Passing or Acceptance, redux

[Kimberly]

What Makes a Woman", or a man for that matter

In one of the previous incarnations of Susan's I started a thread:  Passing or Acceptance?
Would you rather totally pass as a woman and not be accepted as one or be accepted totally as one but not pass as one.  200 + replies later the verdict was still not in.

Leigh

The revival...

If you could choose just one of total passing or complete acceptance which would you choose, and why?


Clarification:

In this context total passing means looking/sounding and everything else external to that of a GG but NOT being accepted as one, i.e. being seen as an imposter.
While, complete acceptance is NOT looking like a girl, but being accepted as one.

In essence is looking the part (passing) or living the part (acceptance) more important to you?

Another way of looking at it is, is who you are alone (passing) more important than how others regard you (acceptance)

[edit]for clarification[/edit]

[Kimberly]

Complete Acceptance

Because...

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

An given the choice, I'd rather be loved and accepted for what I am.

[stephanie_craxford]

Acceptance for me... looks are not everything.  There are men who don't look like men, just as there are women who don't look like women.  But they are still men and women and always will be.

Steph

[HelenW]

I think that being totally accepted is to be passing.  That's my definition.  I'm not sure how the two could be mutually exclusive but if they are, aceeptance is key.

[Leigh]

Passing means that to all appearences this person a female.  There are no external clues that this person has been seen as male but is not treated as female by people.

Acceptance is when despite an appearence that may display male characteristics, this person is treated in every manner by every person as female.

It is possible to be either one, both or none of the above.

[Jillieann Rose]

No question in my mind. I'd rather be accepted for who I am.

Jillieann

[Terri-Gene]

this person is treated in every manner by every person as female

.


And even at times in greasy duds with wrenches in the hip pocket ......  Only they don't beleive you know what to do with them.

Terri

[Cassandra]

Acceptance without question. As has been pointed out acceptance is passing but passing is not necessarily acceptance.

Cassie

[Sara]

I'm with Helen on this matter. Looks give the first impression which can bring acceptance.

Sara.

[joanna]

Ok.  First let me say this poll seems simple but I think its getting too complicated by the minute.   But I personally would prefer to be completely accepted as a girl anytime.   I hope I would still look totally passable though in the process.

Cheers,


joanna

[Kimberly]

Oh, that is a good point Melissa and I agree, it is quite a parallel to that question.

[Chaunte]

It has to be acceptance.

I think that learning to accept people for who they are, not who you want them to be, would make this world a lot more peaceful & friendly.

Chaunte

[DawnL]

To be contrary, I contend this poll is meaningless.  Sure, as an exercise, it sounds well and good to say acceptance trumps passing but in the real world, it doesn't work that way.  Women who look and act the part usually gain greater acceptance than those who don't.  There are exceptions--women who overcome their poor passability and gain acceptance but it isn't that common.  That is why so many of us spend so much time trying to improve our presentation and passability.  Transgender *isn't* well accepted, that's the reality.  Acceptance is most often gained through congruence with our chosen gender. 

Dawn

[Leigh]

Passing or presentation is having the appearence of being female.

Acceptence is when you are accepted even if your presentation does not necessarily represent a female.

[ChefAnnagirl]

DawnL said

" Transgender *isn't* well accepted, that's the reality.  Acceptance is most often gained through congruence with our chosen gender."

I think that this really spells it out in so many ways... I truly believe now more than ever that we mostly get back what exactly we put out there and how we do it...

If the self-confidence and comfort that so easily comes, and sometimes quite literally, shines,
from the sense and relief of someone that's radiating a much more truly unedited self-expression, as a beautiful and self-empowering by-product of greater "self-congruence" - if this is what REALLY comes across, oh well then - 
For all the critics, it's just so aggregiously sad - horribly dark, and i think sickeningly brutal for their own spirit, that they cannot even recognize true self-acknowledgement, and of someone joyously excercising the right of living free will and genuine lovingness, even when it's staring them straight in the face...

Lovingly always,
Sincerely,


Annagirl

[Northern Jane]

I guess I was lucky - SRS at 24, on HRT for most of 10 years before that, skinny, and pretty. "Passing" was never an issue.

Years went by, I gained weight, I stopped caring how I looked, and age took it's toll on my looks, but I had "acceptance", even in my worst moments.

"Passing" is fun, especially when done well but "acceptance" is important to your mental health.

Going on 32 years post-op now and few people would ever guess where I started 

[melissa_girl]

Thanks for the bit of info Jane.  That makes a lot of sense.

Melissa

[beth]

                    Unfortunately, one will never be accepted by strangers unless they pass, even if they are completely accepted by friends and family. Acceptance without passing only comes with familiarity.



beth

[Hazumu]

First, Thank you, Leigh, for broaching the original subject.  It was something I really needed to think about for a while.

At the risk of sounding like a 'me, too' post--

I'd have to say that if it were an either-or choice, I'd have to choose acceptance. 

Passing would be nice, but there's always that dark secret deep within you that you can't share.

Acceptance means that everybody knows you spent time as the other gender, but it's just a fact that doesn't make a difference.  People are treating you with the respect due a fellow human being.

The dilemma here is that it's not a perfect world and there are those persons who will use your condition as a means to -- in their own mind -- make you less than human, make you a loser, relative to them.  These are the people who will NEVER accept me because, to them, I'm a 'freak' or worse.  Guranteed passing with these people would be relatively safe (though I suspect that with these same individuals I might be at risk for being raped by them.)

As an aside (and because I'm thinking about it,) people often 'script' their lives.  IOW, they have a metaphor of their life as a hollywood movie with them as the star, and they have a 'script' with a whole bunch of both major and minor characters in it (bad-guys are examples of major characters, and are used to make the 'star' more important-seeming.)  One subset of minor characters in these scripts could be labeled 'FREAKS!'.  I'm anticipating that some day I'll run into someone with such a script, they'll read me and announce in a loud voice that carries (or otherwise broadcast their identification to the world, ) "You're a FREAK!!!"  I hope when that day comes (it will,) that the situation is such that I can with relative safety answer, "No, I'm YOUR freak."

I'd definitely prefer 100% accetance.  The strain of trying to pass all over again, this time as female, is something I don't wish to repeat.

Haz

[umop ap!sdn]

I voted for passing. To be honest, I personally could not bear to present myself in public if I didn't think I'd pass. To look in the mirror and see a non-passable reflection would be devastating. But, that's just me and my opinion only.

On the other hand, if everyone who knew me insisted on calling me "he", even though it does get on my nerves, strangers would just wonder why the heck they're saying that. (In this scenario they couldn't catch on, since that would mean not passing.)