Passing or Acceptance, redux

[beth]

It's an easy question, acceptance is the most important. Passing without acceptance is worthless.





beth

[Leigh]

I voted for passing. 

Am I understanding that you would rather appear as a woman and be treated like a man?

On the other hand, if everyone who knew me insisted on calling me "he", even though it does get on my nerves, strangers would just wonder why the heck they're saying that. (In this scenario they couldn't catch on, since that would mean not passing

Oh they would catch on. 

[Lori]

                    Unfortunately, one will never be accepted by strangers unless they pass, even if they are completely accepted by friends and family. Acceptance without passing only comes with familiarity.



beth

I agree with that statement. I think both are important. I chose pass because most of the time I wouldn't be around the people that accepted or knew me. If you pass you are autmatically accepted and life is much easier. I know it sounds like going stealth, but you don't have to out yourself to complete total strangers.

[umop ap!sdn]

Am I understanding that you would rather appear as a woman and be treated like a man?

No, that's not what I meant to imply. 

Oh they would catch on. 

But that would mean not passing. Passing, as I understand the term, means one who does not already know assumes that you're the gender you wish to be seen as. Well yeah, who doesn't want that? But because of the aforementioned automatic acceptance thing, maybe that isn't what is being asked in this poll.

So then my options are thus:
- Not pass but be accepted and have to put up with the same issues I did growing up (e.g. dislike for my own appearance), or
- Look, sound, feel, etc exactly as I want to and be happy with myself, but have to put up with the same issues I face now (e.g. pronoun usage, especially in the workplace).

Reflecting on the times when I was accepted but maybe didn't quite pass, and on the times when I'm passable but someone spoiled it for me, the former were more pleasant experiences, but on the other hand I'm happier now then I was before realizing that I need to do this. So for me there's no easy answer.

[melissa_girl]

I would rather Pass and be treated as a woman rather than just Accepted that I'm transsexual and be treated as such.

Melissa

[Louise]

Acceptance, definitely.

As a man I normally wear a full beard.  My wife likes it and I think I look good in a beard.  I have worn a beard for over 30 years.  Occasionally I have shaved to achieve a more feminine appearance (not that I ever really come close to passing).  Normally at home I will dress en femme without shaving.

I have on occasion attended meetings of the local TG support group (a mixed group of CD and TS) dressed in a skirt and wearing a beard.  (I have not done this often, but I have done it on more than just a few occasions.)  In such a situation I definitely do not pass, but I definitely would like to be accepted--by other members of the TG community, and in my fondest dreams by anyone.

Louise,
The bearded lady

[melissa_girl]

I have on occasion attended meetings of the local TG support group (a mixed group of CD and TS) dressed in a skirt and wearing a beard. 

Also known as gender-bending. 

Hey Steph  , you should add Gender-bender to the wiki.  I noticed it's not there.

Melissa

[stephanie_craxford]

Hey there Melissa.

Thaks for that, I'll check into it and see where it goes.

Steph

[Owen]

 I choose acceptance. I'd rather be accepted for what I am be it male or female.

Owen
love being female

[Terri-Gene]

Not being a male I resent being eferred to as one.  No matter how good I can manage to look infem having people refer to me as "He" is a disrespect from those that know what I am doing.

I would select acceptance for being what I am and to be treated as a female of the species.  I'v allready spent 50 years being tolerated or allowed threw, there is no longer any room for anything but acceptance, even if I arn't one of the pretty ones.

Treat me as I give and I give so much more .......

Terri Gene

[Kate]

Interesting. I'm assuming the passing option means I have to walk around with a "Used to be a man" taped to my forhead or something (since no one would otherwise know)?

Still, I choose total passing. Considering all my rants elsewhere, I'm surprised at myself. Huh. I'm shallow. Whadaya know?

But somehow total passing would give *me* internal peace. If I was THAT happy with myself, I could deal with the barbs society throws at me. *I* wouldn't feel like an imposter, regardless of what people say. And I could work for acceptance - or at least hope for it someday.

But after all my rantings about how it's not worth transitioning if everyone hates you afterwards, even if you're being true to yourself... now I'm contradicting myself. Great... I'm gonna be pondering why I chose that all week now, lol. I just learned something... I'm just not sure what it is yet

[Melissa]

I just had a thought about this.  Passing is something you have control over.  Acceptance is something within other that you do not have control of.  This in one of the reasons I chose passing, because I know it's obtainable, but I'm not going to hold my breath and wait for everyone to be accepting.  That the realist side of me.

Melissa

[Kimberly]

Keep in mind this is a fantasy land question; Optimal case not at all based on reality, rather to get you to think about your preferences and why.

[Leigh]

Think of it like this.

You could be absolutely beautiful, have everything you do be appropiate to your gender but everyone knows your past and will not accept you as female or male.

OR

You could be a less than beauttiful woman or man, to the point that everyone knows your past but you are admitted to the inner circle without any reservations what so ever.

[Melissa]

Well, that changes things.  Rather than "passing", we have changed it to "look just like a woman".  A good instance of this would be a beautiful transsexual who becomes famous on TV.

Now that we have changed the choices between acceptance and beauty, I would have to go with acceptance.

Melissa

[Kate]

Now that we have changed the choices between acceptance and beauty, I would have to go with acceptance.

I'm stickin' with Total Passing, though I'll clarify that it has nothing to do with a desire to be beautiful, but rather to be convincingly female.

The source of my angst is a need to be female, and not necessarily feminine (though it's implied to some extent). So I couldn't possibly pass up the opportunity to be so convincingly female, since that would heal my internal angst. The attached acceptance problems would certainly be painful, but in a different way, no different than any other bigotry. It's a bit like the difference between being made fun of because you're bald, versus being made fun of because you're wearing a toupee.

If I chose Total Acceptance, I'd STILL feel that awful dispair whenever I saw my masculine self in the mirror. In a way, I'm already living this option to a small extent. I certainly don't pass, and no one *literally* thinks I'm a woman, but I'm often treated as if I am by everyone who knows me - though mostly in subtle ways. I've had women talk about their period in front of me suddenly ask me about mine.. then realize their mistake a few seconds later. Weird stuff like that happens to me all the time, though I can't explain why, as I'm honestly Just Another Guy in the crowd. But I'm certainly not treated the same was as the other guys I know. And yet... it's not enough, and never could be.

[Melissa]

It just dawned on me that I have been faced with this choice recently.  At my last support group meeting, I had the choice to wear my wig and be quite passable, or go with just the hair on my head and be much less passable, but my true self.  I decided on going without the wig. It was great.  I felt so much better about myself, because wearing it just made me feel fake, but I had people compliment me on my real hair.  I even went without breastforms because I'm starting to show in the right shirts.  So, I'll stand by my decision change.

Melissa

[Kate]

It just dawned on me that I have been faced with this choice recently.  At my last support group meeting, I had the choice to wear my wig and be quite passable, or go with just the hair on my head and be much less passable, but my true self.  I decided on going without the wig. It was great.  I felt so much better about myself, because wearing it just made me feel fake, but I had people compliment me on my real hair.  I even went without breastforms because I'm starting to show in the right shirts.  So, I'll stand by my decision change.

Ironically, we may be saying the same thing. The idea seems to be one of self-acceptance, that if you're comfortable with yourself, content that you're finally really, truly YOU, then the barbs thrown at you don't hurt so much - or at least not in the same way.

You accepted yourself in going to that meeting, which is wonderful! I envy that in the posts I read around this forum, and I'm trying to find that peace for myself as well. But in the scenario we're discussing, being Totally Passable is my way of finding instant self-acceptance, since I'd have no doubts about me appearance, mannerisms, voice, etc.

EDIT: One might say you're accepting yourself regardless of how you look, and I'm accepting myself regardless of what people say. Now if we can just *combine* those two in real life...

[Melissa]

My point was that everyone else was accepting, so that made me feel more comfortable.

Melissa

[Leigh]

The classical definition of passing is not being "read"  or seen as anything other than female.

Being seen as female is not the same as being accepted as one.