, and to me it's nothing to be ashamed of.

I had identified as genderqueer for a time, and I still queer the concept of gender as is appropriate to my situation. I don't see why correcting my anatomy would change that aspect of me. In fact, Padma worded it quite well in another thread:

I will disclose at the outset. If that makes me seem like less of a woman to others, then those are others who I probably don't want to be in relationship with anyway. I will not deny who I am or deny my relationships with my loved ones. This is what works for me, and that should be good enough.

It's not a contest, if being ma'am-ed feels like success to you then feel free to experience it as such.  We all have a story and a situation.  It doesn't matter what it seems like to others, no one else has to live your life for you.  Some people are just happy to wear the clothes, some people are just happy to have the surgery, etc.  As long as you are happy you win.

On any trans forum, embracing trans-ness is always a derp win because on a trans forum being trans is something everyone can relate to.

I didn't say it was a contest, but you did use the term "success" with regards to transition. Maybe I misinterpreted your comment.

Quote from: Connie Anne on September 01, 2012, 07:01:39 PM
I didn't say it was a contest, but you did use the term "success" with regards to transition. Maybe I misinterpreted your comment.

For myself, my goal with regards to transition was to have a female life.  At the time I really didn't have a clue what a female life was.  Probably due to having a testosterone dominated endocrinology I figured, "Well... I have always been female (somehow) so therefore I already know everything there is to know about being a woman.  I have encountered a lot of M2Fs who have the same attitude as I did and they are typically in the beginning of transition like I was.

I remember coming out as trans and being "accepted".  Transition caused me to become much more social, I finally felt comfortable and I finally existed.  I figured I would always be trans and I would always have to tell partners and seek their acceptance.

After a while I was fortunate enough that people just assumed that I had always been female and I began to notice there was a HUGE chasm or divide between being "accepted" and between having people just assume I had always been female.  For one thing guys no longer thought of me as disgusting or sick or gross.  Sure there are all kinds of guys but on average when guys knew I transitioned they found me repulsive whereas on average guys who just thought I had always been female were willing to drink my bath water (etc.).  A massive difference!

While transition is not a contest there are different levels of success.  If you are perfectly happy with things the way they are then why change?  That would be silly?  People don't typically change their lives or do things without a reason.

Once I realized the difference between having to seek acceptance as a trans woman and having the freedom to just be a woman (on every level) there was no turning back for me.  But I never had any kids.  I was never married.  I never had a career and honestly before transition I had nothing except a desire to kill myself.  Transition gave me everything I have.  My life is ahead of me, I have nothing to look back on or cherish except for my history of having lived as a woman.  I don't appreciate when people try to take my life as a woman away from me and the truth is I would fight to the death to keep what I have.

There was a time when most women who transitioned were older but now more and more transitioning women are younger and younger.  They have their lives ahead of them and I don't see any reason for them to marry the past with the future and compromise.  However as I said people tend not to do anything without a reason and if a person is happy with things the way they are then why bother changing anything?  Also for various reasons some women who transition will choose to limit the degree to which they experience life as female.  Some can't pass as female.  Some have kids and a wife or a valuable career.

As long as you are happy it really doesn't matter to what degree you are able to experience life as a female.  I know there is a difference between being accepted as a trans woman and having a life where people just assume you have always been female.  Will everyone get there, does everyone want to get there?

Does it matter?

It only matters if it matters to you.  Being happy is it's own level of success.

Also nothing I say matters.  Even I know that.  As people we don't seek to learn something from someone else, we seek to have others tell us what we want to hear.  The things I say only matter to people who want to hear them and even then they don't really matter.

Quote from: Noey Noonesson on September 01, 2012, 07:58:09 PM
After a while I was fortunate enough that people just assumed that I had always been female and I began to notice there was a HUGE chasm or divide between being "accepted" and between having people just assume I had always been female.  For one thing guys no longer thought of me as disgusting or sick or gross.  Sure there are all kinds of guys but on average when guys knew I transitioned they found me repulsive whereas on average guys who just thought I had always been female were willing to drink my bath water (etc.).  A massive difference!

You do have a point there. I wish I could get to the point where I am just seen as a woman, not as a trans woman  . However, I'm non-op, so I'll settle with people close to me knowing my past and everyone else being in the dark. Personally, I don't think it's any stranger's//acquaintance's business what my gender history is.