*TRIGGER WARNING* “Not Born That Way”

[Blue Senpai]

"Not Born That Way"
By KATE WILLSON
Posted: Jul 02, 2014

UNITED STATES — The fight over "curing" homosexuality is the front lines of upcoming gay-rights battles.

More: http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-22761-%E2%80%9Cnot_born_that_way%E2%80%9D.html

-----------
Due to the sensitive nature of this topic, caution when reading this and writing your thoughts out in this thread.

[Eris]

I think the real problem here is an organised religion that thinks it knows best...

[PoeticHeart]

I wonder when this madness will end.

[awilliams1701]

Organized religion is responsible for so many deaths over the centuries all in the name of what you think your god wants over a twisted view of how you interpret translated copies of copies, etc.. Of something written by a man who may or may not have imposed his own agenda. Its ok to have faith and beliefs, but keeping an open mind is far more important. Problem is that many super religious people don't.

I think the real problem here is an organised religion that thinks it knows best...

[Eris]

Did you know that the whole "suffer not a witch to live" thing was just a mistranslation? Originally the word translated to "Witch" was a term used to denote a poisoner of either gender...

[alabamagirl]

I didn't read the article, but I've certainly heard it all before when it comes to "curing" LGBT people...

*sigh*

I'm certain the vast majority of these people are simply using this to make their bigotry appear more valid, but for those who legitimately think we can be cured (not that they would be reading this post), I've already tried it. I lived as my birth gender and made every attempt to fit it and like it that I possibly could. I did this for over twenty years. All it ever resulted in was being constantly depressed and miserable. It crippled my ability to form friendships and interact with others, because I couldn't love myself, so therefore I couldn't love others. It made me bitter and angry that I had to live that way. I was not the kind of person anyone would want to be friends with.

The cure isn't running away from your problems and pretending they don't exist. It isn't forsaking everything you feel to fit into a role others have made for you. The cure is being yourself. Expressing yourself and living how you feel. Being true to you.

Is it so wrong, so hard to understand that we simply want to be ourselves? Is it so wrong that we just want to love who we love?

[Blue Senpai]

I didn't read the article, but I've certainly heard it all before when it comes to "curing" LGBT people...

*sigh*

I'm certain the vast majority of these people are simply using this to make their bigotry appear more valid, but for those who legitimately think we can be cured (not that they would be reading this post), I've already tried it. I lived as my birth gender and made every attempt to fit it and like it that I possibly could. I did this for over twenty years. All it ever resulted in was being constantly depressed and miserable. It crippled my ability to form friendships and interact with others, because I couldn't love myself, so therefore I couldn't love others. It made me bitter and angry that I had to live that way. I was not the kind of person anyone would want to be friends with.

The cure isn't running away from your problems and pretending they don't exist. It isn't forsaking everything you feel to fit into a role others have made for you. The cure is being yourself. Expressing yourself and living how you feel. Being true to you.

Is it so wrong, so hard to understand that we simply want to be ourselves? Is it so wrong that we just want to love who we love?

Apparently it is a big problem because living the lives that we want to live and loving who we want somehow affects their lives, no matter how far away we are from their proximity. With that logic, my life somehow affects them no matter if I lived in Australia, South America or even Antarctica. I don't bother anyone and I'm sure most of us have no reason to do so, it's just conservatives needing to at least come to terms with it, make peace with it or at least tolerate it.

[Tessa James]

Reading the article it is easy to see how conflicted and fearful parents get the "cure" nonsense about being gay conflated with being transgender.  No doubt campaigns to "pray away the gay" will be supplemented by "pray away the transgender."  In a strange but not uncommon twist one of the "cure" advocates says he "welcomes being a minority."  It is amazing how people like that can spin their BS to appear like they are the persecuted victims but, it is part of many doctrinaire ideologies. 

[Jess42]

The only thing that I will say is God created me, not the church or any other organized religion. So really they don't need to fix me 'cause I am not broken and all the hell and persecution I go through is mainly because of them. I'm sure there is a purpose why and it may very well be to raise above the man made religions. It's funny. Most religions believe God doesn't make mistakes but why do they think there is something wrong with us? Big Paradox and one that I have yet had anyone religious other than those that are in the same boat as me and just want to believe, give me any kind of answer that made since.

Sorry, like Pikachu I didn't read the article. I am in too good of a mood right now to be brought down by ignorance and hate and really small minds but I can just imagine and have heard it all anyway at one time or another. Not only about LGBT but also Native Americans and even other sects of Christiantiy that are more accepting.

PS. If they really want to fix me and all the other Ts, why don't they pray like crazy that we all wake up in the morning as our preffered gender? If they want to fix the LGBs why don't they pray for God to give themselves acceptance of all people and see that they do not need fixing. But especially the Ts and waking up in the morning as our preffed gender. If there is power in prayer and all of those prayed for both, the world may be a much happier and acceptable place.

Sorry Blue Senpai, I followed your rule and did take caution in writing this thread and hope it doesn't offend anyone or... go against your wishes. I didn't cuss so that is a plus.

[Sylvie]

I think the real problem here is an organised religion that thinks it knows best...

I agree. I went to the website of the church mentioned to find out which Lutheran body the church belongs to, because the one I belong to (the ELCA) is very affirming, not only in the congregation but in the pulpit as well. Their website was unusually vague with regard to their association, and then I saw this: "There are many people who use the Lutheran name and ascribe to it a lot of different values." Ahhhh. Gotcha. So yeah. You hit the nail on the head, Falconer! An organized religion thinking it knows best... yep.

*sigh*

[Carrie Liz]

The APA has determined that any and all reparative therapies that try to change someone's gender identity and expression to become more congruent with their birth sex are not only ineffectual, but possibly harmful. There's been studies where rates of attempted suicide, depression, anxiety, substance abuse, and self-loathing got worse after the attempted reparative therapy ended.  WAPTH actually stated that they officially consider such attempts at changing one's gender identity or expression unethical in their latest Standards of Care.

Case closed.

The experience and data from people who have been treating trans patients for 50+ years, and already tried and studied the outcomes of every possible treatment option, is the final word on the subject. Why does our media keep humoring these half-assed bulls*** opinions from armchair-quarterback religious bigots who've probably never even met a trans person in real life and yet they think that somehow they know better than everyone else how they should live their lives?

[Shana-chan]

I only read the first few sentences at the beginning as well as the last couple of sentences at the bottom that I noticed mention transgender. Trust me, you're probably better off not reading this garbage. 

I'll only say this, shame that people like the one in that article had to feel that they were sinning and as a result run and hide from the true them and so on.

[Michelle-G]

Wow, this is amazing - and disturbing. This article (and the links in it) show how far anti-LGBTQ conservatives, specifically religious conservatives, will go to deny science and use lies to promote their own agenda.

The article quotes Dr. Michelle Cretella of the American College of Pediatricians, a small conservative association (an understatement). Their website has plenty of disinformation that appeals to frustrated parents, but instead of giving facts it just keeps these parents in the dark. That will undoubtedly just make things much harder for them as their children grow up and eventually distance themselves from a non-accepting family.

They take issue with the American Academy of Pediatrics (a real medical association) for their modern view of dealing with LGBTQ youth and their position that the mental health issues LGBTQ youth experience is due to social stigmatization of homophobia and heterosexism. These people say there is no evidence for this position (there's TONS of evidence). Incredible!

And how about this? They quote Denise Shick (whose main qualification seems to be her own unwillingness to accept her father's transgender experience) as listing these transgender risk factors: a distant father and "smothering" mother. Perfectionist tendencies. A history of sexual abuse or watching pornography. Masturbating while dressed in women's clothes. She says men who identify as women should stop cross-dressing, refrain from fantasizing about dressing as women, and avoid television shows that parade women in revealing clothes and commercials for women's underwear.

Funny, I never did any of those things and my parents were terrific! I guess I must not really be transgender, since I don't fit the profile.

[alabamagirl]

...And how about this? They quote Denise Shick (whose main qualification seems to be her own unwillingness to accept her father's transgender experience) as listing these transgender risk factors: a distant father and "smothering" mother. Perfectionist tendencies. A history of sexual abuse or watching pornography. Masturbating while dressed in women's clothes. She says men who identify as women should stop cross-dressing, refrain from fantasizing about dressing as women, and avoid television shows that parade women in revealing clothes and commercials for women's underwear.

Funny, I never did any of those things and my parents were terrific! I guess I must not really be transgender, since I don't fit the profile.

Well, let's see... I had a distant father because I was too feminine for his liking. I certainly wasn't "smothered" by my mother. She wasn't much more engaged than he was.

Perfectionist tendencies? I don't consider myself a perfectionist, but I think it's funny that someone considers this a serious character flaw. Oh, how terrible! A perfectionist! D:

The only sexual abuse I've suffered was during a very toxic relationship when I was well into adulthood and already accepting of my transgenderism. And no, I don't see how it was a factor in it at all. I'm rather insulted that she's basically saying my sexual abuse was somehow because of being trans*. What a baseless and very victim-blamey assertion.

And watching pornography? You mean like 99% of the population does/has at some point? What rock does this girl live under?

Never masturbated while dressed in women's clothes. The few times I've worn them, they brought me a sense of calm and peace, not arousal.

Um... I'm really not a fan of skimpy clothes, and commercials about women's underwear bore me just as much as any other commercial.

[VeryGnawty]

Articles like this are a perfect demonstration of why gay conversion therapy is NOT scientific.  You have "former" homosexuals (by the way, I don't believe they are no longer homosexual by any stretch of the imagination) who say that they still struggle with the "affliction" of same-sex attraction.  So.....why is it an affliction?  Do they personally feel that it is destructive to their lives, or do they just think homosexuals are bad because their pastor told them that Jeebus said it is bad?

And then that "former" lesbian who talks about how she has embraced her femininity and about how she used to hate men.  I'm sorry, but choosing not to have relations to a man doesn't make you a lesbian.  You might as well just come out and admit that you were never a homosexual in the first place, and that you choose only to have relations with woman because you were afraid that relationships with men weren't a worthy pursuit in the first place.  It is intellectually dishonest to pretend that you are or were truly homosexual if your decision to pursue women was based on severe emotional and mental issues towards men.

[Carrie Liz]

Also, I feel very strongly about this because I did go through a VERY significant Christian phase of denial, where I tried to pray away my trans desires. For about 5 years, I was a "success" story. I renounced my trans desires, prayed to be cured of them, and for years reported that I was now over it, that God had cured me. And this is what any survey of "ex-gay" therapy measures... the immediate post-therapy outcome, in which most people will indeed believe themselves cured, and feel like their lives are headed in a different direction, and report themselves to be successes. The sheer act of admitting that they have these desires at all, and laying them before God, is a HUGE mental relief when you do it for the first time. So it's easy to believe that you really are cured.

The thing is, though, it doesn't last. I believed myself cured, and yet all I was doing was basically denying that the thoughts even existed when they came back. Instead of feeling the dysphoria, I actively repressed it every time it came up. Every time gender-dysphoric thoughts hit my mind, I'd pray to God to take the desire away from me, to "take the temptation of the devil out of my head"... EVERY single time it came back up, for 5+ years. In the short term it helps you cope. But over the long term, it starts building resentment. You start to hate yourself for it. You start to get upset, asking God "why, why am I still having these thoughts? Why can't I just be freed from this? Why can't I be a good Christian like everyone else?" And yet time and time and time again, no matter how much you pray, it always keeps coming back. And the exhaustion at fighting it all the time grows, and the self-hatred for not succeeding in getting over it grows. It eats you alive after time. You feel like a failure, and feel like you're living a lie. You become anxious and socially isolated because you're so ashamed of yourself. And the only question becomes whether you embrace your "sinful" imperfect self, or whether you keep fighting it and denying it to your own destruction.

[Del]

Ephesians 4: 11-14
[11] And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
[12] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
[13] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
[14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
[15] But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

The main problem is that too many are licensed and ordained of men when not truly chosen, called, taught, licensed and ordained and sent forth by the Holy Ghost. That is also why there are so many doctrines and heresies and so little who preach the rightly divided word of truth.

Verses 13-15 make it clear what pastors should be doing. Preaching the rightly divided word of truth as brought forth by the Spirit.

When ministers do such as scripture above shows those who come being led of the Spirit shall repent and shall learn the truth. Babes in Christ shall grow unto maturity in the Lord and all shall be of one Spirit believing, speaking and sharing the same thing. Healings, miracles, and even growing in faith are all the work of the Spirit of God. Men need to quit trying to steal his glory as he will share his glory with no man.

These clowns are not supposed to be writing books and having television shows and getting rich while the honest working man or woman gets poorer and poorer. They should not be starting foolish movements that have a fake or man made cure for whatever will make them popular or rich. They need to teach and preach the truth.

Tend the flock and teach the flock and feed the flock and be willing to have a small congregation that is truly saved and work for a living.

Too many forget that to "go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature" means in the workplace as well.

Most should just quit their foolishness done in the Lord's name and get a job.

May God bless.

[Tessa James]

I once lived with my family on the edge of so called "Happy Valley" where this piece originates and even then it was a socially conservative enclave.  It doesn't seem to faze the ideologies to have the pray away the gay leaders come out as now married gay men.  The pain they inflict on their own children is also rationalized as for their own good.  My daughter was a target of the christians at Happy Valley public school as I was and remain an outspoken queer humanist.  They would invite her to every possible event and she now sees some those old friends locked in conservative marriages and families with little sense of their own identities. 

I believe this is an expected and cynical abuse of americans general squeamishness about sexuality.  Religious edicts focused on sexuality are a hallmark of ham-handed attempts at cultural control.  My fundamentalist christian brothers ask me about demonic possession and cannot accept their own gay sons unless they are celibate.  Good luck.  Preaching sexual abstinence is akin to saying food abstinence is the way to treat bulimia, starvation or obesity.  Enjoy the banquet spread before you!

[Lukoshkin]

What's wrong?! He is an adult and can choose for himself to go to Church to fight with "the disease", to go to a nightclub, or smth else. It is better to have many ways open and have a chance to choose. May be, someone regrets to his/her sexual orientation and need's this information. Restrictions are the beginning of problems, not the opportunities.

[traci_k]

Conversion Therapy must end. Leelah Alcorn didn't have an option, she was forced to see these Christian counselors(?) and denied real help. But don't confuse these people with facts, most believe the world is 6,000 years old also.

RIP