Looks are everything

[Tatyana]

Hi everyone

I've been reading through the forums for quite some time now and I've read a lot of posts about people getting harassed, assaulted and even killed.  Very scary stuff. I'm curious about something.  I'm a MTF preop but I got lucky.  I'm almost completely passable except for my voice.  It always gives me away because I can't disguise it very well so people I encounter regularly eventually figure it out.  What puzzles me though is that no one is nasty to me.  They use the female pronouns despite knowing what I am and I have never been harassed so far.  So from my perspective it's not a matter of being a transexual but weather or not you look the part.  I honestly don't think people care if someone is a transexual as long as they are passable.  My boss and coworkers treat me well but if I looked like a man things would probably not be so good. In fact I would probably be fired.  I go to the Harley shop all the time to buy t-shirts and such.  The place is always full of bikers who know me rather well because I'm in there a lot but I've never had a problem.  But I'll bet if I looked like a dude instead of a Betty I probably wouldn't be able to go in there.  So is it perhaps a psychological effect?  What exactly is going on with people and transgender persons?

[Ltl89]

Judging from what I have seen, I think this is how a lot of people feel.  I notice some of the more passable trans girls tend to have positive experiences where some of those who are less fortunate share some of their negative stories.  This, of course, is just a slight trend I've noticed which isn't necessarily right or wrong in reality.  I'm just basing some of my experiences with support groups and trans people I have met.  However, looking the part seems to matter just as much to others as ourselves.  I don't know what that says about them.  I suppose this is one of the many reasons that I hope to pass when the time comes.

By the way, welcome to Susan's!

[Heather]

A lot of how your treated depends on the area your in and passing does help. I'm kinda in the same boat as you I pass alright until I open my mouth. I know it's shocking but most people aren't going to treat you like crap if they know your trans. Will they want to be your best friend no but they will treat you alright.
As for your theory that you will get treated better based on how well you pass I would say is true. But really society as whole treats attractive people differently than it does unattractive people it sucks but it's true. So the more attractive of a woman you are will get you treated better even if they know your trans.
But even if you totally don't pass people normally won't mess with you. Well that's been my experience at least. But I don't see that many people trying to start a fight with someone is 6'2" and athletic. So it may just be me that doesn't have these problems with people trying to start something. 

[A]

Yeah. In general how people will regard and respect transsexuals is directly proportional to passability, and inversely proportional to age (which statistically comes with less passability anyway). That's just how it is. Even though it's morally wrong, to me it feels sort of natural that people would react that way. I guess the more people can see it as believable that you're a girl and always should have been (very dependent on age, amount of birth-sex typical socialization and passability), the nicer they'll be. The more they're able to see you as a man, the more they'll feel that what you're doing is wrong.

As for violence and disrespect... Seriously I'm with you on that. Never ever run into the slightest such thing. The two worst things I've run into were whispers and people showing with their body language that they're uncomfortable. I think it probably depends a lot on where you are. Dunno what precisely, but there's probably a correlation to be made that would reveal that some places are infinitely more dangerous to transsexuals.

And uh. Depends on your personality a lot, too, I guess. If you're a party person who just loves to be out at night and drink, you're a thousand times more at risk than if you tend to just relax at home alone or with one or two people, of course. But that goes for everyone (women mostly though), so it's not all that relevant regarding trans people specifically.

Edit:

But really society as whole treats attractive people differently than it does unattractive people it sucks but it's true.

Just want to add that regarding respect for a trans person, I don't think attractiveness is that much of a factor. I pass really well in every way (unless you make me undress, but that probably won't happen), voice and all, but I'm not really attractive.

I'm not especially thin, I don't really have much in terms of interesting curves, I don't have an especially attractive body, I have a sorta masculine face (which while it doesn't hinder my passability in any significant way does get in the way of being attractive), and all I have for breasts is a padded bra, which gives a pretty small result.

No one has ever hit on me, and I don't expect it to be an even remotely regular occurrence at all. But despite all that, because I pass, no one disrespects my being trans. Mostly because I pass. So yeah, passing is much, much more important than looking good. Now, if you neither pass nor look good, things are problematic, of course.

PS: I really admire your courage for going out as a girl despite your voice. If I had serious voice problems, I don't think I could ever work up the courage to see anyone at all, and I'd just rot in my corner. Congrats on not letting it bring you down.

[MaidofOrleans]

The more passable and attractive you are the better people will treat you. It's a sad fact of life but it's how it goes. Attractive people have it easier because they get easy good first impressions. Exactly why I chose to get FFS before going full time. I also dress feminine and show off my figure while hiding my perfections. It's all about knowing how to work it.

[noeleena]

Hi,

Looks are every thing , ...are they,  maybe in your county and  may be things are different where you are i dont know .

Im a  Kiwi  from down under, & no  total ....NO.... are looks every thing , im not a dresser or trans yet i have had my own detail to get through  facial wise masculine  body wise female hormones a mix of both  voice no one cares though a mix of male / female,  do i pass as a female not a show,

Yet im a member of some 5 groups ,soc, clubs with in a membership of over a 1000 people, on commitees people wont me around them. they all know my background they know me as a person first  second as a female / woman  3 rd a person they can trust & what would be the difference if i had or looked like a female what would it take,

Im accepted on the fact of who i am not how i look or dont, my  clothes regardless what i wear do not denote who i am,  , take my clothes off youll see a female though not a compleat one from birth,

yes i thought ill have to wear my female clothes to be accepted,  not so. i wear my overalls for work as a builder, 46 years,  still female & known as noeleena.you see clothes makeup hair & what ever else one  soposidly needs to look like a woman is not needed,

what you may find different is my  manerisms my demeaner how i interact with people what i am as a person , if you meet me  youd say oh yea a dresser, though certinlay not a good looking one for sure, infact nothing like a female or a woman, so quess what youd be so wrong very wrong , why. well ill leave that up to you,

you see some of us if you do your home work will find many women.  like myself  female yet  dont look at all like how a percived female should look like, let alone a woman.  go back to the 1860's look at a few pics & see the face's of our women  very masculine looking .

Sorry to disapoint you im not any thing like you would think i should be in my looks , yet im still just a female, who has a background thats different, thats all.

If i had based what i look like on the premiss of looks are every thing then my life would be over some 50 years ago. because i hated then how i looked and i still dont like how i look  now yet i have reached over 3 million people so had  my looks been = looks are every thing = to do what i have done then one needs to think about there must be something else going on. so the ? will be had i looked like a female as normal  would i have reached so many people , i dought it very much because then i would have been seen as normal .

What does it take to be a female === being one. born one what does it take to be a woman === to grow as one.

...noeleena...

[suzifrommd]

The more passable and attractive you are the better people will treat you. It's a sad fact of life but it's how it goes.

Judging from what I have seen, I think this is how a lot of people feel.  I notice some of the more passable trans girls tend to have positive experiences where some of those who are less fortunate share some of their negative stories. 

I've had the opposite experience. I know many non-passable trans women who are very satisfied with their transitions and are among the happiest ladies I know. A lot of the women I know IRL who pass well are less happy, perhaps because they're always concerned about being found out.

I'm much more comfortable in settings where people know I'm trans (though I love the way I'm treated when they just see me as a woman). But I'm not worried about outing myself with a casual reference to my history and I can make comments about my transition without giving myself away.

[Tatyana]

Yeah. In general how people will regard and respect transsexuals is directly proportional to passability, and inversely proportional to age (which statistically comes with less passability anyway). That's just how it is. Even though it's morally wrong, to me it feels sort of natural that people would react that way. I guess the more people can see it as believable that you're a girl and always should have been (very dependent on age, amount of birth-sex typical socialization and passability), the nicer they'll be. The more they're able to see you as a man, the more they'll feel that what you're doing is wrong.

As for violence and disrespect... Seriously I'm with you on that. Never ever run into the slightest such thing. The two worst things I've run into were whispers and people showing with their body language that they're uncomfortable. I think it probably depends a lot on where you are. Dunno what precisely, but there's probably a correlation to be made that would reveal that some places are infinitely more dangerous to transsexuals.

And uh. Depends on your personality a lot, too, I guess. If you're a party person who just loves to be out at night and drink, you're a thousand times more at risk than if you tend to just relax at home alone or with one or two people, of course. But that goes for everyone (women mostly though), so it's not all that relevant regarding trans people specifically.

Edit:
Just want to add that regarding respect for a trans person, I don't think attractiveness is that much of a factor. I pass really well in every way (unless you make me undress, but that probably won't happen), voice and all, but I'm not really attractive.

I'm not especially thin, I don't really have much in terms of interesting curves, I don't have an especially attractive body, I have a sorta masculine face (which while it doesn't hinder my passability in any significant way does get in the way of being attractive), and all I have for breasts is a padded bra, which gives a pretty small result.

No one has ever hit on me, and I don't expect it to be an even remotely regular occurrence at all. But despite all that, because I pass, no one disrespects my being trans. Mostly because I pass. So yeah, passing is much, much more important than looking good. Now, if you neither pass nor look good, things are problematic, of course.

PS: I really admire your courage for going out as a girl despite your voice. If I had serious voice problems, I don't think I could ever work up the courage to see anyone at all, and I'd just rot in my corner. Congrats on not letting it bring you down.

Yeah I really hate my voice.  VFS is definately in my future.  I get hit on quite a bit and it always freaks me out.  I think  It's probably a dangerous situation so I get away from it as fast as I can.  I don't like men anyway.

[Tatyana]

Hi,

Looks are every thing , ...are they,  maybe in your county and  may be things are different where you are i dont know .

Im a  Kiwi  from down under, & no  total ....NO.... are looks every thing , im not a dresser or trans yet i have had my own detail to get through  facial wise masculine  body wise female hormones a mix of both  voice no one cares though a mix of male / female,  do i pass as a female not a show,

Yet im a member of some 5 groups ,soc, clubs with in a membership of over a 1000 people, on commitees people wont me around them. they all know my background they know me as a person first  second as a female / woman  3 rd a person they can trust & what would be the difference if i had or looked like a female what would it take,

Im accepted on the fact of who i am not how i look or dont, my  clothes regardless what i wear do not denote who i am,  , take my clothes off youll see a female though not a compleat one from birth,

yes i thought ill have to wear my female clothes to be accepted,  not so. i wear my overalls for work as a builder, 46 years,  still female & known as noeleena.you see clothes makeup hair & what ever else one  soposidly needs to look like a woman is not needed,

what you may find different is my  manerisms my demeaner how i interact with people what i am as a person , if you meet me  youd say oh yea a dresser, though certinlay not a good looking one for sure, infact nothing like a female or a woman, so quess what youd be so wrong very wrong , why. well ill leave that up to you,

you see some of us if you do your home work will find many women.  like myself  female yet  dont look at all like how a percived female should look like, let alone a woman.  go back to the 1860's look at a few pics & see the face's of our women  very masculine looking .

Sorry to disapoint you im not any thing like you would think i should be in my looks , yet im still just a female, who has a background thats different, thats all.

If i had based what i look like on the premiss of looks are every thing then my life would be over some 50 years ago. because i hated then how i looked and i still dont like how i look  now yet i have reached over 3 million people so had  my looks been = looks are every thing = to do what i have done then one needs to think about there must be something else going on. so the ? will be had i looked like a female as normal  would i have reached so many people , i dought it very much because then i would have been seen as normal .

What does it take to be a female === being one. born one what does it take to be a woman === to grow as one.

...noeleena...

Here in the US one is really judged by how they look.  Especially women.