VFS Glottoplasty - Post-op results

[thegreenrabbit]

37 days post-op. Have been plagued by sore throats etc. Still not totally healed yet. Still a stitch and some glue irritating the vocal folds. I won't post a recording yet, not until the voice is clearer. Measured at 220 Hz, but ability to go down to 150 Hz. When I figure out how to post an image, I'll upload the PRAAT measurements.

[thegreenrabbit]

Measured voice today and it was down to 160 hz, which surprised me because it had measured 220 is on previous occasions. The theory I think here is that even after surgery that we still have to use a "trained" voice to keep it at the higher pitch but that the former lowest pitch has been removed. So without any training or effort the voice would remain on its borderline lowest. I think that my initial high measurements can be attributed to the instability caused by healing. I still have a single stitch and glue even 39 days post-op.

[Cristal Muso]

Measured voice today and it was down to 160 hz, which surprised me because it had measured 220 is on previous occasions. The theory I think here is that even after surgery that we still have to use a "trained" voice to keep it at the higher pitch but that the former lowest pitch has been removed. So without any training or effort the voice would remain on its borderline lowest. I think that my initial high measurements can be attributed to the instability caused by healing. I still have a single stitch and glue even 39 days post-op.

Not that it matters but I remember when I had my vaginoplasty, 4 resorbable thread (out of 58) were still there 2 months after the surgery and went away 3 months after the surgery. Patience

[kwala]

Measured voice today and it was down to 160 hz, which surprised me because it had measured 220 is on previous occasions. The theory I think here is that even after surgery that we still have to use a "trained" voice to keep it at the higher pitch but that the former lowest pitch has been removed. So without any training or effort the voice would remain on its borderline lowest. I think that my initial high measurements can be attributed to the instability caused by healing. I still have a single stitch and glue even 39 days post-op.

Very interesting.  Most have reported similar findings, but also that it is "easier" to get into the upper range than before.  Have you noticed differences in timbre?  Thanks for sharing your results!

[thegreenrabbit]

Very interesting.  Most have reported similar findings, but also that it is "easier" to get into the upper range than before.  Have you noticed differences in timbre?  Thanks for sharing your results!

Hard to say if timbre has changed yet because of the hoarseness, but there is a change ...also psychologically.

[calicarly]

Hi grew rabbit,

Looking forward to hearing your results, I'm becoming increasingly interested in glottoplasty due to the straining I constantly feel to my vocal cords. Where did you have it done?

[anjaq]

One word of advice though about straining the voice - simply doing voice therapy will usually also help this. Pre OP as well as Post OP ans well as Non OP - The success of the surgery will apparently also be better if one does not go into it while still having voice issues like constant straining. Dr Kim at Yeson basically told me to first get my strained voice sorted out before the surgery, or he would have to tell me that pitch increase and healing time may be less favourable...

[thegreenrabbit]

Pitch measurement at 190 today using no straining. Still hoarse due to stitch and fibrin glue. Coming on 7 weeks post op, can't be long now before they dissolve. Though the fact that they have lasted so long as benefited the healing process.

[thegreenrabbit]

Nearly 8 weeks post op and voice still hoarse but clearer. Recent ENT examination showed that both vocal cords were not quite closing but that's where the training comes in. The glue and stitches held for nearly 8 weeks, which helped support the area during my recent emergency surgery. Will post up a recording after my 3 month mark. My timbre has altered slightly and my lowest pitch seems to be now at 170. During the day it goes higher, but I still lack power to raise my voice.

[thegreenrabbit]

I look forward to starting post vfs voice therapy in a weeks time. I've purposefully not attempted any DIY exercises until I've spoken with her.

[anjaq]

Good luck on the voice therapy. It definitely will help, I am sure.

What do you mean with th elowest pitch being 170 Hz - that is the lowest average when you measure a text reading in a relaxed voice or is that really your lowest possible note, the lowest tone you can sing?

[thegreenrabbit]

Back to drinking coffee,albeit decaffeinated :-)

[thegreenrabbit]

First post op speech therapy today. It appears that my vocal cords are not quite closing properly and the next sessions will be centered around relaxing the muscles and trying to close that gap. My voice at the moment is more breathy than hoarse. I seem to get by better talking to people although it's difficult to be heard if there is any background noise. Still early days.

[thegreenrabbit]

The actual cost in Belgium is between 3 to 4500 Euro. They ask for 4500 as a surety if unforeseen costs should occur and .the difference is refunded a month or two after surgery. Not many speak English at the hospital so a grasp of basic French is advisable. If you are flying in to Brussels Airport, it is about an hour by taxi. There is a patient hotel available should you wish to stay the night before and a few days afterwards. Price is 43 euros per night including food.

[anjaq]

So it is about 2/3 to 3/4 of the price at Yeson and for Europeans the travel costs are lower.

[thegreenrabbit]

So it is about 2/3 to 3/4 of the price at Yeson and for Europeans the travel costs are lower.

Yes. From what I can gather, the initial surety amount can vary according to the country of origin. If all goes to plan I think the actual cost is closer to 3000 euros. Also depending on circumstances it is free. European Union and all that......

[mmmmm]

I think Yeson charges slightly unreasonable amount for this surgery. It's not a long procedure, and it's not like they are located in Beverly Hills or Aspen or somewhere like that, but in Korea. I guess they do, because they can. If I will have VFS, I think I will definitely have it done locally, and covered by insurance (post-op therapy included)

[anjaq]

Well, Gangnam, Seoul is probably as close to Aspen or Beverly Hills as you can get in Korea

Yes, I think the costs are a bit high given that it is just one day in the clinic and a 90 min surgery at most plus 2 consultations/examinations and a Botox injection - I guess the price is for the skill and expertise of the surgeon much more than for the time and effort around it.

Doing it locally may work, if you can make sure you have a good surgeon locally. Who has expertise, experience and you can have contact with former patients who are happy about it and also those who are unhappy (and find out what makes them unhappy and if that would be an issue for you too). But in a way it is as with GRS - there are approx. 10 surgeons doing GRS in Germany. They are all insurance covered mostly. So a lot of people go there and some are happy, some are not, some say they are happy but are in fact not, some get mutilated but dont talk about it etc etc. Others take the effort and money and go to Dr Suporn in Thailand because he does a lot of things differently and has a higher success rate and less complications. But it means going from no costs to 15000 or so. There is constantly fights between those who claim that this is nonsense, too expensive, not worth it, local doctors are as good as him and they'd rather stay local - and those who talk about the different techniques, success rates and so on and are willing to pay any price for a homologous reconstruction instead of a penile inversion surgery which is the standard in Germany. So, its each persons choice. There is also one surgeon in Germany who does not do penile inversion and an increasong number of surgeons are interested now to change that as well, but you have to know which ones are good at the new technique and which ones are not yet good - same thing as with VFS - there are many people doing CTA and also a lot of people doing Glottoplasty, but which of the ones do a good job and which ones have low success rates and tell you , you wont be able to sing afterwards - thats a different story then.

[iKate]

Yeson kind of popularized it and has lots of consistent, documented results. It's not that the other surgeons aren't any good, it's just that Dr Kim has a reputation behind him, real examples and a consistent result. You pay for the result anyway. Surgeons charge what they charge and I recall Jenny saying she would go back there because the care was so good.

[anjaq]

True - the care was good. You could always ask about things, Dr Kim took forever time to answer all my questions. I liked that a lot, but I dont think it is unique. I think one has to make a decision mainly based on the results and the experiences of others who have been there - the reputation basically. Other surgeons are not all bad of course - but there are some who are and one has to take care to pick good ones and not just generalize "VFS works, Dr Kim can do it so the voice surgeon in my city who also does VFS will do a good job too, I like him"... one has to watch out. It seems that Prof Remarcle has a good reputation and people seem to be happy with him, in Germany the reputation in respect to VFS is rather questionable, so its hard to decide because a lot is just hearsay... the reason I chose Yeson even if it was more expensive was that I did not want to take risks and did not see a way to get proper and valid information on others. Sadly many patients dont put videos or audio samples online from other surgeons or write reports. Yeson was the best documented surgeon I found, so I went with him - but that was my own preferrence and choice. Since I made that decision , a lot more information about other surgeons has surfaced, so the options are different now...