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Are God good or evil, if they exists?

Started by Sebby Michelango, March 06, 2016, 05:00:22 AM

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Are God good or evil, if they exists? Tell your opinion in this thread.

God is evil
God is good
God is both
I don't know
God is good, but imperfect

Sebby Michelango

I saw some very interesting topics like "Do God exist?", "Why did God make people transgender?" and "Why do God make people suffer". So I decided to make a similar thread with that big question so people can tell their opinions. This thread isn't meant to be offensive, but rather understand peoples believes better. :)
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KarlMars

Hello again, Sebby.
I have blamed God for making me born female and struggled with religion all my life while studying several religions. Shortly after I came fully to terms with surely believing I was as trans man in my early 20's and realizing it wasn't just a childhood, and teenage fantasy I became more religious. I am a Unitarian Universalist, and looking into getting baptized as an Episcopalian soon. I go to the Episcopalian church later this morning for the first time in years. I have heard that the Episcopalian church is more accepting of LGBT community than other denominations. More important than denomination, if you ever want to be Christian that is- is your personal relationship with Jesus. Only God will ever understand you and see what good you do and how much you ask for forgiveness.

I see my transexuality as a challenge God has given me after praying and praying for answers and asking him to guide me in the right direction and take away the shame of being in a female body.

I believe God allows a certain amount of evil to happen in the world such as hate crimes and war, and any other tragedy. Jesus loves you no matter what, Sebby.

Kylo

#2
The problem with god is that most religions claim that god has a human personality. The Judeo-Christian god for example is said to "have made man in his image" and in the Bible is said to do things and react to things in the same way a human being would. I.e. reacting with anger, jealousy, or rewarding people who have obeyed and killing people who don't. I believe the Bible was written by human beings and not god, so it's a no-brainer to me they couldn't imagine the motivations of a non-human god.

The result is that if god acts like a human being, appears to thinks like a human being, then he comes off as a jealous, sadistic and cruel being. Why would he create men with foreskins and demand they undergo a painful ritual to slice it off to prove their loyalty? Why would he "curse" all women with periods and childbirth because of the actions of one woman? Why would he order Abraham to take his young son to the top of a mountain and sacrifice him like a goat, grieving the father and likely traumatizing the child, as a 'test'? Why would he even create imperfect human beings with undesirable impulses and then expect them to act perfectly? Why does he allow suffering to exist at all when he could make a world without it - or, if we are being punished for the actions of our forefathers, how long is he going to let this go on? If he 'loves' mankind then why does he allow each and every human being to suffer and potentially doubt his existence, and for mankind to flounder in the dark when he could descend from heaven right now and prove to all that he is the true god and that heaven IS assured for all who follow him? Would he really create people all over the world - people who never heard of Judaism or Christianity and then punish them with no salvation for the fact they never obeyed his teachings because nobody ever told them about Jesus? All seems an exercise in administering suffering and sadism on his part - if we assign human motivations to him.

If god were some kind of incomprehensible alien whose motivations were never clear, then perhaps his allowing of suffering wouldn't seem cruel or strange. If god were an indescribable force that simply started the big bang and let everything else coalesce and create itself afterward, I could accept that more happily than I could a god who displays many traits of what we would describe as a "bad" person. Even a person who did good things all their lives, but was capable of a few equally evil acts we would no longer trust to be a wholly 'good person', a pure person.

Human beings tend to believe that the innocent do not deserve to suffer. And that the ignorant can't be blamed for not knowing things before they are told them. That's logical. Most - if not all - flawed human beings are innocent and ignorant in some way. Those who knowingly propagate and allow cruelty we call evil. To me the Judeo-Christian god is certainly doing this, as far as I can understand it all with my mere human brain. He allows the innocent to suffer, or causes them to suffer for things they didn't do, and he would punish the ignorant for things they do not know. If he creates human beings, he allows some of them to be born with flaws that would end in them being sent to hell, or allows them to be born with life-threatening or degenerative deformities that would never allow them to lead a normal life. If he created "all things bright and beautiful" he also created diseases and parasites whose only purpose appears to be to live inside a human brain or a human eye and cause suffering and death. I could go on, but you get the point. His actions do not match up to the image of a benevolent and loving god. And if this life is a 'test' from him, why is there so much in it that is irrelevant to the purpose of the test - if I am born with a fatal childhood disease that means I will never live long enough to even be able to understand his teachings and be subject to the test, what on earth is the 'point' of that!

Now if you want my opinion on whether or not the thing or force or... whatever it is that decided what the speed of light is, or the configuration for the stability of electrons around atoms is, and therefore enabled the universe and life to exist, then no, I don't think it is good or evil. It is impartial and uncaring as to the situation of any one particular collection of atoms we call a human being. But all those human-personality gods out there that create humans from dust on a whim and then get upset and vengeful that they aren't perfect do not seem to be 'good'.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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MelloYellowSurge

It depends on the god in question. Some people happen to be believe in multiple gods, where others believe in a single god, and still others believe in no god at all (like myself). If you mean the Abrahamic god worshipped by Jews, Christians, and Muslims then one could argue that the answer would be evil. This, of course, would be based on the words within the Torah, Bible, Quran, and other scriptures central to those religions. However, one could argue in a variety of ways if we're talking about the Hindu god Krishna, the Greek goddess Aphrodite, the Norse god Loki, or others.

In short, it comes down to which god/goddess you're referring to. This is putting aside whether or not a god can/does exist as that's another topic for another thread. I hope this helps.
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Sebby Michelango

I think the gods in Christianity, Judaism, Islam and the Greek mythology are very human like. They have some human traits, but also something that I consider as pure evilness.

The Abrahamic God are evil and gruesome in my opinion. He made a world with imperfect creatures and expect them to be perfect. But he made them imperfect, so punish them instead of making them perfect doesn't make sense for me. That God miss logic. He also saw the bad acts humans did, then he decided to kill all of them with drowning except Noah and some of the animals. For me he sounds very sadistic. God killed billions, the devil killed only 10 persons. In many histories in the Old testament God doesn't want peace, he is cheering at people to make a war. He choose a group of people that he called for "God's people", and used them to kill other. He also punished "God's people" and the other people around.

In Islam God aka. Allah choose a prophet to represent him, that's Mohammed. Mohammed married a 9 year old girl, had several wives and was a person who gladly made war. Mohammed hasn't that kind guy image as Jesus. In all the 3 main Abrahamic religions there was discrimination against women, LGBT* and non-believers to mention someone.

By the way, I am a atheist. So I don't believe at any gods, afterlife or religions. But when I'm reading the Abrahamic Gods description, I would say he's evil.
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Sebby Michelango

Quote from: MelloYellowSurge on March 06, 2016, 09:52:54 AM
It depends on the god in question. Some people happen to be believe in multiple gods, where others believe in a single god, and still others believe in no god at all (like myself). If you mean the Abrahamic god worshipped by Jews, Christians, and Muslims then one could argue that the answer would be evil. This, of course, would be based on the words within the Torah, Bible, Quran, and other scriptures central to those religions. However, one could argue in a variety of ways if we're talking about the Hindu god Krishna, the Greek goddess Aphrodite, the Norse god Loki, or others.

In short, it comes down to which god/goddess you're referring to. This is putting aside whether or not a god can/does exist as that's another topic for another thread. I hope this helps.

You can mention all the religion you want to and tell us your opinion about gods from difference religions.
But mainly I'm thinking at the Abrahamic God, since it's him we hear most about where I live. There are many Christians and Muslims in Norway. Judaism has much attention here as well, even though there aren't so many of them here.
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Adchop

To me this is a difficult question. I consider myself to be deist & agnostic. We can all express belief in who we think God is, but the truth is none of us really know. We can only base our belief on faith, not fact.

I think Thomas Jefferson had it right when he wrote in the Declaration of Independence "The Laws of Nature, & Nature's God".

I think on some level we all feel & know there is something more to this life, but none of us can prove it. In terms of what we can prove & how it relates to us. Science has made many breakthroughs, many of which are contrary to religious belief. Christians who say anyone within the LGBT spectrum are sinners because God created us with genitals that makes us straight, really have no way to explain how God could also create individuals who are born with both genitals/organs (intersex).

The truth is the Bible was written by humans, not by God himself. Any person who claims individuals on the LGBT spectrum to be immoral are basing it on a book written by men, not by God. Therefore, there is no way for Christians to prove what is & is not immoral.

To me, I believe we are all encoded with an innate ability to discern right from wrong. The enlightenment thinkers called it "human reason". I believe that if we all take time to reflect & dig deep within ourselves, we will find a connection with Nature's God in the same way that many throughout history have.
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FreyasRedemption

Well, the gods who I believe in either care about all life in existence, and we, as humans, are not entitled to some special treatment just because we're a slight bit smarter and more emotionally complex than your average animal, or they are more akin to inspirational forces that influence our thoughts and feelings when they feel like it could accomplish something. Such as the creation of art. Or the invention of something that could change people's lives. Or setting off a war. Or giving an individual person (totally not talking about myself here) a sudden determined mood that helps her out of a really bad situation. Depends on the god, and their intention.

My opinion on the Abrahamic God? I'd like to think of him as well-meaning, but as someone who understandably didn't think of the possibility that teaching people how to live peacefully with each other would result in people killing and despising each other.
There is a better tomorrow.
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Kylo

I can't think of him as well meaning at all.

What kind of creature claims to give a human being a "choice" whether to 'follow him' or not - when there is no real choice to make. Free will is useless if the only option is eternal torture (which the human mind could barely comprehend suffering) or obedience.

A tyrant offers such 'choices'.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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Alycya

 God is evil
God is good
God is both
I don't know
God is good, but imperfect

I cannot vote  (none of the above).

The reason is very simple: God does not exist.

We just live in a living Universe and we are an integrant part of it. The Universe is neither good nor evil, it's just what it is - as it is.

Life is perfectly imperfect, this allows evolution to happen. In human being this evolution implies also a growth in awareness (self consciousness).

The more this awareness grows, more there is understanding, wisdom, intelligence, comprehension, love and compassion.

:)

Aly
"Know masculinity, maintain femininity, and be a ravine for all under heaven" - Lao Tzu

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Sebby Michelango

Quote from: Alycya on March 06, 2016, 12:47:39 PM
God is evil
God is good
God is both
I don't know
God is good, but imperfect

I cannot vote  (none of the above).

The reason is very simple: God does not exist.

We just live in a living Universe and we are an integrant part of it. The Universe is neither good nor evil, it's just what it is - as it is.

Life is perfectly imperfect, this allows evolution to happen. In human being this evolution implies also a growth in awareness (self consciousness).

The more this awareness grows, more there is understanding, wisdom, intelligence, comprehension, love and compassion.

:)

Aly

Actually I'm a atheist myself and are very agree with you this time. But I made this thread to see which opinions example believers has about God. I voted "Evil", because even thought he don't exist in real life, the Abrahamic gods sounds evil. The bible's God sounds sadistic for me. You can think a character in a book is evil, even they isn't necessary real.
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Alycya

Quote from: Sebby Michelango on March 07, 2016, 08:26:45 AM
Actually I'm a atheist myself and are very agree with you this time. But I made this thread to see which opinions example believers has about God. I voted "Evil", because even thought he don't exist in real life, the Abrahamic gods sounds evil. The bible's God sounds sadistic for me. You can think a character in a book is evil, even they isn't necessary real.

I understand what you mean Sebby. The problem of the Bible is that in translations they used the term "god", but if we start from the original text of the Torah (the Bible) we can see that the translation is not a real translation, it's just an interpretation.

I understand what you mean, if "god" become a "person" than it looks evil, cruel... but in some mystical traditions (Hasidism i.e.) the "god" of the bible is not a "person" - but a state of awareness - the Ultimate Awareness.

And the stories in Bible are a mix of historical facts and metaphors - they shouldn't be considered literally, a metaphor is just a finger pointing the moon. The ones who analyze the finger do not manage to see the Moon.

;)

Aly
"Know masculinity, maintain femininity, and be a ravine for all under heaven" - Lao Tzu

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Tamika Olivia

It really hangs on how you define good and evil. I personally don't like defining beings as good or evil, and reserve the labels for actions. If God saves a puppy from getting hit by a car, that's pretty good act. If God dooms a village to die of malaria, that's obviously evil. God, under most definitions of that concept, does both of those types of things on the regular. So, if God exists, then God is doing both good and evil acts. If God is capable of free will, then like every one of us, God should be lauded for his good acts and held accountable for his evil ones.
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michelle

God is Unknowable.   We discover the attributes of God in the Universe of Universes that God created through scientific discovery,  meditation,  the Holy Scriptures of all his Manifestations including Krishna, Buddha, Moses,  Zoroaster, Christ, Mohammed, The Bab, Baha'ullah, the Prophets of the Old Testament, the Koran, etc.   But with all of this we are on a journey, or what I like to call a 'walkabout' toward the Unknowable God who will be revealing more and more of God's attributes throughout all the ages to come.

Personally, I like to look at the Holy Scripture as Lighthouses that lead us back to our journey toward God when we drift from each of our individual paths which are uniquely different for each one of us and the Holy Scriptures are not Guard Houses which keep us inclosed within the legalists castle walls.

We are who we are and God cares for each and every one of us.  Hell is just a state of being of the soul where we feel totally disconnected from God and are left floating aimlessly in at abyss of ignorance having lost our bearings and even a faint glimmer of the Beauty of the Light that shines in each one of us.

The Scriptures may show us both our dark side and our spiritual side to help guide our pathway to the Light and away from the Darkness that can eat away our spirits.
Be true to yourself.  The future will reveal itself in its own due time.    Find the calm at the heart of the storm.    I own my womanhood.

I am a 69-year-old transsexual school teacher grandma & lady.   Ethnically I am half Irish  and half Scandinavian.   I can be a real bitch or quite loving and caring.  I have never taken any hormones or had surgery, I am out 24/7/365.
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Kylo

If there is a god we humans probably do not understand it much at all. We barely understand ourselves.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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DogSpirit

Quote from: Alycya on March 06, 2016, 12:47:39 PM
We just live in a living Universe and we are an integrant part of it. The Universe is neither good nor evil, it's just what it is - as it is.

Nicely put, Alycya. I agree, but take it in a different direction.

I believe in a holographic universe metaphor: If you create a hologram of a firetruck onto a piece of glass then break the glass, each piece contains the whole firetruck, though at a lower resolution. Using this metaphor, I believe that the hologram we call the universe is God and we are each pieces of that hologram.
===============================================
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, "Anthem"
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Alycya

Quote from: DogSpirit on March 22, 2016, 04:29:07 PM
Nicely put, Alycya. I agree, but take it in a different direction.

I believe in a holographic universe metaphor: If you create a hologram of a firetruck onto a piece of glass then break the glass, each piece contains the whole firetruck, though at a lower resolution. Using this metaphor, I believe that the hologram we call the universe is God and we are each pieces of that hologram.

... the Ocean is made up by countless tiny drops of water, and each drop of water is the Ocean itself...

;)

Hugs,
Aly
"Know masculinity, maintain femininity, and be a ravine for all under heaven" - Lao Tzu

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