'Stealth' / androgyne crossdressing

[Lunarite]

Feels like a really weird question, but hey:
Anyone with experience/tips on wearing women's clothing without it being obvious?

I'm pretty sure that might make little sense, so to give some context:
I'm male; I present and dress male. I hope to change both of those things, in time, but I'm not there yet.
The other day I decided to try on some skinny jeans; something I normally shy away from.
And when I saw myself, I thought, actually yeah, I could live with this. And yet something made me look more male - I'm going to say the low waistline, emphasising the length of the torso, lack of a waist.
I got to thinking, maybe I could actually introduce a handful of women's garments into my meagre wardrobe, without it really being obvious.
Maybe I could shift my form a little to the feminine, or at least less masculine.
I don't expect to actually look female, just to offset my body a bit, go a bit androgyne perhaps*.

I don't intend to pad a bra, or tuck. Sure, there'll be a nasty bulge that I personally dislike, but that's pretty much normal for tight clothing even for men, so it wouldn't be weird**.
That said, I'm concerned that things could be uncomfortably tight downstairs, or that tops would look weirdly slack where breasts aren't.

Firstly, does anyone have any thoughts on this? What can I get away with/what is practical***?
Not totally sure this is the right place for it, but it seemed the best shot.

Secondly, is this just really weird? I'd be interested if anyone, of any gender or inclination, has had similar thoughts. I can't decide whether this is outright strange, or blatantly common.


* Why? Partly to feel 'right'. Even if no-one else notices, I would notice. Even though anything I wore would be fairly androgyne, even though I'd have to steer clear of anything that made me aware of disparities in the crotch/chest departments, it'd still be more right. But also partly because, at some point, I intend to transition, and perhaps I can soften it a bit in this regard, make it a gentler change for me and those around me.

** Though there's probably a difference between garments cut for that bulge, and those that aren't. The presence of a bulge is one thing, but no-one wants to see detail.

*** If it makes a difference, I'm skinny as hell, not feminine/pretty at all (), and so far have been very much middle-of-the-road jeans-and-t-shirt please-don't-notice-my-body.

[Dena]

It's not uncommon on this site for member to underdress - wearing feminine undergarment with male garments on the outside. They also start with exterior wear as a way to slowly transition and switch their wardrobe over. Jeans often just have cut differences and sometimes female jeans fit our member betters than male jeans. Funny thing with jeans is sometimes the male cuts fit FTMs better than the female cuts. It seems like sometimes even pre HRT our body is giving us away.

As for tops, sometimes the difference is minor like a difference in the neck line. In the winter, turtle necks would be a good unisex option that would never be questioned. Also in the winter, members going both directions often wear hoodies which would cover any dress you might desire including a developing chest.

There is nothing wrong with mixing and match as it's a pretty common activity around here.

[SueNZ]

I wear dresses, pantyhose, panties and bras under my work clothes. My toes are always painted and I have clear polish on my finger nails. A light application of mascara and some light eyeshadow. This is my normal week day dress and the only person that notices is my wife. I have also started wearing breast forms to work and they are not noticeable under my overalls.
In the weekend, I have been starting to wear womens cut jeans and again as far as I know only my wife knows.
I have a lot of very feminine tops that I wear under my casual shirts and since I will not be coming out or transitioning this is enough for me. I would love to be able to wear female clothing all the time and in full view but my circumstances do not let me fulfil this desire.
A lot of comments that I have read on this site say that if someone does notice they don't really care and normally do not say anything. I would say just do what you feel comfortable with and enjoy the small rushes of excitement from pushing your comfort zone.

[Sonja]

@Lunarite
1) It is blatantly common for many different people to cross dress - even my mother in law is currently wearing a pair of mens shorts for some reason.

2) Excellent clothing choices for stealth and starting out -
    underwear - go for boyleg - lots of colour choices and looks great - and should actually cover your bits - a lot of bikini shapes wont do that. All of my underwear is womens boyleg BUT for spousal reasons its not lacy or overly femme IE bright pink flowers with more pink etc etc, BUT it is still very nice stuff I have  - girls underwear is so much better than guys - hands down!
   Crop tops, bralettes - excellent for getting some femme - bra's have straps with a slight bulge on the back for adjusting that can be a give away so stay away from them unless your wearing something thick enough to hide that.
  Girls shirts - girls shirts are cut to taper in at the waist and often have shorter sleeves BUT to allow yourself an androgynous pass find ones with crew neck - IE normal round  - avoid scoop neck, v-neck etc otherwise it will give it away quickly that its a girls shirt.
  girls jeans - a high waisted jean is a giveaway but all other styles are shared between both genders these days so anything goes - I personally love skinny jeans - black, and blue - which look great with different shoes, heels etc.
  nail polish - you can get away with wearing black nail polish without raising too many eyebrows but other colours will break stealth completely. I have long natural nails, rounded ends, I sometimes wear black nail polish but only around my wife or at certain parties.
  stockings - you could wear them under long pants BUT whats the point? and you'll get too hot. I'm currently wearing a gorgeous pair of Jonathan Astons  'Aurora spot' tights with a short pleated black skirt and black and white striped t-shirt, plus grey flecked white jumper - its winter here in NZ and today its COLD.
  shorts - short shorts - to show off your legs! with the right style you can get away with it.
  socks - there are plenty of girls socks that can be for anyone, most of my socks are womens.
  makeup  -while a makeover will give you away, a small amount of mascara will accentuate your eyes without people being able to pick out whether its natural or not - hence pass. Make sure after you apply it to gently wipe of excess and use a eyelash brush to separate the clumping effect so the hairs sit separated.

well that should get you started....lol

Take care,

Sonja.

[RobynD]

I became gradually more feminine over a course of years. The ideas on this thread are spot on. Jeans, jackets, shoes such as boots and oxfords can all be fairly stealthily feminine Underwear usually makes a big difference. Even going to v-neck t-shirts in warm weather is slightly more feminine than a crew neck.

Modest sort of beauty products like clear polish, lip gloss is pretty under the radar too.

[randim]

No one should be nervous about underwear.  It is private and your beeswax what you want next to your skin.  You can certainly find pants, tops, shoes that are pretty neutral.  It is tough to fool women though.  I went grocery shopping last weekend with bermuda shorts, a plain black crewneck tee and flip-flop sandals.  And a couple of other women shoppers read me, I'm sure of it.

[Lunarite]

Thanks for the suggestions!

I have tried wearing women's underwear before, and frankly it was just uncomfortable. Partly down to the style chosen, I'm sure - surely no-one of any configuration wants a seam up the front? But until I actually have a need to wear it, I'm not keen - it reminds me unpleasantly of what I have that I shouldn't. Ideally, stuff should be held in place - jiggling or shifting is just, ugh (cannot overstate). See, here's a market for a different kind of support underwear!

Conversely, I can see the appeal of a bra or, rather, something bra-like. I'm less bothered about what I don't have that I should, as it were! But then, it's so unnecessary! I imagine many (most?) flat-chested cis women who could get away with it wouldn't bother. And depending on where I get to, maybe I wouldn't. I did check - unsurprisingly, there's no market for bras for those without breasts!

I often wear tights (pantyhose) in the colder months as a warmth layer, but also I just really like the body-hugging feel (tip for those male-shaped, seams on some can be better if worn backwards). I only wish such a thing existed as a top (which it probably does, but I am ignorant). I'd rather wear something like that as loungewear rather than loose clothing.

I used to go in for women's jeans, back at the cusp of me knowing what I was. Then, though, bootcuts did me no favours, they combined terribly with men's shirts, and they were rather, ahem, tighter in the front than I'd like. In the intervening years, skinny jeans have become more the norm for men; just a matter of choosing the right ones.

I used to have painted nails on and off until only a couple of years ago. Seemed people were happy with the explanation that I liked doing nail art, which is true. When I could pretend (to myself as well as others) that I was just a cis man with an eccentric affectation, it was fine. Now I feel it'd be like my trans-ness was showing - fine as one, fine as the other, weird in-between (as with so much, I suppose).
Other make-up, well, not worried yet. If I could conceal acne, that'd be great, but my attempts to date have been less than stellar.

I'll look into tops. I was unlikely to go for anything with a lower neckline yet anyway, as my skin isn't great (maybe HRT will help a little there, fingers crossed). Waist emphasis might not be bad in general - I'm skinny and small-chested enough that most men's shirts drape formlessly.
Turtle necks are a good call for colder months, Dena - I like the idea anyway, and it's something else to obscure the adam's apple a bit.
Light jackets might be a good idea too, Robyn. Leaving one undone might well strike a good middle ground. Plus, I could really do with some layering anyway (well, in a couple of months).

I've realised the many contradictions in my thinking. I want to look more female, but not too much. I want to wear clothing fitted for women, but don't like how I don't fit. Eh, we'll see. Confidence in it is so often the main thing, which will admittedly be a problem to start.

Next step, working out how to shop. It's great that online stores exist, but not even knowing what women's sizes would work to start. I don't want to be the one returning the majority of what I buy! Size guides are little help - from what I've seen, it's one size to fit waist, a totally different one for hips, though realistically there'd be a size that does the job. Anyway, this is a different topic!

[Maid Marion]

Women's dress shirts have the buttons on the opposite side.  They also vary in style from identical to men's to those having lots of feminine embellishments.

As you are thin, you may want to wear form fitting T shirts cut for women.

One approach to choosing clothes is to first figure out your body type, based on measurements made with a tape measure.  I am lucky enough to have a rectangular body type, which means I have little trouble finding clothes that fit.  Write down those measurements and use them to buy stuff on ebay.  If you look at used clothing sellers will often take the time to measure the clothes they sell. And take the clothes back if they make an error.

[Lunarite]

@Maid Marion, The opposite buttons thing is mildly amusing to me - quite meaningless really, but I bet almost no-one (male, anyway*) would notice, despite it being a dead giveaway if they did.
I'm always self-conscious in buttoned shirts - I hate the gaps between the buttons. Always want to wear a layer over and/or under it to stop it being seen through. Really not the season for that right now.
I like the boring shirt and jumper look, à la CW's Supergirl**. People are used to seeing me in that occasionally anyway; might be an easy route to go down. Round collars are interesting if I can find some that aren't too overtly girly - they remind me of Peter Pan collars.

I'm also considering neck scarves. It's a maybe slightly eccentric garment for a man, but not unheard-of. There's a man in my office who wears light cravats. Also something that definitely has no fun with sizes!

Damn it, when autumn comes I'll have many ideas to consider; fewer in the heat!

Just re-evaluated @Dena's post:
"sometimes female jeans fit our member betters than male jeans"
I read this to have a different meaning that the one I think was intended! I was a little surprised that women's tailoring could be so accommodating...

* Feels like some stereotyping at work here. Maybe some projection mixed in - I can be awfully unobservant.

** And how well-timed a reference, given the recent headline.

[Jean57]

I underdress all the time now, wear panties 24/7, to work I wear black 40 denier hold ups or tights when it is colder and a bra.  My jean now are all female stretch jeans as I find they fit so much better than my old male jeans, also wear female ankle boots with my jeans with 2" heels and I'm 6ft 4" tall in bare feet.

Jean x