The importance of defining between neutrois and agender

[pastel_gray]

Hello!

I want to start a thread for neutrois people, by neutrois people, to show the important differences between neutrois and agender people. Why?

Because everywhere I go online to find solidarity, or ideas, or support for neutrois people, most of what I find is binary trans people asking about it, enby people who aren't neutrois making up definitions (sometimes transphobic af to neutrois, realized or not), usually based on bias and stereotypes, or agender folks who don't identify with or have no concept of gender saying we're related or the same as adgrogenous (we're not).

Neutrois isn't necessarily about nullifying all sex characteristics, it's not about striving for an adgrogenous/male leaning gender expression. Neutrois is a gender all of its own that has defining characteristics, and many of us are also from the autistic communities, which makes intersectional issues VERY important to many of us. This isn't to be confused with genders based off autism, which is a separate community of its own. Those afflicted with PCOS are also often in this community, though it is not because of the PCOS itself, but rather how it affects people with ovaries and how it communicates w one's pituitary gland. It is also being hotly debated as a very possible intersex condition, which would help so many of us afflicted with it be more understood. Neutrois isn't an aesthetic, rather, it is largely based upon things like hormonal influences/inbalances in the womb, how autistic people see EVERYTHING, including gender, as a spectrum, hormone inbalances during puberty and formative years, and so much more.

Thank you for reading. Any neutrois folx out there feel me, or wanna contribute, please contact me!

[Jacqueline]

pastel-gray

Welcome to the site. Thank you for your thorough descriptions and definitions. I am one of the binary trans folks you referred to. After reading your post about three times and then reading through much of http://neutrois.com/ I started to get the general idea.

This interests me. My oldest child (20 now) identifies as non-binary. These definitions and descriptions make me think that they may well be neutrois.

I also wanted to welcome you to the site. In doing that, I will share some links with you. They are for newly posting members. They welcome and lay out the site and it's polices. So, please take a look.

Please feel free to stop by the Introductions Forum to tell the members about yourself!

If you are one of our younger members, please stop by the Youth Introductions Forum and get acquainted with us all!

Things that you should read

Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By	Standard Terms & Definitions	Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar)	Cautionary Note
Reputation rules	News posting & quoting guidelines	Photo, avatars, & signature images policy	Membership Agreement

[/quote]


Look around. Introduce your self in our Non-Binary introductions and join in.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,108501.0.html
Don't be afraid to ask questions if you need to.

Welcome to Susans
Warmly,
Jacqui

[Northern Star Girl]

@pastel_gray
Dear Pastel_Gray:
Thank you for your interesting and detailed posting regarding your description of the important differences between neutrois and agender people. 
Many of our members will now be aware of your arrival to the Forums and will be able to share with you and you with them regarding your questions and comments.

I see that you have already been Officially Welcomed to Susan's Place
by our lovely member @Jacqueline

Please allow me to also give your a warm Welcome to Susan's Place.
I am thinking that you may have lots more questions and concerns, this is the right place for you to be to find out what others have done that may have been in your circumstances.
Be aware that there are a lot of members here that can identify with your situation..
 
You will find this a safe and friendly place to share with others  and to read about others similar trials, tribulations, and successes.  When frustrated or if you have successes you can share it here on the Forums if you wish and receive support from others and offer support to others. ....

***It's a very good chance that you might find that you will make some new friends here. 
Please come in and continue to be involved at your own pace. 

In her Welcome Message  Jacqueline  included Important LINKS that will tell you about Susan's Place.  Included there is information about the site that will help you navigate around and best utilize the features here.   
Please look closely at the LINKS in RED, answers are there to many questions that new members ask.   

Please don't be a stranger on the forums, we want to share postings and thoughts with you.

Again, Welcome to Susan's Place.
Danielle

NOTE:  As Jacqueline suggested in her welcome message to you please  stop by the Introductions Forum  to tell the members about yourself!

If you are one of our younger members, please stop by the Youth Introductions Forum Forum and get acquainted with us all!

[Sno]

Welcome to the enby page, and to our community.

Come join us in the forest


(Hugs)


Rowan

[Asche]

Sorry, but I'm not at all clear on the definitions of either neutrois or agender.

I mean, I don't identify as any gender (though I live more or less as a woman), but I have no clue about the finer distinctions.

[Devlyn]

Hello!

I want to start a thread for neutrois people, by neutrois people, to show the important differences between neutrois and agender people. Why?

Because everywhere I go online to find solidarity, or ideas, or support for neutrois people, most of what I find is binary trans people asking about it, enby people who aren't neutrois making up definitions (sometimes transphobic af to neutrois, realized or not), usually based on bias and stereotypes, or agender folks who don't identify with or have no concept of gender saying we're related or the same as adgrogenous (we're not).

Neutrois isn't necessarily about nullifying all sex characteristics, it's not about striving for an adgrogenous/male leaning gender expression. Neutrois is a gender all of its own that has defining characteristics, and many of us are also from the autistic communities, which makes intersectional issues VERY important to many of us. This isn't to be confused with genders based off autism, which is a separate community of its own. Those afflicted with PCOS are also often in this community, though it is not because of the PCOS itself, but rather how it affects people with ovaries and how it communicates w one's pituitary gland. It is also being hotly debated as a very possible intersex condition, which would help so many of us afflicted with it be more understood. Neutrois isn't an aesthetic, rather, it is largely based upon things like hormonal influences/inbalances in the womb, how autistic people see EVERYTHING, including gender, as a spectrum, hormone inbalances during puberty and formative years, and so much more.

Thank you for reading. Any neutrois folx out there feel me, or wanna contribute, please contact me!

Hello to you, too! Like Asche, I'm not clear on the definitions, but I don't need to understand someone to accept them.

To your other points, we see lots of people, even here, that don't understand what non-binary is. As long as they're not demanding that I provide evidence to validate my identity sufficiently to them (and I have seen it happen), we're good. 

See you around the site!

Hugs, Devlyn

[Sno]

A friend says to you, that they aren't a girl, or a boy, in fact they can't identify with much of gender at all, having no clear sense of gender they would be tending towards agender - it's our sense of having gender, that defines agender - neither of the formal binary, and no sense of being gendered within themselves.

Another friend says, that they aren't a boy or girl either, but they have a strong sense that they are 'something', just the words haven't been created yet for it - again it's our sense of gender that defines neutrois - neither of the formal binary, and yet being a beautiful creature with a strong sense of gender within themselves.

Hopefully that makes sense?

Rowan

[Cailan Jerika]

So, to continue the concept explanation, what would be the difference between neutrois and androgyne?

I'm non-binary, but of the bi-gender type, fully male and fully female in turn (and sometimes at the same time, but separate within myself), and I really don't understand some of the the genders that aren't based on the male-female binary (the purples between the pinks and blues). I understand the basic concept of agender (no gender) which is simple, and androgyne, which is a blend of male and female, but I've never been able to understand if neutrois and androgyne are synonyms, or different things.

[Sno]

Hi Cailan,

From our perspective, they are clear and distinct - androgyne presentation is being able to be "in the middle ground" able to slip quietly across the fence between masculinity and femininity, as needed or desired (some folk dont feel any fluidity, but do live in that space). Neutrois is in our experience, a feeling that we are not masculine or feminine, or androgynous, but are some kind of gender, that we are something, but it isn't any of the above. So as such it's a feeling for us that we are gendered, but it is not one of the binary scale genders (we are including androgynous in that spectrum)

Hopefully that makes sense?

Rowan

[Cailan Jerika]

To be clear from my experience, "androgynous" is a presentation, "androgyne" is a gender, claimed by a number of my friends (pronounced "andro-gyne"). They say they are not neutrois, they are androgyne, a blend of male and female, somewhere in the middle, a mix, elements of both male and female. I never understood how neutrois is different, or what neutrois was, exactly. I understand the difference after your explanation of neutrois.

http://gender.wikia.com/wiki/Androgyne

[Sno]

Cailan,

Androgynous is the experience of an androgyne, androgenous is presenting in a manner that is a blend of both masculine and feminine..that pesky 'e' makes a world of difference, but we know where you were coming from..

(Hugs)


Rowan

[Angelic]

I don't know anything about neutroisism. But I do think you may be on to something here. I think autism, is kind of like a gender of its own, or its own kind of autism gender, sort of like female leaning but with male qualities. I met some autistic people before. They told me they wish they were anime girls but there's nothing they can do.

[Cailan Jerika]

My son has autism, and is a VERY cis guy, his gender identity is not at all affected by his autism. He is baffled by the idea of being anything but cis male, and struggles to understand my non-binary gender.  Similarly my mom is autistic, and has similar struggles with the idea of anyone identifying as anything but cis. I'm  stuck in the middle between them, a bi-gender neuro-typical.