Attack in Pontiac leaves one nearly dead

[beth]

Attack in Pontiac leaves one nearly dead



Police are calling a brutal attack on a transgender woman and "a 46-year-old man who cross-dresses" a gay hate crime. The assault outside their home in downtown Pontiac, Michigan, nearly killed one victim. "It appears that a vehicle followed them home," said police Sgt. William Ware. "They had left a bar downtown. The (attacker) was calling them names and taunting them."


These kinds of attacks are completely disgusting, I am for capitol punishment for this kind of creep.  beth

read complete story here:

http://www.queerday.com/2005/oct/26/attack_in_pontiac_leaves_one_nearly_dead.html#more

[Valerie]

My God I am sick to my stomach....

[Shelley]

You just want to ask why?

Shelley

[Valerie]

Is anyone also annoyed by the fact that they're calling it a gay hate crime, rather than a transphobic crime?

[Shelley]

To me it doesn't really matter. It's the hate part that irks me.

Shelley

[beth]

           I think it matters, when hate crimes bills are considered, they may say there is no need to add transgendered to the list because attacks are rare. Statistics say transgendered people are much less likely to be attacked than men or women which I find incredable.


beth

[Chaunte]

I have to agree with Beth.

If transgendered is not added to the law, then we have no legal status for protection.  IF we say that being transgendered is sepearate from being gay, lesbian or bisexual, then we need language to specifically include and protect transgendered indivuals.

Chaunte

[Valerie]

I also think it affects public opinion of TG individuals. If the police are calling it a gay hate crime, the general public will continue to have the misconception that homosexuality has a direct correlational and/or causal relationship with transgenderism.  (did that come out right?)

Of course, that very misconception could be why the crime occurred to begin with--though I doubt there are many who would be accepting of homosexuality and still commit atrocities against TG people, even if they knew the difference.

And if someone is attacked who is NOT gay, but the attacker uses anti-gay epithets, then it was still an anti-gay crime, as far as the intention, the motive, of the attacker. But whether or not the attacker understands the difference between transgenderism and homosexuality, he was still spurred on by the fact that the victim appeared to be a guy in girl's clothing, and it was a transphobic crime.

It breaks my heart and makes me sick that anyone would want to harm another human being....

Valerie

[Cassandra]

I think a little benefit of the doubt might be in order here. Perhaps the police did in fact find it heinous and a hate crime against transgendered people but figured the law only allows gay so they figured half a loaf is better than none. The fault is in the law and sometimes the police do use anything they think might stick, especially when they feel it deserves special attention. What should be applauded is that they saw it as a hate crime at all. That is progress but with a long ways to go.

Cassie

[Valerie]

Perhaps the police did in fact find it heinous and a hate crime against transgendered people but figured the law only allows gay

Yeah, Cass, I had actually pondered that myself after I posted...   If there's no little box with 'transgender' on it, they probably don't get a write-in!...and have to choose the next best thing...

Valerie

[joanna]

This story is so very sad.   Why, why do people who hate like this exist.  Hopefully they will be imprisoned and never see the light of day again.

However there is an even sadder component to this story.  The transgendered are not specifically protected under the current Federal Hate Crimes Laws.   

There  were some changes last year which added violent crimes based on sexual orientation, gender, and disability, in addition to the existing categories of race, color, religion, and national origin.

As you can see it is questionable if we are covered.  Sexual orientation refers to the sexual gender to which a person is attracted.   In other words homosexual or lesbian.  I'm not sure how we could fit into the "gender" or "disability" categories.  As you can see, we are a gray area.

Hopefully, the state of Michigan will have stiff laws to deal very harshly with these very sick people.  It will be interesting to see what punishment they receive.

I sincerely hope the victims of this senseless crime will fully recover.


joanna

[Shelley]

I probably should add clarification to my comment. I agree TG should also be included in the hate crime categories. I just fail to understand how hate is a motivation for these crimes. I think any crime committed because someone is different indicates a deep seated problem in that individual that needs to be treated differently to crimes motivated by other reasons.

Shelley

[beth]

I agree Shelly,

                It is deep seated and I believe it is practicaly incurable. Any creep like this given jail time will just blame his perceived misfortune on the victims. "If those "blank blank" perverts hadn't been flaunting it in front of me I wouldn't be here".  Hate crimes should have increasing sentences for repeat offenders and the third instance should be life without parole. Further occurances in prison should carry a mandatory death sentence.

beth

[joanna]

I re-read the article again and unfortunately it did not indicate that the assailant was arrested.   I hope this is not the case.  This would make this story a double tragedy with this horribly sick person still roaming free.

I will attempt to find out more about this in the next week or so.  I have a distant relative in the Pontiac Michigan Area.  I hope they still remember me.

love,


joanna

[Leigh]

Why is there a difference between assault on a woman, a man or someone who is Trans?

Why does it seem that we (as a community) demand extra punishment for a hate crime?

Isn't being beaten up  or murdered the same crime no matter the reason?  Equal protection under the law is supposedly the same for all.  Adding additional penalties does not appear ( to me ) to have deterred anyone from committing a single crime.

Until the punishment is immediate, severe and not subject to time off for good behavior there is no punishment or damn little of it.

It was sugar in my diet, I was drunk, gay panic, bad childhood, drugs, peer pressure, whatever.  I could give a rosey red R A.  You did it, you pay for it.

Leigh

[Dennis]

Because, Leigh, attitudes are different towards women, trans, straight and gay. And hate crimes legislation says it's not ok for someone to incite hatred because of someone's social status.

If you look at gang behaviour, you see violence committed because people egg each other on, and it's often because someone fits a vulnerable group definition. You don't see people going out hunting white straight men. You do see people going out intending to gay-bash. The legislation is meant to catch that at the start. It's worse, in my opinion, to go out to hunt a random person down because they're gay or trans, than many other murders.

It's not that actually killing a trans person is worse than killing someone else. It's that the dog-pack mentality of hunting someone down exists where the victim is trans, gay, black, hispanic, or whatever.

Dennis

[LostInTime]

I think that all crime is a hate crime.  I believe that in the eyes of the law we should not have to be classified this way or that.  Did the accused break the law?  Does the evidence support? 

However, people have their own little bits of opinion when it comes to certain people within our society.  They then allow those views to impact what should be a pretty simple and straight forward process.  The result?  The woman was asking for it, wearing that skirt.  That "guy" was asking  for it, he was wearing a dress.  Abusers and killers have had a hand slapping or been set free because one segment of society was viewed to be less worth than the others.  That is why these hate crime laws and penalties were introduced, to make sure that even the most bigoted judge will have to hand down a serious penalty for a serious crime.

Or as Queensryche put forth in their song, `Speak':

The system we learn says we're equal under law
But the streets are reality, the weak and poor will fall

For me, I am glad that I can go about armed.

[Thundra]

"MMMMMMMMMM"  My best Marge Simpson imitation.

Leigh, are you baiting me luv?   

<<Why is there a difference between assault on a woman, a man or someone who is Trans?>>

Theoretically, there is not!  Trans- is just a prefix, or so I thought?

<<Why does it seem that we (as a community) demand extra punishment for a hate crime?>>

Because that seems to be the model set forth in previous discrimination type crimes, ala racism, as the motivating factor in committing said crime.

<<Isn't being beaten up  or murdered the same crime no matter the reason?  Equal protection under the law is supposedly the same for all.  Adding additional penalties does not appear ( to me ) to have deterred anyone from committing a single crime.>>

<sigh>  Too true.  I guess I see it more as keeping them put away than preventing a crime.

<<Until the punishment is immediate, severe and not subject to time off for good behavior there is no punishment or damn little of it.>>

To my memory, nobody has gotten the death penalty for a hate crime as yet?  Except of course if you are Eileen Wuornos, who hated men. That was of course a no-no, and so she is gone.  >

<<It was sugar in my diet, I was drunk, gay panic, bad childhood, drugs, peer pressure, whatever.  I could give a rosey red R A.  You did it, you pay for it. >>

I am still against the death penalty.  I do however believe that all pedophiles should be abducted by an angry mob and disembowed.
But that's just me?   

What solution?  You know my solution!

[Leigh]

Leigh, are you baiting me luv?   

When and if I did there would be no question about it.

Baiting?  Reminds me of a line in a B&A song.

[Tiffanie]

This is a touchy and emotional subject to be sure.

Isn't being beaten up  or murdered the same crime no matter the reason?  Equal protection under the law is supposedly the same for all.  Adding additional penalties does not appear ( to me ) to have deterred anyone from committing a single crime.

I agree with Leigh.  The issue isn't why someone got beaten, robbed, raped or killed.  The issue is making punishment swift enough and severe enough to deter people from committing the crimes in the first place.  Another issue is closing legal loopholes that allow criminals to get charges reduced or dismissed altogether.

Also I think that in many cases hate isn't the motivating factor for a crime.  Ignorance, jealousy and fear tend to provoke people into doing things.  I work with children who have special needs and I've watched as other children pass nearby.  The other so called "normal" children do not understand the developmental disabilities, or perhaps they fear that they may become like the special needs kids.  Instead of just walking by they pick on the special needs kids, sometimes pretty ruthlessly.  They don't hate the kids they just don't understand.  If the teasing turns into harassing or worse the kids should be punished ... not just because they crossed the line with a child with developmental disabilities, but because they crossed the line at all.

Crimes like this make me very sad and angry.  I hope the jerks who did this get the maximum punishment allowed.