How do you tell a woman/lesbian you're trans if you pass completely?

[AbraCadabra]

It was on my mind to ask that parallel question on 'how to tell a man', so here goes.

"How do you tell a woman (lesbian) you're trans if you pass completely?"

I think it leaves one in the same predicament... or can one just assume that lesbians or more accommodating of our trans history then men?

Something tells me it's not so - based on some intuition or call it instinct.

Any 'real life experience' you would like to share?

Thanks,
Axélle

[annette]

Yep, enough life experience.
I met a girl, have a good time together and when it becomes serious, I tell her.
She can take it or leave it, that's her choice, I don't have any influence on that.
If she stays we can have some good times, if she leaves, it's okay with me, she was probally not the right one after all.
I don't wanna be involved with narrow minded people anyway, men or women.
Let's face it, we are not schoolgirls anymore, everybody has a history, she too, so I have mine history, the bottomline is, you like eachother and that's where the start is from, if she is having the start of the relationship before the acquaintance, she can leave and stop nagging.
Important is that you keep your dignity, like a real lady does.

You see, simple question, simple answer.
To give you some courage, I never seen a girl/woman leaving, so there is hope.

hugs
Annette

[AbraCadabra]

* To give you some courage, I never seen a girl/woman leaving, so there is hope. *

Thanks Annette,
there may be more guys running after all - if you tell.
I've definately heard and seen some, with females, lesbian or straight,... I'm totally new to it.
So thanks for the "hope"... :-)

Though... it's easy to say keep your 'lady-like dignity' if you're head over heals... right?

If only so-so interested --- well,- if she walks, good riddance, no need to bother with stuck-up folks ok, but... as I said: don't "fall in love" before any of that transpires, as it WILL hurt... um.

Thanks hon,
Axélle

[annette]

You know what's funny Axelle?
Everytime you read something as the need for a guy to feel more womanly.
You're soooooo woman when you're accepted as a woman by other women.
Guys are easy, the skin is soft, there is a whole in it and with a bit of luck she can make the meals, it's okay with them, even one have some manly habits, it's okay, they like women who love sports watching, drinking too much, than she is a woman and the same time one of the guys, it's easier to understand for them
With women it's quite a different story, they have the right parts, they look at other things and you have to be womanly for a lesbian, when you're living together 24/7/365, no way to escape to former habits, no way.
It's the womenway or the highway.
So, with a woman you're way more female than you have ever been.
another difference, man are lurking to your looks, woman wants to know more from your personality, the way you talk, the way you smile, the way you look to things of life, the way you dress, the way you walk and the way you behave, these are the things for women to fall in love.
Good luck, just start a conversation to one of them, they won't bite.
If you have had a good conversation, go have dinner, go for a walk and have a good time together.
It's not too bad, really it isn't.
Hugs
Annette

[AbraCadabra]

Oh thanks honey! :-)

reading through your knowing, I'm a lessie alright.
Funny you mention it --- no need for me to feel more womanly 'serving' a male.
A tg friend young, 24, got just married to her man some weeks ago --- they visited, and here goes...
Sucking up to him and ever trying to figure out what can be said in his company - and what not. He is a nice guy – but 'guy limited'. When the two of us girls talk he is falling asleep on the couch. Grrrr

Help! That is the LAST thing I'd now need in my life, no thank you in deed.

Thanks for sharing dear, you're a good woman honey, and I'm touched.
Hug,
Axélle

[Anatta]

Kia Ora Axelle,

"How do you tell a woman/lesbian you're trans if you pass completely?"

Go on a 'lesbian' dating site !

Good luck on your search for 'love'...

Metta Zenda

[AbraCadabra]

I am on 2 such dating sites, but have not though it to be terribly wise to 'come out' as transsexual woman across the board, in declaring such at my introduction...

Now is THAT what you be suggesting? Really?

Joking, eh :-)
Axélle

[justmeinoz]

Being a 'lipstick lesbian', I am finding that the much talked about 'femme invisibility' does exist.  I am going to get a rainbow tattoo on my right ring finger and see if that works as a signal for women's gaydar.  I'll post here if it works.  Lots of 'femme' dykes seem to complain of being ignored, as in the last issue of "Diva" magazine.
Karen.

[eli77]

A couple presents:

http://www.autostraddle.com/you-need-help-so-youre-femme-and-no-one-knows-youre-gay-120512/

and (Ivan is partly speaking to femmes who like butches, but it applies generally too):

To all of the kick ass, beautiful fierce femmes out there...


Much <3 from yer andro sister,

Sarah

[Anatta]

I am on 2 such dating sites, but have not though it to be terribly wise to 'come out' as transsexual woman across the board, in declaring such at my introduction...

Now is THAT what you be suggesting? Really?

Joking, eh :-)
Axélle

Kia Ora Axelle,

I'm not familiar dating sites, but I was under the impression you could PM each other...

Metta Zenda

[AbraCadabra]

Hi Zenda,

well, US$10 for 3 days of explaining myself by PM...

I was not yet desperate enough to look into this 'next step' of those FREE dating sites.

You put your 'stuff' out there and all that follows is call an 'upgrade' i.e. pay as you go, hum

:-)
Axélle

[Renee]

I actually fully disclosed my history on a dating site and met my perfect partner .  We have been dating now for almost a year and will be living together in March.  I never even hoped that would happen, I just wanted to meet somone to have a good time.  Life!  Ya never know what's around the corner!!!

[mm]

Congraduation Jenna Renee, to finding the right partner for you.  Many of us have to keep looking.

[Annah]

Honestly, I would approach it the same way as I would with a man. Keep my transgender"ness" to myself and if she asks me out and I like her, I would tell her I am trans probably after the first date and DEF before we go any further. Hell, I'd probably tell her before the first date. I'm really big into honesty and being open.

A real life example of this would have been last October (2010) and a woman asked me out. She's been a lesbian all her life and never been with a man....they call themselves "Gold Star Lesbians." Their label...not mine

So when she asked me out, I said "sure,but this is what you need to know...."  I told her and after about 30 minutes on thinking about it, she called me asking if we can continue to go out. We went out for about a couple months and then went our own separate ways (she had an unhealthy attachment to her mother IMO....spent over 9 hours a day with her. She would go to bed at 4am and get up a 1pm (non work related)...She's 45.

But when it came to me being trans, it wasn't an issue at all when I told them (dated 2 girls seriously after I transitioned).  It would have been a problem if I kept it a secret

[AbraCadabra]

Thanks once again Annah, for good advice based on experience.

It makes sense, also when considering: "Because those who mind don't matter - And those that matter don't mind.. " B. Baruch

Axelle

[Julie Wilson]

Having transitioned some time ago it is interesting to me how some people frame this discussion.  For instance the, "I am very honest so I would tell right away." Meme.  The thing is being trans and identifying as trans is something people tend to experience while they are new to transition but as time passes some settle into just being who they have always been.  Part of transition for me was realizing I had always been female and after transition was done I tend to introduce myself as who I am and who I have always been.  Trans was a medical process to correct my life, not an identity, not who or what I am.

So for me being honest about who I am and allowing people to experience me as honestly as possible generally requires not dredging up my medical history.  I find that most people, once they find out I transitioned, they think of me as a male who became a lady (etc.)  Which is not the case but that's generally impossible to explain to most people to any degree of satisfaction.  I find that most people, once they find out or know tend to think of me as a male who is disguising himself as a woman or like who I am is an act or a performance or a trick.  To further confuse things I have met some trans women who tend to support those accusations with their identities.

So to make things simple and to keep things honest I don't tell people I transitioned.

[Annah]

Having transitioned some time ago it is interesting to me how some people frame this discussion.  For instance the, "I am very honest so I would tell right away." Meme.  The thing is being trans and identifying as trans is something people tend to experience while they are new to transition but as time passes some settle into just being who they have always been.  Part of transition for me was realizing I had always been female and after transition was done I tend to introduce myself as who I am and who I have always been.  Trans was a medical process to correct my life, not an identity, not who or what I am.

I do agree with some of this. I do consider myself as fully female. Since I was five I believed this.

So for me being honest about who I am and allowing people to experience me as honestly as possible generally requires not dredging up my medical history.  I find that most people, once they find out I transitioned, they think of me as a male who became a lady (etc.)  Which is not the case but that's generally impossible to explain to most people to any degree of satisfaction.  I find that most people, once they find out or know tend to think of me as a male who is disguising himself as a woman or like who I am is an act or a performance or a trick.  To further confuse things I have met some trans women who tend to support those accusations with their identities.

In society and the world, it is very complicated and diverse. In a perfect utopian society there would be no need to tell someone you love that you were transgender. However, this world isn't like that and everyone does not think the same. You have diversity of sexual preferences and gender preferences. While you and I believe we are fully female, others simply do not.

If I were to keep my past a secret then, in a way, that is like saying I do not trust my partner with how they will respond and see me. Also, the person who you are dating will feel cheated and lied too by keeping this a secret because there are some who just does not see things the way we do.

Furthermore, it is impossible to be fully stealth. Unless you sever ties with your family and anyone pre transitioned as well as not allowing your partner to ever go to a hospital with you (even during emergencies), then your partner will find out and if they were even fine with your past before, they will have a harder time trusting you because you could not trust them about your past.

Also, I have no desire to date anyone who will see me as a man prior. I would have no idea what their position is if I never told them. If I tell them, then I will know where they stand....either they see me as a female or they don't. I will know right then and there. Why would I give my heart to anyone who may not agree with my beliefs? And who would give me their heart if they knew I was hiding something?

So to make things simple and to keep things honest I don't tell people I transitioned.

I wished it was that simple but it isn't. You will have to perfect the art of keeping such a major past a total secret....and so far I have never met one trans person who spent years with their partner without the partner knowing about it.....and I never seen a happy ending where the partner found out about it dozens of years down the road either.

And welcome back to the forums

[Julie Wilson]

Okay...  Lets consider a hypothetical situation.  Someone transitions at two years of age.  Does this person have to tell a partner that he or she transitioned in order to avoid (as you put it) "Keeping the past a secret" or in order to avoid, "Having the person you are dating, feeling cheated or lied to?"  You make a lot of statements that sound true on the surface, but they are only true because you have made a personal choice to believe in them.  No doubt you will base outcomes and situations against the reality you have created for yourself which will appear to confirm and reinforce your beliefs.  As in "X's boyfriend dumped her after he found out from a friend that she transitioned because that is how life is and because she didn't take my advice about dating.

And consider this...  Not all families would out a trans child.  I know it may seem difficult to imagine because you are no doubt basing your "reality" on your experiences, but not everyone lives in your version of reality.

So based on my hypothetical at what point does a person have to live with a secret?

Your suggestions regarding "stealth" and hiding a secret sort of tell me where you are at with your transition.  Like someone else said on another forum, "stealth" is a phase between passing and assimilation.  If you really believe that you have to hide the past then that is where you are at and nothing I can say will sway you.  But many who transition realize more and more after finishing transition that they were their target sex all along and they have been who they are all along.  In short they begin to realize they have nothing to hide.

If someone continues to believe that he or she has to either be "out" or hide the past (after fully transitioning) then that says more about identity than morality.  That really speaks to what he or she believes about his or her self.  Freud could explain this situation.  Other than that maybe someone failed to change paperwork, etc. etc., failed to finish electrolysis or just never moved forward with life as his or her target sex after transition.  Unless your identity is wrapped up in being trans or gender incongruity then why not move forward with being who you say you always were?  (Assuming "you" tote that line, being lots of people will probably read this post so I am writing it to the Universal you.)  In my experience if you have always been your target sex and if you finish transition then you tend to loose what wasn't you like a snake sheds her skin instead of carrying it forward in the form of a secret.

It is hard to imagine seeing life differently but my experience is that transition tends to be something that allows people to do just that.  Something that may have seemed inconceivable becomes mundane perhaps.

Making statements about reality isn't all it is cracked up to be.  A good book on the subject would be Don Miguel Ruiz's  'The Four Agreements'.

Also it doesn't matter to me if my partner knows I transitioned or not.  In fact I have been seeing someone for over a year who had heard I transitioned but I never allowed it to become a conversation because to me it is not up for discussion.  People either accept you or they don't and relationships are (in my experience) definitely not about baring your soul, rather relationships tend to be about loyalty and caring for one another, they aren't about secret sharing O_o in my experience, at least the good ones aren't.  However if you are "out" with other people besides the person whom you are dating (etc.) then that is just plain disrespectful and violates loyalty but if you are loyal to yourself and if you are loyal to your belief that you have somehow always been a man or a woman then you can begin to extend that loyalty to others without betraying them.

Feel free to be right but personally I have found it is better to be flexible.

I refuse to limit myself to living a compartmentalized life out of respect for what others might think if they find out I transitioned.  If living with that sort of compromise seems reasonable to you then go for it but for me transition has been all about exploring potential and moving past old, oppressive and self-limiting ideas.

[Re: Joyce]

+1 from me!

     I think you've hit upon the key issue here.

      Just how much and how soon should be disclosed from our past?   How about losing a job because of poor performance?   A failed business ruining your credit because of a bankruptcy?   An arrest record from your youth?   C'mon....

      I don't know of a law (yet) requiring people to have a warning label....   

      The more women I know who've been transitioned longer, the less they discuss these things at all.

       However, if you still have bits in your panties, better be talking fast and soon.

[Annah]

Okay...  Lets consider a hypothetical situation.  Someone transitions at two years of age.  Does this person have to tell a partner that he or she transitioned in order to avoid (as you put it) "Keeping the past a secret" or in order to avoid, "Having the person you are dating, feeling cheated or lied to?"  You make a lot of statements that sound true on the surface, but they are only true because you have made a personal choice to believe in them.  No doubt you will base outcomes and situations against the reality you have created for yourself which will appear to confirm and reinforce your beliefs.  As in "X's boyfriend dumped her after he found out from a friend that she transitioned because that is how life is and because she didn't take my advice about dating.

My reasons are based on how society sees it. If you kept it a secret from your partner for decades and then that partner finds out, I doubt the analogy of a two year old who transitions will make much of an impact.

These aren't just from my own beliefs...it's from a good number of people I know or heard of who experienced this.

And consider this...  Not all families would out a trans child.  I know it may seem difficult to imagine because you are no doubt basing your "reality" on your experiences, but not everyone lives in your version of reality.

A two year will have a lifetime of friends who did not know her prior to transition. A 40 year old will have a lifetime of friends and family that may "accidentally" say something that will out you. Same with a 20 year old.

So based on my hypothetical at what point does a person have to live with a secret?

A secret is a secret. There really isn't a hypothetical situation that will make society feel different about it.

Your suggestions regarding "stealth" and hiding a secret sort of tell me where you are at with your transition.  Like someone else said on another forum, "stealth" is a phase between passing and assimilation.  If you really believe that you have to hide the past then that is where you are at and nothing I can say will sway you.  But many who transition realize more and more after finishing transition that they were their target sex all along and they have been who they are all along.  In short they begin to realize they have nothing to hide.

I have transitioned. And I am also stealth in some circles and not stealth in others. To believe that one can be 100% stealth is just a set up for disappointment. Unless, of course, you transitioned at two years of age.

You live your life and I live mine. I am simply giving my perception based on what I have experienced and my own convictions. I wouldn't ever keep someone I loved from knowing who I am. I couldn't do that.

And from where I am seeing it, not telling one's partner tells me one would be afraid they will not be accepted by the partner