So i figure i'll start this with my problem, then go into an explanation.  I've been on HRT for 5-6 months? and i'm starting to wonder if this is really the path for me. 

Now for an explanation which will consist of me throwing my jumbled thoughts on to the screen and hoping some of you out there can sort through them for me.  So i spent a bit of time in therapy, didn't really find it helpful stresses my options for a long time then decided to gamble it all and start HRT.  The first month or two was a back fourth battle in my head then a month or so of tranquility and some voice practice then these last 2 months i just kind of put it all out of my head.  I stayed on my meds, stopped voice practicing and dressing in female attire and finished up college and now im graduated and panicking.  I've had a lot of time to think over things this past month.  I've lost all of my friends but 1 whose busy alot, nothing i did there wasnt any kind of fight they just stopped talking to me. 

My job hunt hasn't been going well and i usually just spend all day sitting on ->-bleeped-<-/youtube/4chan/tumblr till late into the night when i cry myself to sleep because im lost.  I'm very depressed, but ive stopped cutting since one of my friends killed himself a couple months back and am trying to deal with it.  Its a confusing battle going on in my mind and i have no idea what to do.  I've approached transition pretty realistically, even though I'm in my early 20s I haven't really gotten many results, but it has changed my way of thinking quite a bit.  These last few months I just haven't cared about voice training, id just keep taking my pills and keeping it out of my head but its recently hit me that it would be pretty hard for me to pass as a girl, i have a fairly unfeminine face and very large shoulders that are frame based and not muscle so wont be getting any smaller.  Even with this though i feel ive still been shooting for transitioning one day, but like i said recently its like ive hit a crossroads once again.  Although I have some breast tissue ive been thinking of going back to being a guy, then the next day going for transition.

It's literally a change my mind every day several times a day kind of thing.  I've been talking to a lot of people but most can't understand so i'm unsure what to do.  Also lately my sexual orientation has been in a flux causing even more confusion.  Pretty much im unsure, before it was a very clear "yes be a girl" and if there was a magic button to change itd all id still prolly push it but its not that simple.  I've been horribly depressed and alone this past month or two with no communication with anyone but my bigoted parents and its starting to make me a bit nuts.  I'm just really starting to question if transition is for me, I dont want to stop then swing back and do it later so im trying to be honest about my feelings here, which is probably why they're coming out all over the place, but i'm unsure of what to do.  Please dont say therapy, free clinics or any of that nonsense im just asking what you the forumgoers think and hope you can provide some assistance.

 As I see it, you have three options.

The first being you could do voice practice, and put everything you have into trying to be successful as a woman. This option will require the most work, and luck, but it will ultimately pay off the most in happiness. If you can secure a job, some friends, and some hobbies, then you'll be in the place you want to be.

However, you could also temporarily live as a male for the sake of employment and social interaction. You may or may not be able to take hormones while doing this - it really depends on if your breast tissue is becoming obvious or not. Some people can go on hormones forever and still be able to pass as male. This route is also a good choice, because it will allow you to re-evaluate if living as a guy is feasible, and if you receive confirmation that you just can't swing the guy life, then when you're sufficiently prepared to live as a woman again, you will appreciate it all the more.

The third option would be to just stop transitioning, go into therapy, and live and function as a male as well as you can for the next while. This will really determine whether transition is right for you in your mind, and you will easily be able to secure a job (relatively speaking), however you may be sacrificing your personal happiness to pursue success in this manner.

If I were you, I'd pick option two. If you don't pass yet, and don't have the voice yet, then you should work on it until you can pass and speak properly - until then, living as male would be the most efficient, especially for your job search.

I know you don't want to "stop then swing back", but that's probably the best option - though, stopping hormones may not be necessary in your case, if you are describing your appearance precisely.

Just let things chill for a while. I know that's hard to do. Don't make any rash decisions. IF you decide to go back, give it some time. Say two or four weeks. This will keep you from making a decision you'll regret. This happened to me. It was difficult. It gave everyone the ammunition they needed to say: see? you don't know what you want.

Sit down, list your priorities, and pick a few to work on that don't include any permanent changes. How can that hurt?

My best to you,

Cindi

Quote from: Kelly J. P. on September 06, 2012, 12:34:57 AM
As I see it, you have three options.

The first being you could do voice practice, and put everything you have into trying to be successful as a woman. This option will require the most work, and luck, but it will ultimately pay off the most in happiness. If you can secure a job, some friends, and some hobbies, then you'll be in the place you want to be.

However, you could also temporarily live as a male for the sake of employment and social interaction. You may or may not be able to take hormones while doing this - it really depends on if your breast tissue is becoming obvious or not. Some people can go on hormones forever and still be able to pass as male. This route is also a good choice, because it will allow you to re-evaluate if living as a guy is feasible, and if you receive confirmation that you just can't swing the guy life, then when you're sufficiently prepared to live as a woman again, you will appreciate it all the more.

The third option would be to just stop transitioning, go into therapy, and live and function as a male as well as you can for the next while. This will really determine whether transition is right for you in your mind, and you will easily be able to secure a job (relatively speaking), however you may be sacrificing your personal happiness to pursue success in this manner.

If I were you, I'd pick option two. If you don't pass yet, and don't have the voice yet, then you should work on it until you can pass and speak properly - until then, living as male would be the most efficient, especially for your job search.

I know you don't want to "stop then swing back", but that's probably the best option - though, stopping hormones may not be necessary in your case, if you are describing your appearance precisely.

As someone who is diong a variation of #2, do #2. It's sort of 50/50 and people use "she" at first, but then correct themselves when I tell them my name and apologize.

Just something to consider, hon... something you've identified is that you're depressed. You mention it several times in your post. As someone who's suffered with this particular demon on and off throughout my life, I know it affects a lot of mental processes that you may not be aware of. It clouds your thinking. It makes you feel negative towards yourself and amplifies all the worst ways you see yourself. And it makes you apathetic, and feel like nothing's worth it.

I can't help but wonder if this is what's making you so unsure about what you should do, since at no point in your post do you actually say that you don't feel it's who you are as a person which makes you feel this way. But rather why it wouldn't be as effective as you'd like it to be. And that may be down to a pessimistic view of how you see yourself brought on by the way you feel in general, rather than with regard to gender.

Maybe a first step would be to look at the possibility of getting this depression under control, to work on removing that as something which could be influencing the way you're thinking or feeling. If this is something you feel able to do, it may allow you to actually gain some clarity of thought and that in itself may help you decide on the best course of action for you. I know you said not to suggest therapy or things like that, but there is a lot of help out there for dealing with depression, and the causes of such, whether it's gender related or not.

Korra, that's quite a stream of consciousness you've posted there.

I think that you've had some very good replies to date.  I would agree with Sephirah that if you're depressed, you're probably feeling as though you're in a dark place.  Much as you said you didn't want us to mention clinics et al, I would think that doing something about your depression would be a good start.  It's hard to make significant life decisions when your thought processes may not be in the right place to begin with.

I would agree with Kelly - if you don't feel comfortable with full transition, then don't.  Stay on HRT if that's making you feel better mentally, and see where that takes you before making any further decisions.

You have been on HRT for a while, to be honest I would find a gender center and speak with a good therapist.

Not so that they can tell you what you are but so that you can work out your feelings over a span of time.  I would go the opposite route, unless you have extreme anxiety it seems hormones are not making you any happier.  I would go cold turkey for a while(even if the beginning will be tough as your body shifts around).

Reason being, you have already been on hormones for a while and lets assume you choose not to you definitely don't want to do any permanent damage to your reproductive system.

While your doing this talk with a therapist and work out your feelings.  Your not giving up on being a girl, your giving your mind a chance to understand yourself on a deeper level.  Even for true girls, transition is not for everyone.  And for some people its not about confusion but only you know deep inside whether you are female or not.  It just might take some time to find it. 

Before starting HRT I had years of more actively finding my true identity.  For myself, without any outside influence.  Even financing everything I have done thus far has been my own endeavor. 

Another option, find a trans group.  I personally don't like them because I find the members of trans groups to be more... critical about certain things than actual guys and ladies.  I have heard people say some nasty things as well for those who are older/don't pass as well which while I was not the target I definitely do not appreciate.  Since afterall we are all fighting the same war, even if your battles are different.

Quote from: Korra on September 06, 2012, 12:19:13 AM
So i figure i'll start this with my problem, then go into an explanation.  I've been on HRT for 5-6 months? and i'm starting to wonder if this is really the path for me. 

It sounds like you are at a crossroads in your life and transition isn't the main item.

Being out of college and looking for work seems to be the more immediate issue right now.

Why did you decide to transition?  How has your life been up until you started hormones?  Were you happy being male?  Does the prospect of going through life as a male seem enjoyable to you?  I think you mentioned cutting.  Cutting is a way to express deep emotional pain and hurt.  When you don't feel like there is anyone you can talk to and there seems to be no possible way to deal with the hurt, cutting feels like a way to let it out but cutting is a very primitive method of dealing with things and it only works for a little while.

But if you can't let out this deep emotional pain then how can you deal with any of the other stuff you are presently facing?

Sometimes you gotta fake it till you make it.  I am looking at finding work also, trying to decide what kind of work I want to get into.  Do I go with the soul-sucking adult entertainment route like I have in the past or get my sh7t together and find a normal job?  I have been having a difficult time getting myself into a normal schedule but I know I have to get myself in a schedule and stop wasting time with idiotic stuff like staying up late on the Internet instead of getting the rest I need to begin to look at being productive.

I would suggest getting to bed at a normal time, get up at a normal time.  Eat right, get some exercise and allow your brain some rest by not overstimulating with music, etc. (if you are).  Your brain needs a little silence in order to be able to come up with ideas.  If it feels like you have a lot of circulating ideas, worries and internal conflict then the best thing to do would be to add some quiet meditation to your rest, nutrition and exercise.

Fake it till you make it and do what healthy, well-adjusted people do.  Do what smart people do.  Look around you at what successful people are doing and imitate them and then incorporate those behaviors into your evolving life.  Well-adjusted people don't cut themselves, they find more productive ways to deal with things.

You should be talking to someone who can help you center yourself.  Even if you don't want any therapy.  You need to silence the noise and let your mind figure things out.

Here is a link that might help.
http://www.mro.org/zmm/teachings/meditation.php

And try to avoid sugar and caffeine, etc. especially at night.  The goal being being able to face your situation with as clear a mind as possible.

From reading your post, it sounds like there are other issues besides the obvious gender one.  My first suggestion is get off the computer and find a way to interact with other people. Even if it's just going to the mall or a public park etc. Sitting inside at the the computer all day will create depression. Make new friends, join a civic group like the sierra club or kiwanis etc. Rarely do people remain close friends with their classmates after school is over even if this gender thing wasn't happening. When you make big changes in your life, most times you end up having to find new people to hang out with no matter what is is.

I personally feel people put too much faith that HRT will solve their GID issues. It doesn't. You need to figure out who you are on your own first. And again sitting at the computer all day on 4chan etc isn't going to help you do that. I find for me some of my clearest self reflection comes when I am out in nature, walking in the woods etc. You might give that a try? I too do not respond to professional therapy. Some people do, some don't so I don't believe that is always the answer for everyone.

And clearly this next part is my own personal opinion, I don't think anyone should start HRT unless they have a clear goal in mind. Be it "I'm gonna live as a guy but want to feminize my body" to a transition date and they are SURE they want/need to change their gender. You shouldn't be on HRT and have no idea where you are going.  I lived full time for almost 3 years before I started HRT. I wanted to make sure the reality of daily life as a woman was what I envisioned it to be before I started doing irreversible changes to my body.

Hope something in my posts helps or at least motivates you to get out into the world, as a guy or a girl and interact with other people. We are social creatures and will wither in solitude.

Quote from: Noey Noonesson on September 10, 2012, 12:18:08 PM

  Your brain needs a little silence in order to be able to come up with ideas.

^^ This.

I think our world has so much outside stimulation, it's impossible to really think clearly. I think this is why walking alone in the woods helps me so much, there is very little outside stimulation and it brings me down to earth. Another thing that might help is to read a book instead of being online at night. Find a light subject you enjoy, I like fantasy books.

Every so often it feels like my life locks up, or is about to lock up. I feel buried in a heap of problems, things seem out of control and I don't know what to do to get unstuck from in the rut I'm in. Often it is all down to procrastination on my part and what usually works is to take a piece of paper and write down some of the problems I'm facing then pick one and solve it. It doesn't have to be anything big, anything will do, and then I tackle the next one and the next one. By the time I have the 4-5 bullet points crossed of my list I'm starting to feel a lot better and all the other problems I have now seem manageable . Just by getting some small things out of the way I can get a sense of the situation improving and moving forward.

I don't know if this will help your situation or not but you could give it a try. When things pile up, even small things, it can make the big picture look all the more daunting than it really is.

I am pretty good at beating myself up, especially over a lot of the things I am doing possible transition related. There are those days/weeks/months even when I get stuck at the intersection of Futility and Fatalism. After all, life sucks and then you die, right? Guilt has been great for doing that to me. Yet I still continued on HRT for whatever reasons. The inevetability perhaps of having a D-cup? No more decisions to make. Which, now that I think about it, making big decisions about my life is always a great depressor for me.

Being depressed over something, anything, just snowballs over the rest of your life. All you see and feel is darkness and gloom. Some perfectly justified. A lot more not so much so. Yet they are colleteral damage.

In my much younger days I also thought no way can I ever pass as a female. Twice in my 20's I started HRT, living part-time, and experimented. Twice I stopped. It was ridiculous. I was 6ft tall, big boned, deep voiced, big frog hands, supe extra large feet and rapaidly balding. These days I easily pass and I doubt it's because gravity is winning and I lost an inch of height. The only thing that changed was attitude.

I sort of am following your Plan #2, except I call it living part time as a female. I need to work as a male. As others have said, you do need to get a handle on the depression and a great start is just to get out of the house and be around people and out in the sunshine. Even if it is just to take a walk around town or in a park.

My other concern is over your response to HRT. It did help to lift the fog for a little while but took some time. Then I suspect something came along to derail that and put you into the major funk you are in. Or too much doubt that perhaps you are just trying to run away? As much as you hate to hear it, this is why a gender therapist, or at the very least a TG group, is very much needed.

Depression is a truly horrible issue to cope with. I've always felt its like you have a pot of tar in your brain, and all your thoughts get dipped in black gunk before you get to look at them. It's really really difficult to make good choices when you're down so, my suggestion would be, don't make any choices right now. Instead you need to do two things.
1, start jogging, not much, just like 2 or 3 k's every second day
2, volunteer. It doesn't matter what you do, helping at an animal shelter, taking lunch and playing chess with elderly peeps, any type of volunteering.
Here's why I say this. Jogging is good, endorphins, natural light, fresh air, it's free and shown to help raise your mood. The volunteering is also good because it forces you to place your focus on something other than yourself, when you're rattling around in your own head it's really easy to get stuck in negative feedback loops. You need to do things that make you feel positive about yourself to help lessen the negative feedback loops. The other reason volunteering is good is, it helps expand your social network, you'll meet all goes of people, the easiest way to find work is to maintain a good social network.
With regard to your trans issues... My advise is stay on hrt but just forget about all the other transition things for the moment (easier said than done I know) Focus on getting yourself into a good clear headspace, then when you're feeling good about things, tackle the gender issue. The reason I say stay on hrt is, you'll get through this tough patch and come out the otherside stronger, if you stop hrt now, you'll come out the other side wishing you haddnt

Hey guys, sorry for the late reply I kind of distanced myself from the trans community for about a month to try and clear my head.  I've been off hormones for about two weeks now as part of my brilliant plan to figure things out.  I started hanging out with people frequently, exercising several times a week, and generally trying to improve of my state of mind.  That said, I'm not sure if I'm any happier XD.  I tried taking most of you guys advice, but i seem to have to hit a dead end.  First off, I was planning to stop and see if I could live on as a normal male but a problem ive thought of that has recently upset me is how my impatience has caused me something important.  I'm past the point of return, so I'm sterile which I didn't give much thought when I started but now its really tearing me apart since I really did want kids but I guess its too late on that front.  At the same time a lack of estrogen seems to be reversing most of my changes pretty quickly, except I still don't have a functioning penis which means I can't go back to a normal sex life either.  Even if I could live as a guy I think I've kind of ruined that for myself already I guess?

My depression has improved a little bit, but I'm still pretty down in the dumps most days.  I did have an amazing birthday for the first time in like 10 years so that was awesome.  My gender issues still seem to be a deep problem for me, even if i wasn't sterile and everything was back to normal, in the back of my mind its still bothering me.  I still browse trans things on my tumblr, here, ->-bleeped-<-, etc..   So do I start back hormones?  I mean, one of the main factors for me wanting to stop was having kids, and maybe having a healthy sex life but with my penis being sterile and unable to gain erections I guess i'm just gonna have to embrace the single life but should I start again is my current question on my mind..  Also this is probably super jumbled, I've been drinking so sorry for the confusion.

Quote from: Korra on October 14, 2012, 09:30:53 PM
Hey guys, sorry for the late reply I kind of distanced myself from the trans community for about a month to try and clear my head.  I've been off hormones for about two weeks now as part of my brilliant plan to figure things out.  I started hanging out with people frequently, exercising several times a week, and generally trying to improve of my state of mind.  That said, I'm not sure if I'm any happier XD.  I tried taking most of you guys advice, but i seem to have to hit a dead end.  First off, I was planning to stop and see if I could live on as a normal male but a problem ive thought of that has recently upset me is how my impatience has caused me something important.  I'm past the point of return, so I'm sterile which I didn't give much thought when I started but now its really tearing me apart since I really did want kids but I guess its too late on that front.  At the same time a lack of estrogen seems to be reversing most of my changes pretty quickly, except I still don't have a functioning penis which means I can't go back to a normal sex life either.  Even if I could live as a guy I think I've kind of ruined that for myself already I guess?

My depression has improved a little bit, but I'm still pretty down in the dumps most days.  I did have an amazing birthday for the first time in like 10 years so that was awesome.  My gender issues still seem to be a deep problem for me, even if i wasn't sterile and everything was back to normal, in the back of my mind its still bothering me.  I still browse trans things on my tumblr, here, ->-bleeped-<-, etc..   So do I start back hormones?  I mean, one of the main factors for me wanting to stop was having kids, and maybe having a healthy sex life but with my penis being sterile and unable to gain erections I guess i'm just gonna have to embrace the single life but should I start again is my current question on my mind..  Also this is probably super jumbled, I've been drinking so sorry for the confusion.

From my point of view, and this is simply my point of view so take it however you please, you seem to be avoiding the inevitable and unwilling to accept yourself so you come up with excuses or distractions to prevent facing your true self. You can fight it all you want but it will eventually win. Just my 2 cents from experience.

Edit: Remember that HRT is a tool to aid in helping solve the problem, but its not the solution.

QuoteRemember that HRT is a tool to aid in helping solve the problem, but its not the solution.

quoted for truth.