What Do Buddhists 'Believe' ?

[Anatta]

Kia Ora,

Another instant "Buddhism In A Nut-Shell" moment... and some might say "Said the loose 'nut' outside the shell !" 

What Do Buddhists Believe ?  Well on a conventional/mundane level, Buddhists believe many things...But on the ultimate/spiritual level "Absolutely Nothing !" If one continues to cling to a belief, one will never 'know' !

Metta Zenda

[spacial]

One of the problems with a number of religious diciplines, Buddhism included, is whatever you say, someone wants to argue.

But on a basic level, my understanding is that Buddhism is much like Hinduism, from which is emerged. Namely, that life force is continually recycled so we experience rebirth.

Most Hindus believe is a single God, while many Buddhists don't.

Most Hindus believe the recycling of the life force will eventually lead to it rejoining, for want of a better term, with the Godhead, while Buddhists seem to be divided between those that thing the recycling is continuous, those that believe it will end, though a bit confused as to how and those that offer silly responses. (Especially annoying when it comes in an American Accent!)

Many Buddhist sects have diverged from the essential model and claim that some are specifically and intentionally reborn. Tibeten Buddhism for example, claims that it's king will be continually reborn. Others have similar notions.

Personally, I didn't spend a lot of time looking at Buddhists. But since this is a Buddhist section, it may be rude to say too much.

[jojoglowe]

Side note: anyone read the book Siddhartha?

Just like spacial said, I think looking at Buddhism's roots in Hinduism is very important in understanding what Buddhists believe. So to understand Buddhism, one must first understand Hinduism.

From my understanding, Hinduism isn't an "ism" at all. It is an umbrella term that westerners created to describe the spiritual beliefs and practices of the Indian people. Within Hinduism there are different sects, each with it's own twist, each with it's own aspect of the supreme deity.

I think Siddhartha saw certain practices of the people of India, like the caste system, as bad and he wanted to start a sect that didn't believe/follow the caste system. Perhaps that is the main difference between Hinduism and Buddhism.  It is very reminiscent of the protestant reformation happening as a result of someone being upset about the indulgences. <or whatever it was called where you paid $ and received a get outta hell free card. Or possibly similar to how Christianity came out of Judaism.

Over time and space, the Buddhists have branched out and now we find many different sects of Buddhism. Perhaps this is the natural way, differentiation/entropy.

So not having said anything about what the Buddhists believe, well... I think there are certain observable truths in life that don't require a faith to believe. Many people say Buddhism isn't a faith, but a philosophy. I think Hinduism and Buddhism are less faith-based and more direct-experience based. Things like meditation and yoga enable us to experience the concepts that are written about. And if religions are supposed to be teaching truth and wisdom, there should be many similarities between them all. I think this is the case, especially between Hinduism and Buddhism. They differ mainly in that they are applied in different spaces and times and each branch of each group focuses on different aspects of the universal truths.

Wow, that was long.

Disclaimer: I have no clue what I'm talking about, but if you haven't read the book Siddhartha, check it out~very quick and AWESOME!

[Anatta]

Kia Ora

And thanks for your personal insights on what you "believe" Buddhists believe...

Just to clarify what is meant by "Absolutely Nothing"...

The way 'I' see things, the Buddha's Dharma teaches us not to believe something is true just because we are 'told' it's true...To fall into the mind trap of continually clinging to a 'belief' leaves one stuck in the samsaric cycle of birth and death-and ones desire/craving to make permanent that which is impermanent...[See The Four Noble Truths] He spoke of The Eight Fold Path as a means of overcoming the samsaric cycle to become free of the un-satisfactory 'clinging' nature of existence, and by following this path one will  gradually do away with  mundane beliefs by actually 'experiencing' the truth first hand, and by doing so ones known 'beliefs'[in the Dharma=true nature of things] become 'realisations' ...One no longer believes but 'knows' ...

God/s [as in the western concept of god/s] play no part in the essence of the Buddha's teachings, however for some Buddhist sects they are used as a powerful tool to train the 'imaginative' mind...Hence they can carry a lot of clout so to speak...
Plus one has to take into account when Buddhism spread to different parts of the world, it became entwined with the cultural 'beliefs' of the locals of which many of these cultural beliefs involved gods of all kinds ...

Then we have the Universal law/cycle of cause, condition and effect, which in my humble opinion leaves no room for a creator god...When it comes to the creation of the universe, there is no 'first' cause as such. Trying to find the beginning will not bring one any closer to finding true contentment in this life ... 

In a sense the Buddhist journey of 'non' self-discovery, starts on an individual level which eventually leads to 'amalgamation'...

There's knowing about something [which is 'just' a belief] and there's  experiencing what is known=realisation ... 

Many of us have a vast array of knowledge, but it would seem we have yet to 'realise' [experience] much of what we think we 'know' !

Beliefs tend to leave one pining for the contentment that comes from knowing!

On the mundane level the Buddha spoke nonsense...On the ultimate level the Buddha spoke 'non' sense...And by using the Eight Fold Path as a 'guide' the lay person can work out the 'difference' !

No-Thing is quite what it seems !

Now one does not have to 'believe' any of the above nonsense, in fact it pays not to believe it !

Metta Zenda

"In a nutshell, The Four Noble Truths...One could say the Buddha was a doctor here to solve a problem: unsatisfactoriness. In ancient Indian culture, the doctor performs 4 steps: he identifies and acknowledges the problem, finds the source of the problem, state that there is a cure, and prescribes the cure. The Four Noble Truths can be seen as such an exercise. The 1st Noble Truth acknowledges that the problem of Dukkha exists. The 2nd finds the source. The 3rd states that a solution is possible. And the 4th prescribes the solution=The Noble Eight Fold Path!"

[peky]

Kia Ora,
on the ultimate/spiritual level "Absolutely Nothing !" If one continues to cling to a belief, one will never 'know' !

Metta Zenda

Believing in "absolutely nothing" is the ultimate way to anhilate the Spirit

[Anatta]

Believing in "absolutely nothing" is the ultimate way to anhilate the Spirit

Kia Ora Peky,

Or a way to true knowledge !

  BTW notice how 'I' didn't say "On the ultimate level Buddhists believe 'in' Absolutely Nothing".... If one continues to cling to a belief, one will never 'know' !

So now Grasshopper you must follow the yellow brick road [The Eight Fold Path] to find the true nature of the statement! That is if you dare

Metta Zenda

[LilDevilOfPrada]

One of the problems with a number of religious diciplines, Buddhism included, is whatever you say, someone wants to argue.

But on a basic level, my understanding is that Buddhism is much like Hinduism, from which is emerged. Namely, that life force is continually recycled so we experience rebirth.

Most Hindus believe is a single God, while many Buddhists don't.

Most Hindus believe the recycling of the life force will eventually lead to it rejoining, for want of a better term, with the Godhead, while Buddhists seem to be divided between those that thing the recycling is continuous, those that believe it will end, though a bit confused as to how and those that offer silly responses. (Especially annoying when it comes in an American Accent!)

Many Buddhist sects have diverged from the essential model and claim that some are specifically and intentionally reborn. Tibeten Buddhism for example, claims that it's king will be continually reborn. Others have similar notions.

Personally, I didn't spend a lot of time looking at Buddhists. But since this is a Buddhist section, it may be rude to say too much.

One thing you said I must argue with, Hindus believe in multiple gods.

Also ONE thing buddists really super heavily care about is their past lives. (at least the monks and such I met in Taiwan did)

When I went to taian with my friend I learnt about how due to signs pointing he was bad person in her old life she was strictly forbidden to pray to many of their religious figures(not sure all of them were gods so I dont want to be inaccurate).

However!! This could simply apply to Taiwan buddists. I am no expert just a person who visted 15 temples in a month it was amazing, except for the horrible tourists with flash cameras....

[spacial]

One thing you said I must argue with, Hindus believe in multiple gods.

No, sorry.

In Hinduism, people seek to ascend beyond their physical existence and ultimately return to Godhead.

People who are recognized as having achieved that are referred to, in English and some other languages, as gods. Whereas, they are believed to have merged with the Godhead and no longer exist as separate entities.

These people's lives are often emulated, sometimes by millions, in an attempt to follow the same path. To essentially, cease to exist.

They could be referred to as saints but saint isn't really adequate.

But according to Hindus, there is only one unity, the Godhead.

My apologies to any Hindu scholars or clerics for my terminologies. They are intended to explain not offend.

[Anatta]

Also ONE thing buddists really super heavily care about is their past lives. (at least the monks and such I met in Taiwan did)

Kia Ora LDOP,

Buddhists acknowledge that ones life today is due to what has happened in the 'past'...But what's most important is 'NOW' how one behaves [thought, words and deeds] in the 'present moment' !

One's past shapes ones present which in turn shapes ones future-According to the karmic laws of cause, condition and effect-past actions are very important...

Metta Zenda

[LilDevilOfPrada]

Kia Ora LDOP,

Buddhists acknowledge that ones life today is due to what has happened in the 'past'...But what's most important is 'NOW' how one behaves [thought, words and deeds] in the 'present moment' !

One's past shapes ones present which in turn shapes ones future-According to the karmic laws of cause, condition and effect-past actions are very important...

Metta Zenda

Oh oops soz I got that wrong then

[Anatta]

Side note: anyone read the book Siddhartha?


So not having said anything about what the Buddhists believe, well... I think there are certain observable truths in life that don't require a faith to believe. Many people say Buddhism isn't a faith, but a philosophy. I think Hinduism and Buddhism are less faith-based and more direct-experience based. Things like meditation and yoga enable us to experience the concepts that are written about. And if religions are supposed to be teaching truth and wisdom, there should be many similarities between them all. I think this is the case, especially between Hinduism and Buddhism. They differ mainly in that they are applied in different spaces and times and each branch of each group focuses on different aspects of the universal truths.

Wow, that was long.

Disclaimer: I have no clue what I'm talking about, but if you haven't read the book Siddhartha, check it out~very quick and AWESOME!

Kia Ora Jojo,

Nice take on explaining the difference between believing in and knowing=realisation...

If you are on about Herman Hesse's book, yes it's an interesting book...

Metta Zenda

[Anatta]

Oh oops soz I got that wrong then

Kia Ora LDOP,

One can't change the past, but one can make preparations for ones future...

Metta Zenda

[peky]

Kia Ora Peky,

Or a way to true knowledge !

  BTW notice how 'I' didn't say "On the ultimate level Buddhists believe 'in' Absolutely Nothing".... If one continues to cling to a belief, one will never 'know' !

So now Grasshopper you must follow the yellow brick road [The Eight Fold Path] to find the true nature of the statement! That is if you dare

Metta Zenda

My problem with Buddhism is that at is ultimate level, no desire no nothing, it leaves us with a bunch of individual who have no desire or motivation fto further the technological progress of humanity

[spacial]

If I'm not mistaken peky, you're Jewish.

I would think any of the Hindu disciplines would be a very big leap for you, culturally speaking.

[peky]

If I'm not mistaken peky, you're Jewish.

I would think any of the Hindu disciplines would be a very big leap for you, culturally speaking.

I do not quiet understand what assumption or knowledge would lead you to make such an assumption or statement. Would you like to expand as to what is missing in Judaism that can be learned by Hinduism?

BTW my remarks were about Buddhism tendency to generate nihilism, and were not about Hinduism.

[Anatta]

My problem with Buddhism is that at is ultimate level, no desire no nothing, it leaves us with a bunch of individual who have no desire or motivation fto further the technological progress of humanity

Kia Ora Peky, [Grasshopper]

I can see where you are coming from, it can be quite hard to grasp the whole concept of having no desires whatsoever, however this is not really the case for Buddhists... Alan Watts explains this better[more eloquently] than I can...So......

 

It's all about a subtle shift in ones desire : "Don't desire to give up more desire than you can-and if you find that's a problem then don't desire to be successful in giving up more desire than you can !"

There's an old Zen koan that goes "Before enlightenment chop wood and fetch water-After enlightenment chop wood and fetch water" Nothing's changed except how ones sees one 'self' in the scheme of things !

BTW Science and progress are not enemies of Buddhism, there are quite a number of Scientists who are Buddhist practitioners-and out of compassion they  also work for the betterment of humanity...

Just an add on Re: Buddhism and Science some might find interesting...



Metta Zenda
... 

[spacial]

I do not quiet understand what assumption or knowledge would lead you to make such an assumption or statement. Would you like to expand as to what is missing in Judaism that can be learned by Hinduism?

That, with respect, isn't what I said at all. 

[jojoglowe]

i think i understand what spacial was getting at. I was raised roman catholic and there was a bit of culture shock that I experienced when getting into Hinduism. Like, dropping my catholic guilt and not looking at everything in a duality, those were big cultural roadblocks at first.

If you are on about Herman Hesse's book, yes it's an interesting book...

^indeed

Back to the guilt. I remember having feelings of guilt when I first began using Hindu chants. I chant them all the time now, but when I first started my mind would do the "hey 1st commandment no other gods" I now have a deeper understanding of that 1st commandment which fits into Hindu and Buddhist teachings, as well as Catholic. The false god isn't Brahma or anyone else, as they are true gods too. The false god would be my attachment to anything that prevents me from fully praising/accepting that ultimate god.

Om Namah Shivāya is one of my favorite chants.

pronunciation:


Ok, last bit, I think Catholicism always taught me that I would find peace after I died. Well, Hinduism and Buddhism tell you to find peace now. Once you die its too late.

Beatles - Within You Without You
And the people-who hide themselves behind a wall of illusion
Never glimpse the truth-then it's far too late-when they pass away

<3

[spacial]

i think i understand what spacial was getting at. I was raised roman catholic and there was a bit of culture shock that I experienced when getting into Hinduism. Like, dropping my catholic guilt and not looking at everything in a duality, those were big cultural roadblocks at first.

Quite, though I doubt that could have been attributed to soemthing 'missing' from Catholism.

[peky]

That, with respect, isn't what I said at all. 

Hi, Jill,

My mistake, yes, that is not what you said, I stand corrected.

The mysticism of Judaism is not too far from the mystics in Christianity. For example the teachings of Teresa de Avila, and Juan de la Cruz are not dissimilar to those tough by the Kabbalits Luria, de Leon and Cordovero. Both Christian and Jewish mysticism seeks through meditation to engage the mind in a closer connection with G-d. Hinduism and Buddhism on the other hand seek the opposite, that is to disengage the mind.