Will "Occupy Wall Street" Stick?

[Julie Marie]

I'm loving what I'm seeing with the Occupy Wall Street movement.  The NY protesters aren't letting up and it's growing into other states.  But I was watching the news and some suit was being interviewed and he said it won't last.  I'm not seeing that.  What do you think?  Will this thing keep growing?  With all the people out of work and with nothing else to do, I say "YES"

[tekla]

Because my Facebook feed is full of geeks and creative types (I'm neither, I'm just friends with them what's are) there were tons of postings about Steve Jobs, all of course thanking him for truly changing the world.  But I (because it's who I am) had to ask them - is that a wonderful change that eliminated most of the entry level positions for college graduates?  So that you really can't find a job anymore because of that Catch-22 (entry level jobs provided experience that you needed to get the next job up, without that experience you are now pretty much shut out of that career arc).  That change that basically eliminated the record companies and their development money in favor of a DIY at-home deal, or hurt the publishing industry so much that contracts are getting very rare, how's that working out for you?

I mean if he made the world such a better place, how come most people think we are on a downward slide, how come dissatisfaction is so high, how come so many people think we are on the wrong track and think things are not getting better?

So, occupy Wall Street will/would be powerful if enough people stop amusing themselves to death, and do something outside their house for a change.  There is widespread dissatisfaction, and if all those various groups find a place to meet you might have a perfect storm, but it's got to spread far beyond what it is now, and some sort of solution has to be proposed too.

[Julie Marie]

The people that are most affected are also the people who would be most likely to get out and protest, the younger generation, and that's who you see mostly in the protests.  It was the same back in the 60's.

My kids, 28 & 25, have college degrees, the older one an MBA, who has yet to land a real job.  I've been telling her that her generation needs to get out into the streets and start protesting because complaining to me wasn't going to work.  Like many of her generation, she's got a big school loan that is strapping her down.  She could never afford to buy her own home while paying off her loan.  And this is adding to the present financial crisis.

The transference of wealth that was supposed to create jobs ended up being simply a transference of wealth with the wealthy keeping all the money.  In healthy economies, people spend money and the economy flourishes.  Problem is the "1%" has all they need and they aren't spending their money, just making their bank accounts grow.  And they aren't creating jobs either. 

Like it or not, increasing the tax on the wealthy is a quick and easy way to begin the healing.  Then take that money to rebuild the infrastructure.  And the jobs created by doing that will cause more spending because the "99%" need things.  That will snowball into more jobs and so on.  But we have to get a portion of the money out of the hands of the "1%" first. 

Of course, we need to clean house too and get rid of the politicians who have been supporting this transference of wealth.  They need to experience the fruits of their labor.  They could end up on the streets protesting.  Wouldn't that be a treat? 

[tekla]

I see lots of middle age people out there too.  Transferring wealth has never created jobs, investing wealth does.

[gennee]

Occupy Wall Street is in its 21st day and building. I'm going down there next week. I want to encourage them and give my support. I also will share that they don't let anyone hijack their movement-it's their movement. That's what happened to the Tea Party movement.

I just came back from a protest regarding hydrofracking which is another big issue.

[mimpi]

It will stick if we have the conviction to carry it through and put ourselves on the line come what may. They count on fear and intimidation, without fear we are unstoppable.

[jmaxley]

I fully support it.  It's one of the best things I've seen in ages.

[Cindy]

Sorry for my Australian naivety.

What is the movement about? I get get sensible answers from the newspapers. Can anyone

I was also bemused about the arguments against increasing tax on the wealthy. Why not?  I would have thought that was obvious and popular.

I would also suggest death taxes should be brought in. They have been in other democratic countries before including UK and most of Europe. I think the USA has to bite the bullet,  Why should horrendously wealthy people die and give their money to people who have not worked for it?

I will no doubt be popular with some and not with others

Cindy

[VeryGnawty]

Sorry for my Australian naivety.

What is the movement about?

Since this is way too complicated for my lazy tush to explain, I'll just have you watch this:

Code Select Expand

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTx6t3FUSkM&feature=feedu

[Cindy]

Since this is way too complicated for my lazy tush to explain, I'll just have you watch this:

Code Select Expand

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTx6t3FUSkM&feature=feedu

Sorry Hon,

Wouldn't connect

[Joelene9]

Cindy,
  This is about the large amount of people in the US that are unemployed or underpaid.  They are sick of the Wall Street shenanigans that was presented with the failing economy.  These people called themselves the "99 percenters".  The Website is here:
http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/ 🔗
  Joelene.

[Cindy]

Thanks Joelene,

I think I'm getting that message that the economy is screwed and to put it politely you are being royally screwed by the rich.  Oh BTW I am not a radical anything I'm a very middle of the road girl in politics.

Why?

I know that is the most stupid question but why?

You guys, none of this is meant rudely, stand up as the model of democracy and the land of freedom and opportunity. Regan sort of claimed 'he' destroyed the USSR threat by economics. Has China now performed the same thing to the USA?

You have no health system, you have no wealth fare system, people can obtain obscene wealth and watch people die in the street.

What is going on and why don't you vote the buggers out?

Sorry I'm in no way anti-USA, just really worried for all my friends in the USA

Cindy

[Joelene9]

  We have a welfare system that's badly flawed.  We got people that are working here illegally, getting paid lower untaxed wages under the table in cash, applying and getting welfare benefits I see about every time I go to the grocer.  These people come in from mainly from Mexico and San Salvador.  They also get free medical.  I have to pay taxes, my medical and food on my savings.  I had to forgo the needed roofing job on my house just to get a doctor's appointment and pay for the therapist. 
  The welfare food program is 3 tiered.  First there is the chit that pays for stuff such as baby formula and baby food.  The clerk at the register initials the chit, put the chit through the scanner, gets the required amount of formula out of the lockup display, scans the items to ok the sale.  Then they bring out the government issue debit card that will pay for any approved UPC code foodstuff listed to a certain amount.  Then they pay cash they earned under the table for detergent and soda pop.  It takes a while to process this stuff through the checkout and I am in the 15 items or less express lane?
  Joelene

[Joelene9]

Thanks Joelene,

What is going on and why don't you vote the buggers out?

Sorry I'm in no way anti-USA, just really worried for all my friends in the USA

Cindy

The politicians have nothing much to do with this.  This is a free enterprise system.  It was the corporate greed of the 80's and 90's that we are paying for now.  The deregulation of certain things helped to do this as well.  The politicians who were behind the deregulations in the 80's are dead now.  The stock speculators made the stocks and bonds go so artificially high that, when investors around late 1999-2000 started to cash in, they found only hollow shells of worth.  One by one the big companies failed and the markets started to slide to where it is now.  People were outed of their pensions and were laid off.  Enron is the poster boy here, but bigger companies have failed.  The events of 9-11 had very little effect in this, it was merely a time marker. 
  Joelene

[Amazon D]

  We have a welfare system that's badly flawed.  We got people that are working here illegally, getting paid lower untaxed wages under the table in cash, applying and getting welfare benefits I see about every time I go to the grocer.  These people come in from mainly from Mexico and San Salvador.  They also get free medical.  I have to pay taxes, my medical and food on my savings.  I had to forgo the needed roofing job on my house just to get a doctor's appointment and pay for the therapist. 
  The welfare food program is 3 tiered.  First there is the chit that pays for stuff such as baby formula and baby food.  The clerk at the register initials the chit, put the chit through the scanner, gets the required amount of formula out of the lockup display, scans the items to ok the sale.  Then they bring out the government issue debit card that will pay for any approved UPC code foodstuff listed to a certain amount.  Then they pay cash they earned under the table for detergent and soda pop.  It takes a while to process this stuff through the checkout and I am in the 15 items or less express lane?
  Joelene

After the Republican Great Depression, FDR put this nation back to work, in part by raising taxes on income above $3 to $4 million a year (in today's dollars) to 91 percent, and corporate taxes to over 50% of profits.





Every billion dollars (a half-week in Iraq) invested in infrastructure in America created 47,000 good-paying jobs as Americans built America.



Reagan promptly cut income taxes on the very rich from 70% down to 27%. Corporate tax rates were also cut so severely that they went from representing over 33% of total federal tax receipts in 1951 to less than 9% in 1983 (they're still in that neighborhood, the lowest in the industrialized world). 

Regan to cover his tax cuts doubled the tax paid only by people earning less than $40,000/year (FICA), and then began borrowing from the huge surplus this new tax was aculating in the Social Security Trust Fund.  Even with that, Reagan had to borrow more money in his 8 years than the sum total of all presidents from George Washington to Jimmy Carter combined.  Reagan's tax cut greatly diminished expenditures on infrastructure (bridges, roads, hospital, colleges, etc.)

When Reagan dropped the top income tax rate from over 70% down to under 30%, all hell broke loose. With the legal and social restraint to unlimited selfishness removed, "the good of the nation" was replaced by "greed is good" as the primary paradigm.

From other articles by Thom Hartmann published at commondreams.org

Since Bush has been president:

over 5 million people have slipped into poverty;
nearly 7 million Americans have lost their health insurance;
median household income has gone down by nearly $1,300;
three million manufacturing jobs have been lost;
three million American workers have lost their pensions;
home foreclosures are now the highest on record;
the personal savings rate is below zero - which hasn't happened since the great depression;
the real earnings of college graduates have gone down by about 5% in the last few years;
entry level wages for male and female high school graduates have fallen by over 3%;
wages and salaries are now at the lowest share of GDP since 1929.
Before Reagan years there were only about 1 million illegal aliens in our work force, when he left office 3 million, and today 12 million.  During that same period union membership has dropped from 25% to 7%.  Cheap labor increases corporate profits.   Before Reagan the enforcement of laws against hiring illegals served as a barrier to their entry. 

http://www.skeptically.org/wto/id19.html 🔗

[Joelene9]

Every billion dollars (a half-week in Iraq) invested in infrastructure in America created 47,000 good-paying jobs as Americans built America.

Yes!  If more Americans, especially the younger ones, would like to work with their hands we could get to this nation back on their feet.  As it is now, the undoented worker is doing these things and is doing these things under the minimum wage.  I got a whole neighborhood full of them.  The mortgagee is doented, but his extended family are not, a foot in the door.  The mortgagee and family lives in the house an average of 3 years then abandons the house and goes back home.  Their kids go to school, bring down the class academic level and the school system replies to that by turning my local high school into a charter school! 
  I seen the beginnings of this economic mess when I left the Navy in 1975.  It was 18 months after the Vietnam war.  Ford was president after Nixon stepped down.  The kids that were protesting the war and were "tuned out" went back to school to earn their degrees.  Our nation was at the pinnacle then.  These kids turned in their Hippie beads and lifestyle for Gucci rings and the chartruse minibuses for baby Mercedes.  By the late 70's they were known as YUPpies.  Young Urban Professionals.  "Upwardly Mobile" was their mantra.  These people were spendthrifts and they carried this kind of thing while climbing the corporate ladder, gaining influence.  The latter part of the 70's were known as the "Me first" decade and the call was "Looking out for number one".  Bad memories back then also with the refusal of the Shrink to start me on hormones. 
  The 80's saw Reagan with the deregulations.  The WWII generation was retiring in droves, leaving the yuppies in upper management.  These fancy trades and the hostile takeovers of good companies started, bought, then sold with huge profits.  A lot of employees got laid off when the old saw of generations of families working for the same company disappeared.  Other companies laid off workers when the newly installed computers red flagged them months before their retirement date.   For the bottom line, for GREED!  Greed is good.
  The 90's saw the emergence of the dot-coms.  These companies started with nothing, built up with nothing, and left us with nothing but debt when they collapsed.  Then came Enron, once an energy company named the Northern Natural Gas Company from Omaha established in 1935.  This company used the deregulations of the energy sector to move up by buying the smaller companies.  Because of loopholes in the reporting laws back then, Enron was allowed not to report certain liabilities on their stockholder statements.  It all went crashing down in  Aug. 2001 when a report of their losses came out.  I was let go of my second job at that time after I was laid off from the company I worked for nearly 20 years.  My doctor put me on antidepressants.  The owner of that niche industry shop has not hired anyone since, five fewer employees, less wages, no holiday pay.  That business is now for sale.  No sale, everybody goes home. 
  Joelene

[Jen61]

Perhaps a more relevant question is: "would it make any difference," or like the "counter culture" movment of the 60's at the end just generate revenues for the muscians and their associated industries.

Jen61

[Michelle.]

Congrats on occuping a private park near Wall Street.
Now what? What are your goals? What are your plans for the future? What are your demands?

As far as I can tell these are the same anarcho-commie rabble that show up from time to time. Mooch off of society and leave a mess for others to clean up.

So go on Barack and Nancy, you guys can own this one all you care to.

[Julie Marie]

The Washington Post published a graph 🔗 [Link: washingtonpost.com/wp-​srv/special/business/income-​inequality/] showing how the distribution of wealth is directly related to economic health.  When the bottom 90% of wage earners have about 70% of the wealth, the economy does well.  When they have about 50% of the wealth (as they did during the Great Depression and now), well, the results are obvious.

That graph also shows how the increase of wealth began to grow during the Reagan administration.  And on the other end, it shows how the pendulum was reversed during FDR's administration which brought the economy back to life.  Capitalism works, but not when those in control of the money and jobs take too big a share of the pie.

That the present movement has no real leadership doesn't bother me.  Leadership will come and so will a clear message as long as this thing continues.  And I believe it will.  There are too many people out of work who have lots of time on their hands. 

And if you need to know why people are protesting, take a look at this video clip of Alan Grayson 🔗 [Link: billmaher.com] from the current episode of Real Time with Bill Maher.  (It will probably be changed by 10/14 when a new show airs but you should be able to find it by looking for the 10/7 show featuring Alan Greyson.)

[Gadgett]

I do not get into politics so I will just say I'm not sure