Discrimination in the MMA community?

[Amato]

In the recent year I've started seriously getting into the Mixed Martial Arts scene. I started watching a couple of MMA news sites lately to find that a lot of people in the MMA business (and especially the fans) seem to have extremely transphobic and misogynistic attitudes. Fallon Fox just can't seem to catch a break, and I've had to read some disgusting articles and comments about her being a man who just "switched teams" so "he" could beat on women.

I don't want to stop hanging around MMA communities because I really like the sport itself, but I've had to cut myself out of various online MMA communities because I'm just sick of being the only person who isn't a frickin bigot. I've had some nasty arguments with people on these sites and it just leaves me really disheartened and bitter. A lot of these people keep saying dumb crap like they support LGBT rights and then willfully misgender Fox and say 'once a man, always a man' garbage.

Does anyone know of any MMA sites/communities that are more accepting and tolerant? I've found a couple voices in the community that are but they are very few...

[Shantel]

That can be expected from the testosterone loaded Neanderthal and Deliverance types you will find frequenting MMA sites, it's too bad too, just consider the source and ignore them. I'm crazy about Rhonda Rhousy, she's hard core!

[Amato]

I like how she fights, but after the things she said about Fallon Fox I got turned off and stopped watching her fights. She seems to be educating herself and coming around, but I don't think she ever publicly apologized for some of the things she said. I mean she kinda gave a non apology if I remember right...

Either way...It's true, I guess I shouldn't have high expectations for the MMA scene, but it's still frustrating to deal with this sorta thing.

[amber roskamp]

All sports are going to be pretty bigoted, think about the jocks from your school and how they treated gay/ trans people. that has been going on for a really long time. The people that were once jocks are just fans now and many haven't really changed their views. and MMA is also where you find the most brutish guys out there. its a sport that is full of meat heads and bros.

Women's sports and their fan base are more open at least when it comes to their sexual orientation, but when  your trans, they go all rad fem on you, and try to tell us that we aren't women and try to make us play with guys or start a new league.

I am unaware of any site that would be good for you.

[Amato]

All sports are going to be pretty bigoted, think about the jocks from your school and how they treated gay/ trans people. that has been going on for a really long time. The people that were once jocks are just fans now and many haven't really changed their views. and MMA is also where you find the most brutish guys out there. its a sport that is full of meat heads and bros.

Women's sports and their fan base are more open at least when it comes to their sexual orientation, but when  your trans, they go all rad fem on you, and try to tell us that we aren't women and try to make us play with guys or start a new league.

I am unaware of any site that would be good for you.

When I first started hanging around the MMA communities I tried to go in with an open mind, but I'll admit I did expect to meet a bunch of stupid meat-head jock types. The crappy thing is you're right there are a lot of bigoted highschool bro types hangin around those places. Which is such a let down. Dang...

I've seen people demand there be a transgender league so trans people can play separately from cis people. Some have good intentions and some don't, but it's so stupid either way.

[Shantel]

When I first started hanging around the MMA communities I tried to go in with an open mind, but I'll admit I did expect to meet a bunch of stupid meat-head jock types. The crappy thing is you're right there are a lot of bigoted highschool bro types hangin around those places. Which is such a let down. Dang...

I've seen people demand there be a transgender league so trans people can play separately from cis people. Some have good intentions and some don't, but it's so stupid either way.

It really is especially when they argue that trans women having formerly been men have an advantage over cis female MMA fighters because any male born person on estrogen with low T numbers loses a lot of muscle mass and strength. Going back to Ronda Rousey, I'd put my money her over Fallon Fox in a contest any day!

[Amato]

It really is especially when they argue that trans women having formerly been men have an advantage over cis female MMA fighters because any male born person on estrogen with low T numbers loses a lot of muscle mass and strength. Going back to Ronda Rousey, I'd put my money her over Fallon Fox in a contest any day!

I know, their arguments dont stand up at all. Do they really think the experts haven't checked Fallon Fox to make sure she didn't have an advantage, considering how strict they are about everything? And I'd love to see a fight between Ronda and Fallon. I think it'd be a close fight.

[amber roskamp]

I remember reading about chloe johnsson( I believe that is her name), the girl that got banned from cross fit for being trans. Many people pointed out things like the Olympic standard lets trans women play after x amount of months on hormones and if they have srs. If the Olympic standard doesn't think its an advantage then it probably isn't.

[Shantel]

I know, their arguments dont stand up at all. Do they really think the experts haven't checked Fallon Fox to make sure she didn't have an advantage, considering how strict they are about everything? And I'd love to see a fight between Ronda and Fallon. I think it'd be a close fight.

Ronda gets one of those god-awful arm breaking locks on them and it's all over, my money would be on her!

[Shantel]

I remember reading about chloe johnsson( I believe that is her name), the girl that got banned from cross fit for being trans. Many people pointed out things like the Olympic standard lets trans women play after x amount of months on hormones and if they have srs. If the Olympic standard doesn't think its an advantage then it probably isn't.

Was that the mountain biker?

[FTMax]

I've been doing martial arts for most of my life, and would continue to do so if I didn't feel so uncomfortable being touched due to dysphoria. I think it's really just about the climate and culture of the sport at the moment, but it's constantly evolving. Just a few years ago, you didn't have out gay or lesbian athletes. Now, at least on the women's side of MMA, it's very commonplace and not remotely seen as a big deal. Now that trans visibility in extended pop culture is greater, I think people will start to get a little more educated whether they want to or not.

Just remember, in 2011, UFC President Dana White said that women will never fight in the UFC 

IMO - it will take a transman getting into the octagon with a cisguy and knocking him out to make people reconsider their opinions.

[Shantel]

I've been doing martial arts for most of my life, and would continue to do so if I didn't feel so uncomfortable being touched due to dysphoria. I think it's really just about the climate and culture of the sport at the moment, but it's constantly evolving. Just a few years ago, you didn't have out gay or lesbian athletes. Now, at least on the women's side of MMA, it's very commonplace and not remotely seen as a big deal. Now that trans visibility in extended pop culture is greater, I think people will start to get a little more educated whether they want to or not.

Just remember, in 2011, UFC President Dana White said that women will never fight in the UFC 

IMO - it will take a transman getting into the octagon with a cisguy and knocking him out to make people reconsider their opinions.

I recall that comment, and yes I've seen more than a few trans guys in weight rooms that could probably knock out a whole lot of cis guys.

[whatismylife]

I don't think she ever publicly apologized for some of the things she said. I mean she kinda gave a non apology if I remember right...

the fact that she even gave a non apology astounds me.  i thought she was full blooded full on transphobic.  link?

I know, their arguments dont stand up at all. Do they really think the experts haven't checked Fallon Fox to make sure she didn't have an advantage, considering how strict they are about everything? And I'd love to see a fight between Ronda and Fallon. I think it'd be a close fight.

considering that fallon fox is not even that great to begin with, and that ronda regularly spars with cis-male professional fighters 50+lbs heavier than her and regularly tosses them around, i think it might be a close fight if fallon fox was given an actual sword and ronda was unarmed.

IMO - it will take a transman getting into the octagon with a cisguy and knocking him out to make people reconsider their opinions.

but then the transphobics will complain the transguy was on PEDs cuz of HRT.  i honestly don't know what it takes for those idiots to even reconsider their opinions.

[LittleBoyBear]

I belong to two Martial Arts schools in Chicago and both have been really cool about me being trans. Not specifically MMA, but I do a mixed art at one place and BJJ at the other. Anyway, I dislike many of the things you mentioned about the more public MMA issues. They are behind the times as far as tolerence and could use some research. And Rousey's bad sportsmanship pisses me off, period. I don't know of any sites that have been cool, but I have competed in BJJ under an association that was very open to discussing me transitioning, and competing as a Male in a few years. So, if you want info on them, or are interested in whatever, you can message me. I don't want to be too open about where I am in a public forum.
-Bear

[FTMax]

I've read arguments for inclusion of MtF's in women's competitive sport (both proponents & opponents of inclusion), and am sympathetic to both sides.  Culturally, it seems important for inclusion.  Biologically though....I can't help but wonder if a person flooded with testosterone from puberty through early adulthood (or longer for us late-starters/transition-slowpokes) doesn't retain some physical/competitive advantages even after some years of "contra-gender hormone therapy."  [I don't know if there's been any sort of longitudinal studies that could address that question.]

MTFs have significantly less muscle strength and bone density and a higher fat mass than cisgender men, making their physical makeup much more similar to cisgender women even if their frame size is larger. That's what estrogen does. Especially if the person in question has had surgery to remove hormone producing organs like the testicles or ovaries - a MTF would likely have less testosterone than a cisgender woman.

Frame size means nothing in terms of athletic ability, and provided that they're getting the proper hormone levels, there is no advantage or disadvantage biologically. The only possible thing that could truly be argued is height and reach and how these may be disproportionate to cisgender female competitors.

/science