No matter what I do , no matter how much I want this and no matter how much I think living as woman will make my life happier and more wholesome, I still cant shake the feeling of dread that I will loose my salvation, I spent this last 6 months reading everything I could to show me its ok to be a Christian and Transgender. Eveyerthing was copesetic and I was swell as a bucket of blueberries until the fateful day of doom when my mom started reminding me I would loose my place in heaven in God's presence.

Even though I have met lesbians and gays and a few transgender people that seem to have the Holy Spirit in them and I can sense no evil within them, its not enough. Eternity is still an awful long time to endure in hell. I fell pulled in 2 directions, part of me says ok lets just accept being intersexed and transgender and go for it, and the other part is saying don't take the risk.

I even have been going to a support group and talking with another pastor there at a different church that I go to which is also open and affirming. Is this some big cosmic joke then? God gives me these feelings of being in the wrong gender or gives someone else feelings of being attracted to the same sex, and then we cannot act upon those feelings?

Is this just demons or sin or some other crap that is appearing like light and yet will send me to my doom?
Is it some giant media/antichrist agenda to get me to give up God and Jesus?

These are the questions I was asking 6 months ago and I still ask them even though I have made steps forward in seeing a GID Therapist for 2 months now and finally getting an appointment started to take hormones in november probably.

I tell you I am still scared and I want to run back to Texas and forget I was even here in San Francisco.
I need some support from you that have felt this way, please tell me how you got past this.

I just need support in general cause I am going bonkers

this isnt going to help but i feel the problem here is religion. being trans isnt evil, the stuff youve been brainwashed with is , tho.

I think this thread might do better in the religious section.

Religion is imperfect yes I know that, but God does exist, I can feel him literally looking at me and hearing me right now. I always have referred to God as a he but I know he is also a she but in reality far above anything of our genders.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on September 17, 2012, 01:13:19 PM
No matter what I do , no matter how much I want this and no matter how much I think living as woman will make my life happier and more wholesome, I still cant shake the feeling of dread that I will loose my salvation, I spent this last 6 months reading everything I could to show me its ok to be a Christian and Transgender. Eveyerthing was copesetic and I was swell as a bucket of blueberries until the fateful day of doom when my mom started reminding me I would loose my place in heaven in God's presence.

It is when I read posts like this that I could happily press a button that would obliterate religion from human life.

OK Shawn. I am NOT a believer. I believe that when you are dead you are dead forever. Gone. Nothing. Oblivion. There is no hell but there is no heaven either. So now you know where I am coming from and you have a context to place my remarks in.

You are here now Shawn, you are living a life that you do not seem to like or enjoy. You are staying away from what you are told is the one treatment that will help you because of the possibility of an afterlife. So on one hand you have something concrete and on the other hand you have a maybe, a perhaps.

So here are your choices:

• Shawn stays Shawn - there is a God.  You have a miserable life and when you die you still might not make it into heaven because you might do something else that sends you to hell.


• Shawn Transitions - there is a God - Your life improves. You are happier (or maybe less miserable) and when you die you still might not make it into heaven because you might do something else that sends you to hell.


• Shawn stays Shawn - there is NO God - You have a miserable life and when you die you are gone forever. The suffering in your life was pointless.


• Shawn transitions - there is NO God - Your life improves. You are happier (or maybe less miserable) and when you die you are gone forever. At least you enjoyed your life.

So it seems to me that your chances of salvation are just as good if you transition. Besides which, the bible is not the word of God, it is the word of men who say that they have a direct line to heaven.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on September 17, 2012, 01:31:59 PM
Religion is imperfect yes I know that, but God does exist, I can feel him literally looking at me and hearing me right now. I always have referred to God as a he but I know he is also a she but in reality far above anything of our genders.

Ok....

So this inifinite being who knows everything, who can comprehend the largest distances and peer into the smallest atom, who constructed an entire universe and populated with life and engendered that life with eternal souls - this font of all knowledge, wisdom and understanding is going to make you burn in hell forever for changing your endocrine balance?

I do not think so Shawn. A God that petty could not create the inifinite.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on September 17, 2012, 01:31:59 PM
Religion is imperfect yes I know that, but God does exist, I can feel him literally looking at me and hearing me right now. I always have referred to God as a he but I know he is also a she but in reality far above anything of our genders.

you can convince yourself to believe anything if you want to hard enough, so why not do you?

Shawn, I don't think your fear is religious. I think your fear is far more primal than that, and one we all suffer from at various times. Namely a fear of the unknown.

If you knew within your own mind, one way or the other, how this would turn out... and what would happen to you when the final curtain falls, then I suspect it would make your decisions easier to make. It's the not knowing that's making you feel this way, in my opinion. You've heard various opinions from people all over this particular spectrum. What you should do, what you shouldn't do, what is and isn't the right thing, and in the end you feel like you still don't have the final assurances one way or the other. The religious context here, well, you believe what you believe and that gives your life meaning. But listening to what other people think and feel about it, you're getting snapshots of what they believe.

The thing is, hon, the only time you learn the rules of life is when the game is over. Until then, you have to make them up as you go and hope they're the right ones for you. This is something that you have to get in touch with yourself about and think about how you feel, how you want your relationship with your God to be. I'm not religious but I'm pretty sure that if your God loves you, then that deity will love you no matter how you present to the physical world. You are who you are inside, and whether you go through with it or not, you'll still be who you are on the inside. And that, if you ascribe to an afterlife, will be what ventures there. Not your physical shell.

So really, since the person you are, the spark of sentience within you, is already in contact with your God, and has already formed that relationship, a very personal relationship... the question perhaps is more about how you feel about making your external self come into alignment with the way you feel inside. What people tell you will happen to you at the end, whichever path you choose... these views don't come from the relationship you have formed with your God. That can only come, I think, from inside you, hon. Perhaps now is the time to have faith in yourself, and how you see yourself to have lived and want to live according to how you believe your relationship with your creator should be.

Fear of the unknown is powerful. It evokes a powerful, deep seated urge within each of us to protect ourselves, to stay where we know it's safe. All I will say is that you have the power of self-determination for a reason. And the ability to shape your life based on your own thoughts and feelings for a reason. Whether that reason is to live true to yourself and allow you to continue to explore your relationship with your God free from discomfort and distraction... that's not for me to say. What I will say, is that you have no less a capacity to shine, and make your mark... to help people, and live what you consider to be a good life if you decide to transition. You don't become a different person, you become yourself. And I think, perhaps, that your God already knows who that is.

Shawn, the thing I've come to realize is that people of this world have no right to speak as if they are God or profit, deeming that they know your eternal destiny. To those who judge, take look in the mirror. Some of the most pivotal figures in the Bible were murderers and liars.  You're actions don't necessarily reflect the honesty of your heart. Just the fact that you thinking so heavily about whether or not your feelings are in accordance with God shows that you wish to be a good person in accordance with God.  Remember, Jesus preferred the company of the sick, outcast, etc.  those that would judge you for ANYTHING are totally missing the whole point of Christianity.

I stated over in a thread I started over in the Christianity thread that I appreciate the views of those who do not believe in God the same way that I do.  I have learned much about myself and my own feelings after having read everyone's life experiences and the sharing of their feelings.  Having said that, I'd like to offer some encouragement in two ways.

First, I was given some good answers over in the Spirituality > Christian sub-forum.  Look for the topic entitled, "Self-searching or God-searching" if you haven't already done so.

Second, I have asked some of those same questions myself, coming from a fundamental Baptist background.  I'm still dealing with how to reconcile my faith, which I don't want to give up, with my incredible desire to be the woman on the outside that I truly believe I am on the inside.

To that end, let me give you this encouragement from Scripture:
"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one."
(John 10:27-30)

This passage tells us we cannot lose the salvation we have been given; we're in the Father's hand - we're in the Son's hand, and we cannot be plucked out or get out ourselves. 

"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:13)

If we've placed our faith and trust in Jesus Christ alone, not in a religion or a ritual, but in a personal submission to and acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ as the only acceptable payment for our sins, you ARE saved!  You've believed on the name of the Son of God - you can have CONFIDENCE that you have eternal life!  Just as works cannot save you, you cannot lose your salvation by works - which includes what some misinformed Christians call a mutilation of the body, but which is honestly only the fixing of a birth "defect" where our minds and bodies are not working together as they should be.

Now, having said this, you don't have to agree with me.  Several wonderful folks have tried to encourage you the way that they found encouragement: some by the rejection of religion outright.  Susan's is a wonderful place for the sharing of ideas, and each of these soul-searchers are simply trying to help you. 

I don't know your church background, but I hope these verses have helped! 

-Hope

Oh, this is thorny stuff. I'd think twice about getting involved, but I'm a sucker for punishment I guess.

I'm not a believer nor a Christian, but I think there are valid and sincere reasons for faith in a God/god/gods.

The concept of an objective place called hell, designed to eternally torment the sinful, on the other hand... don't worry yourself about it. It has no good philosophical, theological, rational, or scriptural basis. No Creator nor universe will mete out punishment for ->-bleeped-<-. "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD." Isaiah 55:8-9.

As someone who used to be religious - I just don't care anymore about what OTHER PEOPLE have to say about what God wants.

I do believe that God works through us  - so we need to take care of our loved ones, stand up for our beliefs and things like that.

However, if as per one of the cornerstones of Christianity is that God is loving and caring and forgiving.

He would accept me as this is how he has created me - as a woman.

we will never know until we are dead if what we did in life was right or wrong - but by then it would no longer matter.

sometimes though people mistake heaven to be some far off planet... - sometimes heaven is just sitting down with people you love and care about and make you happy and have a cup of tea with them and make them happy or just spending time with them.

as for Christianity and LGBT not getting along - that's largely to do with some BS from people who just don't wanna get along so instead cling to stupid reasons that just don't make any sense. for example if you're a devout Christian where in the Bible does it say you need to make someone who is LGBT feel miserable and excluded from society just because of who they are?
similarly just because a person has Christian beliefs doesn't mean they are anti-LGBT - I know a few Christians who do support me and help stay sane.

edit: this usually applies to other religions as well

Quote from: Alexia6 on September 17, 2012, 02:55:11 PM
sometimes though people mistake heaven to be some far off planet... - sometimes heaven is just sitting down with people you love and care about and make you happy and have a cup of tea with them and make them happy or just spending time with them.

As an atheist I believe exactly what you have just written. We make our own heaven or hell right here on Earth. I cannot blame anyone else - God or Devil - for the decisions I make. They are mine and mine alone and I must take full responsiibilty for every one of them.

We all get one brief flicker in the eternal darkness and that is all we get for eternity so we need to live our lives to the full, doing as little harm as possible to others because this is their only chance too.

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:28

Paul said it all....  Jesus doesn't care whether you are female or male. 

You are a Christian right. So you should understand Christianity is about forgiveness, even if (which it aint) what you do is a sin you will be forgiven. Do not be fooled by all the bigots and hateful people who claim to be Christian. The people preaching hate and intolerance are the real sinners in life.

A lot of good opinions expressed here.  It doesnt matter though, do what you FEEL to be right for you as long as it doesnt cause someone else to stumble directly.  As a counter (just trying to enter your frame of mind to see where this is coming from), the argument could be made that this decision "hurts" your family.  Does this scare you?  Lets forget the whole religion spin and approach with the simplest and easily addressable concerns FIRST, not delve totally into religion.  Lets list the pros and cons and not worry about weighing them just yet.

Quote from: Randi on September 17, 2012, 04:22:58 PM
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:28

Paul said it all....  Jesus doesn't care whether you are female or male.

That is a beautiful statement, whether you believe our not I wish more people were as  accepting as the religion they believe in.

People tend to cling to the hate, fear, and evils of religion rather than its peaceful forgiving nature. 

I can't talk from a god loving point of view because to be honest, I am simply a spiritual being but not a religious being.

There is the answer to religious struggles right there! We are all spiritual creatures, not religious.  Mind, body, spirit: not mind, body, religion.  Dont let religion counter what you feel in your spirit to be true.  Also, dont let your mind overwhelm your spirit either.  Bring them in synch.  It could very well be that your spirit doesnt want to go through with all this, I do not know, but it doesnt even sound like you are listening to it. Just dont focus on the battle between what you think and what you where taught.  It is entirely possible that neither viewpoint you are harboring is correct.  It helps me to pray, even shout to God.  After releasing this tension, I feel my something else... I found in the past that I thought I wanted something, then after really getting worked up realized it wasnt really what my soul wanted (then I would just cry until I couldnt anymore).  There have also been times when I did this and felt at peace.  Im not going to really try and overanalyze, but you should really just talk to God, even if it doesnt feel like you are being heard (at the very least your spirit will hear and either align, or disalign from your mind).  Lol, the above might all sound like gibberish to both religious people and atheists, but there are entire sections of the brain that responds when people approach their own chosen higher power in conversation.  That is a scientifically verified fact.

Interestingly, when certain sections of the brain are externally activated with a magnetic field, subjects will often express a very strong feeling that they are in the presence of spiritual beings (some described as angels).  I know this doesnt prove or disprove the existence of God, just that our brains are wired to feel spiritual.  It isnt just one isolated area either, there are multiple zones and they are often different for each person.

well the problem also for me is, I have not always felt bad about having a male body, and yet often more than not i do feel bad about having a male body.

Here are the things that I know are true about me and will never change regardless:

I hate facial hair
I hate body hair
I wish i looked even softer and smoother
I like womens clothes
I like painting my nails and my face
I am very emotional and moody
I like sensitive and soft and things of a feminine nature

My only male side would be:
My voice which I considered voice surgery but would loose my ability to go from low to high in voice impressions.
The fact that I still dream as male and did grow up mostly like a boy and for the longest time did accept myself as male, even though the female side was getting stronger as i got older.

My mom just sent me some money and wants me to go back to Texas, forget about all LGBT people and pretend I am a conservative again and go back in the closet essentially and reject what i learned. She wants to send me to a pastor who she things will straighten me out.
A male pastor of course, she feels I need a male role model to fix me. 

I sometimes still feel male but it wavers all day long back and forth this power struggle for my identity. I dream of what I could become but I also fear what I may loose.

My mom even wants me to take testosterone and try to man up as it were and then i would feel better she says