Yeson Voice Surgery Post-Op Thread

[abbyt89]

Hello everyone! Since we seem to have so many ladies here jetting off to Seoul for voice surgery, I figured why not make a thread where we can discuss our outcomes.

I had my surgery with Dr. Kim in August of 2013, after stumbling upon Jenny's video on youtube. After finding her thread here I read through every single page since she was fantastic about keeping everybody updated on her experience. Not long after that I headed to Seoul to have my surgery.

Now that I am at 8 months post-op I want to share some of my long-term opinions on the surgery. But first of all, here's some info on my surgery:

Dr. Kim tied up roughly 1/3 of my vocal folds and resulted in the following increase:

Normal voice before: 110hz
Elevated voice before: 170hz

Normal voice after: 185hz
Elevated voice after: 215hz

And here are some voice clips to show how my voice has progressed since having the surgery.

Pre-op (110hz): http://vocaroo.com/i/s0Mh8FiVvP6Z

Pre-op elevated (170hz): http://vocaroo.com/i/s164D0mjwyFf (Note about this one, I was kind of nervous using my voice so in this recording I'm not doing anything with my resonance)

One month post (170hz): http://vocaroo.com/i/s11doZOOoTAp

Two months post (173hz): http://vocaroo.com/i/s0w3k3uZIvsK

Six months post (176hz): http://vocaroo.com/i/s1RFtXpcpKeL

Seven months post (175hz): http://vocaroo.com/i/s1q0wj82CtXb

Eight months post (185hz): http://vocaroo.com/i/s0Po0zNPVtZg


My thoughts:

I saw basically all of the pitch increase by about 3 months post-op, but my resonance continued to improve until recently. I'm really happy with how the resonance has changed, and it definitely is way better than I expected it would be. I'm mostly happy with the pitch, I sort of wish it was a little bit more in the feminine range (mine is closer to gender neutral than feminine) but I did see just about the average gain so I'm not complaining. I do wonder if I would have benefited from having 1/2 of my folds tied up though - I was told my starting pitch was about 125hz but after the surgery when I looked at the recording myself I noticed it was only 110hz pre-op. So really I needed a bit more than the average to have a voice in the feminine range. I do feel like a voice that's on the lower end fits me well, and I told myself going into this that I would rather end up with a voice too low than too high.

The only thing I am disappointed about is my higher range/singing voice. Unfortunately I seem to have lost a decent amount of my higher range. Well not entirely because I can still hit the notes but the quality of my voice when trying to do that is pretty awful. I don't know what could be the cause of it, but I'm thinking about maybe having a doctor (anyone know what kind?) that deals with that kind of stuff to have it checked out. I'd be curious if Jenny or Sarah or anybody else has noticed this as well.

So anyway, this is where I am now with my voice. I do look forward to seeing what it sounds like in the future, but I have a pretty good feeling I'm not really going to see any changes from here. I'm excited to hear from all the other post-op ladies here, I can't believe how many of us there are now!

[AmyBerlin]

Dear Abby,

The only thing I am disappointed about is my higher range/singing voice. Unfortunately I seem to have lost a decent amount of my higher range. Well not entirely because I can still hit the notes but the quality of my voice when trying to do that is pretty awful. I don't know what could be the cause of it, but I'm thinking about maybe having a doctor (anyone know what kind?) that deals with that kind of stuff to have it checked out.

you should go to an ENT specializing in voice. They're also called phoniatrists. In larger cities that have a theatre and/or opera house, you should be able to find at least one.

As I'm singing myself, and headed for Yeson in two weeks, I'd be interested in knowing what range you're referring to in which your voice quality has deteriorated because of the surgery. Is it the extreme top end? Jenny reported in one post, maybe 3 months post-surgically, that she had to use a different approach for hitting the top notes (I think she called it "squeaky voice" initially). Maybe she can give you a few pointers. Another alternative that I could envision is taking a few singing lessons from a woman teacher. That's fairly inexpensive (private singing lessons here go for about $35-50, I don't know how it is where you live) and should easily give you an idea what you could do to improve your singing voice. After all, you're relearning how to speak and sing on brand new equipment.

Regards,

Amy

[Laurelin]

Hi Abby,
Your final voice is totally awesome! just a couple of questions here

1-)there isnt any resonance modification in your pre-op elevated voice so it makes me curious, have you done any resonance work before your surgery? I am such a failure when it comes to resonance so it makes me wonder

2-)are you doing any resonance modification in your post op voice or is it just an effortless and natural voice as you have stated in the other thread

[AmyBerlin]

Dear Abby,

As of now my voice starts to crack at around G4.

Now that's a clue. That's the chest/head voice break carried over from your old voice. (This depends largely on windpipe length, not on vocal cord mass, so it hasn't changed a whole lot during surgery.) Do try and go higher than that in one of the following ways:

• softly,
• in a breathy voice,
• with a loose jaw,
• with lots of twang, as if you were imitating Mickey Mouse,

One of those should carry you higher than that. It's hard to believe that this should be your physical limit.

Greetings,

Amy

Note to anjaq: this appears to be just what you speculated could happen: the feeling of being locked into quite a narrow space between bottom end and the old break.

[Jennygirl]

The mid-high range really had improved for me through 8-10months post op, but it seems to be leveling off for me.

Abby- I am seeing a voice specialized otolaryngologist tomorrow to see if vocal tremor might have anything to do with the upper range thing you're talking about. I do feel some of what I think you are describing, but maybe not to the same degree. I do feel that around 8 mo this I was having that feeling more than I am now- so you may still be healing.

I do notice that I don't have the upper range extension like that of an average cis female.. That is going to be the main thing I want this doctor to diagnose.. So I will have more info tomorrow, and I'll be sure to post back here with it I am also going to have her confirm the vocal tremor and (if it's a positive) inquire about another botox injection. I am now approaching 12 months post op

[Boca.Lisa]

I feel like such a stalker but I am really interested. 18 days post op now and haven't said a word. I'm starting to get anxious about what my voice will sound like.

[abbyt89]

Dear Abby,

Now that's a clue. That's the chest/head voice break carried over from your old voice. (This depends largely on windpipe length, not on vocal cord mass, so it hasn't changed a whole lot during surgery.) Do try and go higher than that in one of the following ways:

• softly,
• in a breathy voice,
• with a loose jaw,
• with lots of twang, as if you were imitating Mickey Mouse,

One of those should carry you higher than that. It's hard to believe that this should be your physical limit.

Greetings,

Amy

Note to anjaq: this appears to be just what you speculated could happen: the feeling of being locked into quite a narrow space between bottom end and the old break.

Amy,

Wow, just those few tips helped me a lot! It seems  I can reach about a D5 before starting to really crack but that's only when I'm being really breathy.

The mid-high range really had improved for me through 8-10months post op, but it seems to be leveling off for me.

Abby- I am seeing a voice specialized otolaryngologist tomorrow to see if vocal tremor might have anything to do with the upper range thing you're talking about. I do feel some of what I think you are describing, but maybe not to the same degree. I do feel that around 8 mo this I was having that feeling more than I am now- so you may still be healing.

I do notice that I don't have the upper range extension like that of an average cis female.. That is going to be the main thing I want this doctor to diagnose.. So I will have more info tomorrow, and I'll be sure to post back here with it I am also going to have her confirm the vocal tremor and (if it's a positive) inquire about another botox injection. I am now approaching 12 months post op

Oh wow I am totally interested in hearing what they have to say! Keep us updated. I noticed I don't have the upper range of a cis woman either but I never had close to one before so it wasn't something I expected to improve from the surgery.

I feel like such a stalker but I am really interested. 18 days post op now and haven't said a word. I'm starting to get anxious about what my voice will sound like.

You still haven't said a word in 18 days? That's impressive but also I think a bit unnecessary. Were you instructed to wait that long or are you just doing it in hopes that it will allow the voice to heal better? I would double check with Dr. Kim because I think at some point your vocal folds will need to be exercised a bit.

[Boca.Lisa]

Hi Abby,

I thought Dr. Kim and Jessie both said that while I could say 1 or 2 words after the week, that the less I said the better. I also had botox and it seems that most of the people who have tried talking within the first 30 days struggled. So, I havent spoken.

I must say, I am dying to hear my voice but dont want to damage anything and im a bit worried i'll be disappointed.

Lisa

[abbyt89]

Oh that's right, I totally forgot about the botox thing sorry!

As for your voice, please try not to worry about it, although it's easier said than done.

One thing to keep in mind though is to try not to be disappointed about how the voice is right away. It takes a long time to heal and I don't think I was truly happy with my voice until about 6 months post op.

[abbyt89]

Btw here is a recent update of me doing the rainbow passage. I've added the before video too so you can compare it to my original voice.

[AmyBerlin]

Dear Abby,

Wow, just those few tips helped me a lot! It seems  I can reach about a D5 before starting to really crack but that's only when I'm being really breathy.

good to hear, glad I could help! Just keep practicing that range a bit at a time until it settles and until you've built the "muscle memory" and coordination to be able to hit these notes at volume and without additional breath. It takes a little experimentation, but it shouldn't ever feel unpleasant. I'm sure you can make it.

Amy

[Jennygirl]

Hi Abby,

I thought Dr. Kim and Jessie both said that while I could say 1 or 2 words after the week, that the less I said the better. I also had botox and it seems that most of the people who have tried talking within the first 30 days struggled. So, I havent spoken.

I must say, I am dying to hear my voice but dont want to damage anything and im a bit worried i'll be disappointed.

Lisa

You're probably saving yourself a lot of healing time, I'd say keep it up until the month mark if you can

The amount of healing and adjustment that has to take place is kind of nuts. Here is my comparison from 1 week to 11 months of recovery:

Oh wow I am totally interested in hearing what they have to say! Keep us updated. I noticed I don't have the upper range of a cis woman either but I never had close to one before so it wasn't something I expected to improve from the surgery.

She said I do NOT have a vocal tremor, and that likely the upper range difference to cis is likely because the muscle groups in my voicebox are built for bigger vocal cords. So there you have it I have a feeling that upper range will continue to improve slightly as years go by, but seeing how low my voice was pre-op I'm not at all unsatisfied. I've managed to go from C5 to ~G5 on the high end which is noteworthy.

[anjaq]

Note to anjaq: this appears to be just what you speculated could happen: the feeling of being locked into quite a narrow space between bottom end and the old break.

Yes it totally sounds like that. It can cause a monotonous voice a bit as the higher parts are locked out. I think what ma yhelp is to try and go a lot higher to go beyond that break. Also that lip flutter exercise was what really helped me to get over that break. Glissando (Sirens) with lip flutter. I would be curious thouch, Abby, if you could go a lot higher than that point before surgery - could you speak or sing in the head voice(which is basically what this is)? Keep us posted about you progess about this. I think you should be able to go quite a bit higher than that if ou manage to turn on the head voice. A G4 is not very high - I think you should probably be able to go at least up to C5 or D5. This is well within the normal range even for lower voices, right? I presently can squeeze out a G5 - thats not needed though. But I would hate to losse a big chunk of that range.

[anjaq]

Just wanted to add after listening to all the recordings - the most striking difference I see is in the absence of the low overtones (or undertones?) that are accompanying the speech. The voice is somehow clearer, lighter and that makes it much more feminine even if the pitch in the pre-op elevated state is the same as in many of the post op recordings.

[Jennygirl]

Just wanted to add after listening to all the recordings - the most striking difference I see is in the absence of the low overtones (or undertones?) that are accompanying the speech. The voice is somehow clearer, lighter and that makes it much more feminine even if the pitch in the pre-op elevated state is the same as in many of the post op recordings.

After seeing an otolaryngologist here in LA, she speculated this was due to the gap present near the commissure when phonating lower tones. She said it was quite possibly intentional on Dr. Kim's part and probably feminizes the voice overall. The tradeoff is you sacrifice some of the "brightness" of the voice at lower tones... but as you pointed out in your comment... who really cares? That's the part we are hoping to get rid of

[anjaq]

Hmm - it may indeed be so that this is an effect. If that is the same with Abby as with you. Just a picture from a ENT with his camera will clarify that - I must say when I had that gap it was s - I had less of these lower undertones, so really it is a possibility, but my phoniater and speech therapist told me it is not that good to have it and we are training to get rid of it actually and it is better for the voice as it strains less easily. Dr Kim also wrote me that I need to get rid of that gap before I should consider surgery with him as it would hinder the success of the surgery, possibly enough to have a dissatisfactory result. So I am not sure it is intentional... I think the low undertones simply disappear as the vocal chords are shorter.

[teeg]

That's an incredible difference from before and after.

Congrats!

[Gigi_J]

Hi Abby,

I've read of your past threads and this one was an especially good one showing the changes to your voice over the months...really am blown away by your improvement..it's amazing how initially the first recordings done relatively soon after the procedure sound amazing..until you hear your more recent ones and they get better still. Hope I get the same improvement when I undergo the surgery in mid-June. I am a little concerned about what you say about your upper range post-op though...I love to sing and I'd come to the conclusion that given enough healing time, the power in our voices when in the upper range will return..and of course give us some extra upper range too that we couldn't hit before. Maybe in another couple of months, you'll be in a better position to be able to comment on this in your case. Also saw your recent video showing off your FFS and voice surgery and you couldn't look happier...so happy for you!

After seeing an otolaryngologist here in LA, she speculated this was due to the gap present near the commissure when phonating lower tones. She said it was quite possibly intentional on Dr. Kim's part and probably feminizes the voice overall. The tradeoff is you sacrifice some of the "brightness" of the voice at lower tones... but as you pointed out in your comment... who really cares? That's the part we are hoping to get rid of

Hi Jenny,

If you get a moment, could you elaborate on this statement you made? I don't quite understand it but seems quite interesting!

Thanks,

Gigi

[Jennygirl]

Hi Jenny,

If you get a moment, could you elaborate on this statement you made? I don't quite understand it but seems quite interesting!

Thanks,

Gigi

Basically my vocal cords have a gap near where they come together as I try to make a low note. She thought this contributed to the softness of my voice no matter what frequency I was currently speaking at.

My voice used to have quite a bite to its sound. Now it is very soft/round and quite the opposite.

Hopefully that helps to explain

[Gigi_J]

Basically my vocal cords have a gap near where they come together as I try to make a low note. She thought this contributed to the softness of my voice no matter what frequency I was currently speaking at.

My voice used to have quite a bite to its sound. Now it is very soft/round and quite the opposite.

Hopefully that helps to explain

Ahhh, I feel dim now...makes total sense now, thanks Jenny! I'm the same btw...when I don't put any effort feminising my voice to soften it, my voice has quite a 'bite' too

Btw...quick question: Lately I've been trying to get my voice back into good shape in terms of (upper) range with regular singing exercises after considerable time without doing them and not singing very much. My range is getting better again top end...but do you think this is a benefit or do u think it's more important to have a good period of vocal rest prior to the procedure? I'll ask Jessie about her thoughts too but wondered what you gals thought.

Thanks,

Gigi