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Passability

Started by Aaliyah, June 25, 2017, 01:34:36 AM

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Aaliyah

Hello I am a 19 year old transwoman struggling with the decision to transition.

My worry comes about not being able to pass, and not be able to be employed because of it (I honestly can care less if I look unattractive to guys). I currently finished my first year of schooling at a university, and want to be able yo go into forensic science. However, transitioning may be the reason I would not be able to get the job or be able to biology degree in any capacity.

As of right now, I am a little under 5'6" and weigh 115 pounds. People also say I look about 16, eventhough I am almost 19.5 years old. I have samll hands/feet for a "male", but they would be considered average to on the bigger side for a woman. I have started manipulating my voice to sound more feminine. When I am on the phone people assume I am a woman. Also, despite having a "male" gamertag playing video games, people think I am a female, without telling them I am female.

The thing I think that will make me "non passable" would be my shoulder width. I have large shoulders compared to my hips, and this gives me a very masculine body shape. Also, I have a moderately sized adams apple that is visble if I move my head a certain way. I also have facial hair (which I hate) that I have been shaving everyday since I was about 16 (this causes me the most amount of insecurity). I also have a oval shaped face with a boxy looking chin.

Here is a picture of me of how I look now (I am in the processs of growing my hair out):

http://imgur.com/a/CSrCV

Any advice/help would be greatly appreciated!

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Rachel_Christina

I think at 19 you would have a great chance.
I started at 26 and had so far I think great changes, back then I cared very little for passing. That has gotten worse and now I do worry more.
If you have your voice good like you say, it is a great starting place, probably one of the most important things.
And abit of square chin or and Adams apple can be fixed if it really Is highly masculine.
But the are girls with the square type faces who are very beautiful.
We have a very skewed view of what is masculine and feminine.
Wher are you based?, I was aiming myself for forensic science back when I did study lol


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Dena

Welcome to Susan's Place. Women sometime have narrow hips and broad shoulder but it doesn't cause them to be gendered male. The trick is in what they wear. A lose fitting top  with sleeves will cover the shoulders so they aren't a problem. Stay away from sleeveless or tops with narrow straps because they will make your shoulders look bigger. The reason I know this is because my fathers side of the family blessed me with a big chest cavity and broad shoulders. For a period of time, it was the style for woman's garments to have shoulder pads in them to give woman a big shoulder look. The first thing I did when I had a blouse like this was to rip the shoulder pads out and they fit perfectly.

All women have a list of things they can and can't wear. Why should we be any different?

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Aaliyah

Quote from: Rachel_Christina on June 25, 2017, 02:13:50 AM
I think at 19 you would have a great chance.
I started at 26 and had so far I think great changes, back then I cared very little for passing. That has gotten worse and now I do worry more.
If you have your voice good like you say, it is a great starting place, probably one of the most important things.
And abit of square chin or and Adams apple can be fixed if it really Is highly masculine.
But the are girls with the square type faces who are very beautiful.
We have a very skewed view of what is masculine and feminine.
Wher are you based?, I was aiming myself for forensic science back when I did study lol

I go to school and live in San Diego.
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Brooke

Just looking at your picture I would say you have wonderful passibility potential.

A few things to note.
Your skeleton hasn't quite fully fused. (This takes place between 18-25).
What this means is that under the influence of hrt there is a possibility to change the physical ratio/shape/size of your bone structure, including hips.  This is a closing window, one that many of us missed, including myself.

Facial hair. Hrt won't decrease any current facial hair, but will prevent new growth. Most girls here end up having to go through electrolysis which is hundreds of hours of pain and often over $10,000 to remove the hair. If you have little facial hair now, and start hrt you could use the majority of the money that would have been needed for electrolysis for a trachea shave and chin reduction/FFS.

Your shoulder width will change for the better during hrt. Hrt has a massive affect on muscle tone. Many believe they have massive shoulders, that once on hrt appear to melt away.

Hrt will help with rounding and softening of the face, and can change your overall body shape due to both fat redistribution (a misnomer as fat does not technically move, but you're body's preference for what areas of the body to store and use fat dose change).

You can try HRT, and if you find it's not for you, you can stop. There are some permanent changes that can happen over longer periods of time, but most of those can be reversed somewhat by stopping hrt, or surgically. I.e. Breast growth.

There is always a possibility of sterility that may be non reversible under hrt as well. I was told the higher transitional dosages for hrt have a high risk of sterility after nine months.

My suggestion would be to seek out a gender therapist if you haven't already, consider a low dose of hrt, or even anti androgens to minimize any additional facial hair growth, and be mindful of the window before you're bones fuse permanently.

Again, your potential to pass is very high. The more things that indicate "female" with your presentation the more likely others are to completely ignore anything pointing to male. The brain is funny that way, that we don't perceive reality as it is, but how we think it should be. The brain often completely ignores details that don't fit with the expected perception of our world.

I have tons of experience with this, where I had to force myself to lean into the male role before transitioning to avoid male fail. I've had times where I was dressed in all typical male attire, had stubble on my face, short hair, and still got gendered as female.

TL;DR hrt changes your appearance, including ratios, face, shape, etc. You can stop hrt at any point. The younger you start hrt the better outcome that can be achieved. Consider the window before bones fuse (25 years of age).


~Brooke~
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elkie-t

The sooner you stop growing in male pattern, the more chances you'll have in life as a female. There are bigger cis-women too and with time you'll learn to show your good assets and minimize your less attractive assets with choice of clothes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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itsApril

I don't usually like to comment on peoples' appearance.  But evaluating your photo from the standpoint of potential passibility in the future, I see two good features that stand out to me.

1.  Your eyebrows have a nice arched profile.

2.  You have REALLY pretty lips!  I especially like the profile of the upper lip.  No kidding, your lips will look great on you as a woman if you transition.

5'6" and 115 lbs is also a great natural asset for transition.  Lots of trans women struggle with a sense of being above the main range of female size, but you're right in the mainstream.

Why not change your gamertag from male to something neutral and see what effect that has?
-April
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Aaliyah

Thank you all for commenting!

Update: I went to go see a psychiatrist/therapist through Kaiser, and then went to a gender orientation. I don't really know exactly what it was for, it just talked about stuff I already knew. Now I have an appointment with specifically a gender therapist to do a gender assesment the end of next month!

Here is the link to pictures of me since the other one doesnt work any more http://imgur.com/a/o2pqB. They all range from wearing a little make up to none. I still have to present as male at the moment, and I am frowing out my hair. The length I have currently is after a year of growing it out (struggles of 3b/3C hair lol).

Also, does HRT help with reducing chin size. I've heard the fat redistribution does it a little bit, but to what extent? My chin, brow bone and facial hair are my big insecurrities.

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Sophia Sage

Quote from: Aaliyah on August 28, 2017, 12:27:00 PMHere is the link to pictures of me since the other one doesnt work any more http://imgur.com/a/o2pqB. They all range from wearing a little make up to none. I still have to present as male at the moment, and I am frowing out my hair. The length I have currently is after a year of growing it out (struggles of 3b/3C hair lol).

Also, does HRT help with reducing chin size. I've heard the fat redistribution does it a little bit, but to what extent? My chin, brow bone and facial hair are my big insecurrities.

HRT will not change your chin, brow, tracheal bump, or facial hair -- though it can help prevent new facial hair from growing. (I wouldn't worry so much about your brow, for while your forehead does have a measure of projection, the actual shape of it is round and smooth.)

If passing is your goal, getting facial hair removed should be your top priority, along with training your voice.  Voice is a huge component to passing, and it takes time to strengthen all those muscles.  Well, time and dedication -- the most effective voice practice is to record yourself and then playback to listen, and that unfortunately can really stir up one's dysphoria. 

Good luck with your therapy sessions!
What you look forward to has already come, but you do not recognize it.
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Aaliyah

Quote from: Sophia Sage on August 28, 2017, 07:20:36 PM
HRT will not change your chin, brow, tracheal bump, or facial hair -- though it can help prevent new facial hair from growing. (I wouldn't worry so much about your brow, for while your forehead does have a measure of projection, the actual shape of it is round and smooth.)

If passing is your goal, getting facial hair removed should be your top priority, along with training your voice.  Voice is a huge component to passing, and it takes time to strengthen all those muscles.  Well, time and dedication -- the most effective voice practice is to record yourself and then playback to listen, and that unfortunately can really stir up one's dysphoria. 

Good luck with your therapy sessions!

Thank you. I have changed my voice a bit. However, I have not had any formal voice rraining or music lessons. Attached is a video on youtube that I recorded when I was studying for my Biology class final, so it may sound like a bunch of nonsense. I want my voice to get higher, as of right now it has too much base. However, I somehow get gendered female on the phone and when I play videogames.

https:/               /youtu.be/             IUmwce4bhpQ
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Ashley3

Quote from: Aaliyah on August 28, 2017, 12:27:00 PM
... Also, does HRT help with reducing chin size. I've heard the fat redistribution does it a little bit, but to what extent? My chin, brow bone and facial hair are my big insecurrities.

HRT won't change your bones but can change the shape/feminize one's face to some degree given muscle mass and fat distribution can change... see http://www.virtualffs.co.uk/Hormonal_Effects.html for more info.

Quote from: Aaliyah on August 28, 2017, 10:41:50 PM
Thank you. I have changed my voice a bit. However, I have not had any formal voice rraining or music lessons. ...  I somehow get gendered female on the phone and when I play videogames. ...

Is the voice in that video 100% yours? I jumped to different parts, it was the same person so I think I heard you... Let me say... I am not a voice expert... but you have an amazingly passable voice! I didn't study each nuance or intonation... so my guess is there's always something you can learn by practicing... but I couldn't see any issues personally... quite excellent... I'm being 100% upfront when I say that I'd never have even thought twice about the voice on your video being anything other than a woman.

I agree with what others mentioned about hair removal and other non-surgical things like makeup, clothing and so forth. I avoided surgery at first... focused on makeup, clothes, non-surgical things... it's not uncommon to do that.
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Sophia Sage

Quote from: Aaliyah on August 28, 2017, 10:41:50 PM
Thank you. I have changed my voice a bit. However, I have not had any formal voice rraining or music lessons. Attached is a video on youtube that I recorded when I was studying for my Biology class final, so it may sound like a bunch of nonsense. I want my voice to get higher, as of right now it has too much base. However, I somehow get gendered female on the phone and when I play videogames.
https:/               /youtu.be/             IUmwce4bhpQ

You have a great voice -- while your pitch may be on the low end, you are still effectively varying your pitch naturally throughout your speaking, giving your voice a "musicality" that reflects how Western women speak.  That and your "resonance" (having your voice resonate in your head rather than in your chest) are what's getting you there. 

Keep up the good work!
What you look forward to has already come, but you do not recognize it.
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Aaliyah

Quote from: Ashley3 on August 29, 2017, 02:31:20 AM


Is the voice in that video 100% yours?

Yeah, that's my voice I use everyday going to work, school, ect. Also, I was the only one studying, so it is 100% my voice all throughout. I actually recorded for 18 minutes, but that's way too long to actually care to listen to.
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