Living like a man

[Brenda]

from cnn.com:

Journalist Norah Vincent writes in her new book about dressing up and posing as a man. CNN's Paula Zahn reports (January 26)

The link will probably require Windows Media Player.

http://dynamic.cnn.com/apps/tp/video/us/2006/01/26/zahn.life.as.a.man.cnn/video.ws.asx

Brenda

[HelenW]

I read an interesting review of this book on Salon.com

An interesting detail about the author is that she committed herself to a psychiatric hospital after her experiment for reasons that she didn't make clear in the book (so the review said).

It was one of those reviews that made me say, "Interesting but I'd only buy it if it were on the clearance shelf!"

h

[Cassandra]

A woman living as a man who really is a woman? I do believe this reporter just set out to find out what it was to be a man and found out what it is to be transgendered instead. I have to wonder if she isn't TS and doing this research discovered her lie. Then unable to cope and with little or no guidance checked herself in.

There's a sign post up ahead, your about to enter, the Transgender Zone.

Cassie

[Dennis]

Yeah, interesting. I was wondering how long till she transitions too.

She says in the interview that it was living a lie that took a toll on her, though, and most of us know what that feels like. And that it can lead to serious psychological problems or unbearable stress.

I think I'd pick the book up if I saw it. Would be interesting to see the parallels between that and actual transition.

Dennis

[Cassandra]

I'm sure there will be some interesting parallels Dennis. I'm a little curious myself. She got a little dose of what it is to be us. Might be an interesting exercise for people who engage in violence against TG people. Force them to live as the opposite gender and see how they like being forced to live a lie.

Cassie

[Sarah Louise]

What is that "secret" language she is talking about?  I never knew of any secret language when I was pretending to be a man, or maybe it was because I was just pretending that I never learned it.

Sarah L.

[Dennis]

Dunno. I haven't noticed any secret language either. I suppose she could be talking about the things that are unsaid. Women do tend to put everything out on the table, but men tend to leave a lot unsaid.

Dennis

[Sarah Louise]

The "head nod" is a very German thing.  Also in the past when men wore hats, they would nod their head and touch the rim of their hat as a "polite" way of saying hello.

[Leigh]

http://www.dallasvoice.com/artman/publish/article_1043.php

[Shelley]

A woman living as a man who really is a woman? I do believe this reporter just set out to find out what it was to be a man and found out what it is to be transgendered instead.

I tend to agree Cassie,

It's like that saying that a lot of truths are passed of in gest.

Shelley

[Leigh]

I found this quote from Norah Vincent interesting .  It echos what I have been saying.

As I became more confident in my disguise... the props I had used... became less and less important, until sometimes I didn't need them at all,' Vincent writes. Gender marking, she found, is more about attitude than appearance.

[beth]

                   I saw a 30 minute or so story about her on 20/20? or one of those news magazines about 2 weeks ago. it was very interesting, She is lesbian and generally had a very low opinion of men before this project. She ended up having much more respect for men in general. I think the book would be well worth reading. She set out with a preconceived notion of how men would be and was completely surprised. It was the lying, the stress of being caught and the friendships that were made under false pretences that caused her to have a breakdown. Many of the stresses she faced were exactly what we face, constantly acting in a way that is uncomfortable, avoiding situations that make the feeling worse and living a lie.

         The important thing I got from her is that I have always prejudgeed men because of my condition, always looking for the negative. When she illustrated the positive sides of men it was all familiar to me but I had always dismissed the positive and focused only on the negative.

beth

[Cassandra]

I had always dismissed the positive and focused only on the negative.

I'm a bit guilty of that myself Beth. Which is kind of odd. My wife and I have male friends who are very nice, a lot of fun and we consider them good friends. Still sometimes I can't resist a little male bashing here and there. I probably need to get over that. Like you have said so much of our lives have been spent living in that particular lie that we tend to impose our negative viewpoint on all men.

Cassie

[Teri Anne]

Beth, you said, "Many of the stresses she faced were exactly what we face, constantly acting in a way that is uncomfortable, avoiding situations that make the feeling worse and living a lie."

Though I'm post-op (1999), I still have that UNCOMFORTABLE feeling now and then.  Even when people seem totally accepting of me, I can have an undercurrent of emotions -- waiting for the rug to be pulled out from under me.  It's happened about four times in all those six years where someone figures out or has discovered my previous gender.  When bad things like that happen, perhaps it's human nature to place more importance on that than all the thousands of times I've "passed" as a woman.  You try to laugh it off but it still can hurt.  As public acceptance of transsexualism becomes more common, this UNCOMFORTABLE fear that pre-ops AND post-ops face will presumably go away.  It, unfortunately, may take a few generations. 

Teri Anne

[andy]

I read the book, and found it fascinating.  I very much enjoy her writing style and was so riveted, I finished the book in two days.  She is a lesbian and very much enjoys being a woman and insists that she does not harbor any underlying trans issues, and I believe her.  Early in the book she relays an early experience of cross-dressing that took place years earlier with a drag-king friend of hers.  It was shocking for her to be able to walk down the same streets she walked every day...invisibly.  As a woman, she points out, one is always scrutinized by the male gaze and she equates the direct male gaze as a sign of dominance.  As a man, other men might make eye contact, but they quickly avert their gaze. 
She comes away from her experience with a new-found sympathy and respect for men.  It really is worth a look.

[Dennis]

I'd be interested in reading it. One thing about Norah Vincent, though, is that she has written some incredibly anti-trans stuff. The most recent I saw was in 2000, in the Advocate. I wonder if she has since moved from those views.

Did she make any mention of that sort of thing in the book?

One of her suggestions for trans people was to basically ignore it and live androgynously. Sort of a don't ask, don't tell policy for trans folks.

Dennis

[andy]

Hmmm....
You know, I have never heard of her prior to this book and her appearance on 20/20.  She admits to having conservative leanings, but made no mention of trans stuff in the book except to deny that she is an FTM.  She was interviewed on a radio station in my town and a few MTF's called in to discuss her experiences and she was extremely professional and polite, not a hint of animosity.  I guess I'll google her and see what I can find...

[Leigh]

One thing about Norah Vincent, though, is that she has written some incredibly anti-trans stuff. 

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1589/is_2000_Oct_10/ai_65806219

From another article

* Apparently eager to become the gay Dr. Laura, The Advocate's Norah Vincent attacks transsexuals for "reinforcing oppressive stereotypes" by "mutilating their bodies." She recommends transpeople forgo medicine to "live androgynously," a suggestion indistinguishable from the Right's exhortations that gays live as straight.

Quote for another article

LAST WORD
Norah Vincent
"When a special interest group of whatever stripe can rearrange reality at will, that's truly dangerous. That in fact is the very definition of totalitarianism," writes Vincent in her latest assessment of transgender politics.

[melissa_girl]

From another article

* Apparently eager to become the gay Dr. Laura, The Advocate's Norah Vincent attacks transsexuals for "reinforcing oppressive stereotypes" by "mutilating their bodies." She recommends transpeople forgo medicine to "live androgynously," a suggestion indistinguishable from the Right's exhortations that gays live as straight.

Actually, telling a transsexual to live androgynously is more analogous to telling a gay person to live asexually rather than straight.  What's the point of living if you can't live to embrace your full needs and desires?

Melissa

[Sarah Louise]

Right on Melissa.  Telling a TS to not transition is like telling them to kill themselves.

Sarah L.