Physiology of progesterone and no T Blockers

[KristySims]

Approaching my one year HRT birthday May 21st (I incorrectly posted April 21st elsewhere oopsy)

Anyway, I was reading  Ricki Wright's post I figured out where the weight went!!! (Loved it!)https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,246376.0.html and was reading some of the girls talking about starting E before blockers.

(I didn't want to thread hijack) so ever since I started HRT it took about 4 months to get the right dosage to normal CIS E and T levels. I however have never had to take T blockers only progesterone (Oral) and Estradiol (IM) and my pre-HRT  Testosterone was over 400 and after the first month, my T has and always has been near or at 0 ZERO. My Dr said that was her standard regime (E and P) and that the progesterone counteracts the Testosterone .... I have not really found any physiology on how this works, but it has. To-Date I have had no procedures or anything other than Progesterone once day and my IM every 2 weeks and my levels are where they are supposed to be with no T registering on blood tests.   

Kris

[JanePlain]

Approaching my one year HRT birthday May 21st (I incorrectly posted April 21st elsewhere oopsy)

Anyway, I was reading  Ricki Wright's post I figured out where the weight went!!! (Loved it!)https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,246376.0.html and was reading some of the girls talking about starting E before blockers.

(I didn't want to thread hijack) so ever since I started HRT it took about 4 months to get the right dosage to normal CIS E and T levels. I however have never had to take T blockers only progesterone (Oral) and Estradiol (IM) and my pre-HRT  Testosterone was over 400 and after the first month, my T has and always has been near or at 0 ZERO. My Dr said that was her standard regime (E and P) and that the progesterone counteracts the Testosterone .... I have not really found any physiology on how this works, but it has. To-Date I have had no procedures or anything other than Progesterone once day and my IM every 2 weeks and my levels are where they are supposed to be with no T registering on blood tests.   

Kris

I'm curious if you really mean zero testosterone?  Or are you saying normal female levels of testosterone?  There are some good threads about how most m2f women loose sex drive if they have abnormally low testosterone levels.  And I think there is some interesting information about mood and energy that maybe related.  I have a male relative who has advanced prostate cancer and if I understand correctly large doses of estrogen lowered his testosterone to castrate levels of testosterone.  Or I might have it wrong.  It might be that after castration he was given large doses of estrogen?

[Devlyn]

Yeah, I'm wondering the same thing. Women aren't supposed to have zero T.

[CindyLouFromCO]

Approaching my one year HRT birthday May 21st (I incorrectly posted April 21st elsewhere oopsy)

Anyway, I was reading  Ricki Wright's post I figured out where the weight went!!! (Loved it!)https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,246376.0.html and was reading some of the girls talking about starting E before blockers.

(I didn't want to thread hijack) so ever since I started HRT it took about 4 months to get the right dosage to normal CIS E and T levels. I however have never had to take T blockers only progesterone (Oral) and Estradiol (IM) and my pre-HRT  Testosterone was over 400 and after the first month, my T has and always has been near or at 0 ZERO. My Dr said that was her standard regime (E and P) and that the progesterone counteracts the Testosterone .... I have not really found any physiology on how this works, but it has. To-Date I have had no procedures or anything other than Progesterone once day and my IM every 2 weeks and my levels are where they are supposed to be with no T registering on blood tests.   

Kris

My understanding is that Progesterone helps keep the E levels high or stable for a longer period of time with estrogen suppression occurring when E levels are over 200.

I've also read that Progesterone has a AA affect. 

I don't know why, but it does work for most.  I've only had IM estradiol and micronized Progesterone for the past three years or so.  My T levels are at a normal cis woman levels in the 30's.

I'm curious what your doctor says about your question. 

You may want to look at Beverly Cosgrove web site on m2f HRT.  She may have a good explanation to your question.  Or Dr. Powers >-bleeped-< page thing.

[KristySims]

Here were my levels Dec-Feb so not zero but <3 seems about my "normal" and my sex drive is pretty "normal"   

12/6/18  TESTOSTERONE, SERUM ng/dl  <3
12/22/18  TESTOSTERONE, SERUM ng/dl  7
2/22/19  TESTOSTERONE, SERUM ng/dl  <3

12/6/18 Estradiol Level 789 pg/ml
12/22/18 Estradiol Level 581 pg/ml
12/22/19 Estradiol Level 332 pg/ml

[CindyLouFromCO]

Here were my levels Dec-Feb so not zero but <3 seems about my "normal" and my sex drive is pretty "normal"   

12/6/18  TESTOSTERONE, SERUM ng/dl  <3
12/22/18  TESTOSTERONE, SERUM ng/dl  7
2/22/19  TESTOSTERONE, SERUM ng/dl  <3

12/6/18 Estradiol Level 789 pg/ml
12/22/18 Estradiol Level 581 pg/ml
12/22/19 Estradiol Level 332 pg/ml

Good E levels!

Make sure they don't get to high or you can get the pregnant marks some cis women get.  You can see the brown marks on my forehead in this pic.  It's called Melasma.

I'm trying to get rid of them now.  I've had them over a year now.  I have to stay out of the sun, wear a hat, sunscreen and take retna A. 




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[josie76]

If I had all of my notes I could explain it. What I remember off hand is that progesterone provides feedback for one regulating system and estradiol provides feedback for the other. Those being the FSH and LSH hormone signal loops.


On the other subject, progesterone has kept sexual drive possible for me. My T after orchi is undetectable (<3 ng/dl) and erectile activity is possible but I can't say its enjoyable for me.

[josie76]

Good E levels!

Make sure they don't get to high or you can get the pregnant marks some cis women get.  You can see the brown marks on my forehead in this pic.  It's called Melasma.

I'm trying to get rid of them now.  I've had them over a year now.  I have to stay out of the sun, wear a hat, sunscreen and take retna A. 

I wonder, I have an area on my upper cheek like that.

[Kate.claire]

Anecdotally, I've seen complete reduction of T just to around 10 ng/ml without ever taking blockers or P.  So you may not have needed the P for the reduction.  Mine was wiped out as soon as I took my first post-HRT blood work at 3 months I think.  E levels have been around 400,  currently ratcheting back to get them in the 200s.  We'll see how I've done in June for my 9 month test.  7.5 months in,  can't say I've had any miraculous results so far in any particular area, but given my decidedly male features, not sure I should expect much.  In my more despondent moments, I have wondered if there wasn't some other blocker benefit I'm missing that has kept me from seeing changes.

[herekitten]

I've experienced the Melasma associated with the high estrogen.  I have tried many products from super expensive to cheap to holistic. The one product that I have found truly has an effect at greatly reducing it is Dermologica's Biolumin Vitamin C. They have a line of product geared towards the pigmentation. For me, it had excellent results. Slow by excellent. Just a thought 

[pamelatransuk]

Kristy

Thank you very much for this interesting Progesterone thread. I just thought you may be interested (if you've not already seen it) in this Progesterone thread:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,245188.0.html


CindyLou/Herekitten

Thank you very much for your advice on Melasma.

I started Progesterone March 17th and will see my Blood Test results in June (which will then be 16 months HRT in total).

Hugs

Pamela 

[CindyLouFromCO]

I've experienced the Melasma associated with the high estrogen.  I have tried many products from super expensive to cheap to holistic. The one product that I have found truly has an effect at greatly reducing it is Dermologica's Biolumin Vitamin C. They have a line of product geared towards the pigmentation. For me, it had excellent results. Slow by excellent. Just a thought 

I need to try that!  Thank you [emoji846]

We should probably start a thread on this topic so we don't takeover her thread.


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[KristySims]

Lol  take over, it's okay

[KristySims]

Kristy

Thank you very much for this interesting Progesterone thread. I just thought you may be interested (if you've not already seen it) in this Progesterone thread:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,245188.0.html

Thanks Pamela!  This site is SO big that it's easy to get lost

[AnneK]

Thanks Pamela!  This site is SO big that it's easy to get lost

Yeah, we need GPS to find our way around!   

[Ricki Wright]

@KristySimsx

Approaching my one year HRT birthday May 21st (I incorrectly posted April 21st elsewhere oopsy)

Anyway, I was reading  Ricki Wright's post I figured out where the weight went!!! (Loved it!)https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,246376.0.html and was reading some of the girls talking about starting E before blockers.

(I didn't want to thread hijack) so ever since I started HRT it took about 4 months to get the right dosage to normal CIS E and T levels. I however have never had to take T blockers only progesterone (Oral) and Estradiol (IM) and my pre-HRT  Testosterone was over 400 and after the first month, my T has and always has been near or at 0 ZERO. My Dr said that was her standard regime (E and P) and that the progesterone counteracts the Testosterone .... I have not really found any physiology on how this works, but it has. To-Date I have had no procedures or anything other than Progesterone once day and my IM every 2 weeks and my levels are where they are supposed to be with no T registering on blood tests.   

Kris

Hey Girl!

Awww!! I am glad you liked it, and you can hijack any thread of mine you like

Once I get insurance again, talking to my gyn about maybe switching from Spiro to Progesterone.
Thoughts?

Hugs!

Ricki

[KristySims]

@KristySimsx[/member
Once I get insurance again, talking to my gyn about maybe switching from Spiro to Progesterone.
Thoughts?

Hey Ricki!

Well,  I don't think it would hurt to try and one thing I learned... albeit the wrong way,  is that Progesterone is pretty cheap to buy (Self medicated prior to seeking proper medical care) So I dunno if that helps or not. I won't even get into some of the medical benefits from it, although with ANY medication we all need to be vigilant with symptoms and levels which sounds like you definitely went the proper way yourself   If you didn't already read it, Pamela's  link a few posts back was an awesome read!

[pamelatransuk]

Thank you Kris. I am glad you appreciated it.

It is a very long read (link above and it is here on HRT Board of course) but has so much information and the scientific information is recent (January 2019).

Hugs to all

Pamela  xx

[Ricki Wright]

Hey Ricki!

Well,  I don't think it would hurt to try and one thing I learned... albeit the wrong way,  is that Progesterone is pretty cheap to buy (Self medicated prior to seeking proper medical care) So I dunno if that helps or not. I won't even get into some of the medical benefits from it, although with ANY medication we all need to be vigilant with symptoms and levels which sounds like you definitely went the proper way yourself   If you didn't already read it, Pamela's  link a few posts back was an awesome read!

That...was a whole unicorn stables worth of reading. Between the Power points from Dr. Powers mentioned by the amazing @Steph2.0, and Additional thanks to @Jessica for the progesterone thread and @Pamela for bringing attention to this thread!

I have a lot to discuss with my obgyn the next time I have the opportunity.

I would love to get off spiro, and it appears that by using Progesterone with injectable Estradiol it might be possible.

Thank you very much,

Ricki

Here is the link to the full report from the Progesterone Is Important for Transgender Women's Therapy
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,245188.msg2234731.html#msg2234731

Report cited:https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/104/4/1181/5270376

To find Dr. Powers power points (say that 10 times fast!), google or search "Dr. Powers 5.0", then follow the link to his Facebook page which will have a google drive link to them.

[TonyaW]

I was going to say look up Dr Powers.  Had I been aware of his presentation when I started HRT I would have shown my doctor.  I'm doing well with the standard spiro/oral estradiol and am looking at GCS hopefully in December or January so don't really need to switch.

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