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Started by Melody Rich, February 03, 2024, 05:48:21 AM

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Melody Rich

There is a transwoman at the place where I buy coffee.  She's quite tall and is easily clocked, but I love her style and regardless she looks so feminine and pretty.

I really want to introduce myself, but I don't know how without making her feel strange.

I am quite jealous of her, because she's out and wears the cutest outfits, and looks so feminine.

Any suggestions?
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Devlyn

Never, never assume that someone is trans or wants to be identified as such.

That's all the suggestions I have.

Hugs, Devlyn

Sarah B

#2
Hi Melody

Quote from: Devlyn on February 03, 2024, 06:21:12 AMNever, never assume that someone is trans or wants to be identified as such.

That's all the suggestions I have.

Hugs, Devlyn

This a thousand times over.  You can talk to the person, if the situation arises and you can become her friend over time.  However, you never ever talk about her 'medical condition', whatsoever.  If she brings up the situation herself and her past, then and only then can you talk about yours.

If and only if, you are talking about transgender topics, then you can say you are supportive of such people.  This will allow this person to open up, if she so wishes.

I know it sounds harsh.  It's similar to this situation.  A stranger never comes up and starts talking about your sex life.  It is basically never done.

This is the polite way of dealing with these situations and shows a sign of respect to the other person.

Best wishes and take care
Sarah B



Be who you want to be.
Sarah's Story
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Northern Star Girl

@Melody Rich    cc: @Devlyn  @Sarah B
Dear Melody Rich:  
Devlyn is correct....
...it is kinda like looking at a woman that appears to be pregnant.
Imagine then if you ask when it the baby due
and then you find out that she is not pregnant....     
NOT Good to assume.
HUGS, Danielle
Quote from: Devlyn on February 03, 2024, 06:21:12 AMNever, never assume that someone is trans or wants to be identified as such.

That's all the suggestions I have.

Hugs, Devlyn
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Kay226

#4
My daughter, who was born female and is all girl, has been called sir when she is on the phone at her work. This leaves her in tears. Her voice is medium tone, not really deep like a man.

Be careful what you say to people.
Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?
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Sarah B

Hi Kay

You mentioned:

Quote from: Kay226 on February 03, 2024, 11:28:07 AMMy daughter, who was born female and is all girl, has been called sir when she is on the phone at her work. This leaves her in tears. Her voice is medium tone, not really deep like a man.

Be careful what you say to people.

Show your daughter the following list of females who have a deep voice, I know you mentioned medium tone.

  • Shohreh Aghdashloo
  • Julia Stiles
  • Cher
  • Katy Perry
  • Beyoncé
  • Adele
  • Whitney Houston
  • Alicia Keys
  • Amy Winehouse
  • Annie Lennox
  • Tracy Chapman
  • Lady Gaga

Female voices are so varied.  Comfort her on this or voice training.

Best wishes and hugs
Sarah B
PS A good article on The Female Voice: From Girl to Woman
Be who you want to be.
Sarah's Story

TXSara

Quote from: Melody Rich on February 03, 2024, 05:48:21 AMThere is a transwoman at the place where I buy coffee.  She's quite tall and is easily clocked, but I love her style and regardless she looks so feminine and pretty.

I really want to introduce myself, but I don't know how without making her feel strange.

I am quite jealous of her, because she's out and wears the cutest outfits, and looks so feminine.

Any suggestions?

The best thing I have found to do is wear a transgender symbol pendant on my necklace.  If she's transgender, she'll notice it.  Of course, that means you'd have to be OK with OTHER people noticing it as well...

~Sara
My Latest Blog Thread:  Sara's Wild Ride (Part II)


ChrissyRyan

I would not mention the transgender topic to her if you decide to chat.
I would not assume she is transgender.

There are some people that I see who could be transgender but they may not be so.

If someone came up to me out of the blue and said to me that I look transgender, I might look back at them as if they had three heads, that is, I would be struck by their gall.  I would wonder why they wanted to talk.  Maybe they just wanted to talk with a transgender person. 

This stems from simply wanting to be perceived as a woman, treated as a woman, and not as someone who wants to become a woman.  Maybe they are curious and no threat but this would be an akward situation with someone I do not know at all.

Likewise, I do not want a friend to introduce me, to anyone I do not know, as a transgender woman, but simply as Chrissy.  Even if that other person is transgender.  That transgender topic may be discussed sometime in the future though. 

I suppose I will always be transgender, and that is okay. Being transgender is not bad.  However I am a woman.  Plus there is a lot more to me than my gender.  Thank goodness.


Chrissy
Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.
Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Be brave, be strong.  Try a little kindness.  I am a brown eyed brunette. 

SashaXtina

QuoteThere is a transwoman at the place where I buy coffee.  She's quite tall and is easily clocked, but I love her style and regardless she looks so feminine and pretty.

I really want to introduce myself, but I don't know how without making her feel strange.

I am quite jealous of her, because she's out and wears the cutest outfits, and looks so feminine.

Any suggestions?

Apologies in advance for the long, detailed reply! Thanks for sharing this and asking this forum instead of taking it upon yourself to make assumptions and just blatantly "ask something" simply because you're curious! I couldn't agree more with all of the responses here, the main one being never make assumptions. You could certainly be right, but you could also be wrong, and then both parties involved could wind up hurt. Nobody wants that!

Just to preface: I'm in the USA (Ohio, to be exact) and it's a bit different for me since I am a transwoman and that can make it a bit easier to approach the subject (and I don't mind sharing that about myself or educating anyone about it — I wear it on my sleeve even if I'm not "clocked" — since I'm getting older and really don't care what others think of me, just what I think of myself, haha — but this is surely not the case for everyone!). Ironically, I used to manage a Starbucks and also worked at another (local) coffeeshop in my early 20s for a few years (basically, a few years after coming out myself). I only mention all this to say that I have had many conversations about being trans specifically (i.e., my journey) and in general, and also have encountered both uplifting and disparaging remarks about it.

Again, I applaud you for being sensitive enough to ask this question here first. If you can't do it in a forum full of trans people, where can you do it? Ha ... Anyway, I've been asked this question a lot of times by cis/straight/het-norm friends of mine when they want to display their allyship or show kindness and support or even become acquaintances with someone they think may be trans or nonbinary, etc. either because they work with them, see them often (which seems to be your situation), or serve them in a restaurant or store often, etc.

This may require several conversations over the course of time, which I recommend, but my best advice to my friends and to you is to simply introduce yourself with a simple follow-up — like, "Hi, I'm Sasha, and I just wanted to introduce myself since I've seen you in here a lot and I also come here a lot." It's innocuous and the other person typically reciprocates. Then, based off of how they respond and their tone, you could begin a conversation with a general statement, like, "I really enjoy the atmosphere here, how about you?" and then possibly an uplifting statement regarding them, like, "Oh, and by the way, I really wanted to let you know how much I admire your style!" (I've also worked in retail for many years and honestly never encountered a person who doesn't like hearing praise like that, especially when it's a blanket compliment like that which comes across as honest and heartfelt.  :) )

There are SO many things to talk about before the gender discussion is even raised (and a little self-deprecation never hurts), like, "I'm a pretty basic customer and always order a regular coffee. Do you have a favorite drink (or food item, etc.) here? What do you typically like to order?" Follow the conversation. Depending on their reception of you, you could segue into something like, "I really like your necklace (or blouse, etc. — nothing that isn't visibly presented, mind you). May I ask where you got it?" (Just try not to come across as "creepy" and just let the conversation flow naturally. If things are going well, you'll most likely be able to sense it.) Or, rather, you could save this for your next conversation (same with what I said above about liking their style) since you mentioned you see them a lot at this coffeeshop. Again, I'd definitely suggest that. Essentially, after you've established a basic rapport with them, that's when it's okay to start with the "particulars." Conversations generally flow more easily over time, especially after the person has gotten to know a bit about you, so I really do encourage you to go about this after a series of brief conversations while opening up a bit about yourself along the way. Being as open as you can about yourself invites the other person to let down their guard and can lead to a sense of comfortability.

If they introduce themselves back to you and engage further in conversation for a bit, or after the course of a few conversations (which once again, I highly suggest since you see them often), then (in my humble opinion) I'd imagine it's pretty safe to say that you can politely ask what pronouns they use, provided you do so with an accompanying statement like, "I don't mean to overstep here. I'm only asking because I would never want to assume anything on your behalf and only ever wish to be respectful toward you." Just make sure you've built a rapport first and try to keep it as generic as possible because, like everyone, there's far more to someone than simply their gender identity and you don't want to come across as if that's the only thing you care about. (And I'm hoping it isn't in this case!)

In all honesty, when my friends have followed this advice/approach in the past, they've generally gained a new friend and both parties are thrilled (about 95% of the time), which could very well work out to be the case for you. But, as others have said, just be very careful and sensitive, especially with your wording and body language. If you're respectful and kind, they can sense this and may even answer your questions without you even having to ask. Just keep that sensitivity gauge at the highest level possible and don't dive right into the gender conversation head-first! As I mentioned, just like you, there are far more facets to a person than simply their gender identity, and multiple conversations (short as they may be) are recommended.

Again, PLEASE take this advice with a grain of salt (and combine it with all the other responses others have provided) as it's coming from a transwoman who's been out for a couple decades and who is completely open to any and everyone who asks me anything and who simply has a desire to educate folks and spread love and awareness.

The fact that you posted this seemingly indicates that you want to be sensitive and that you don't want to come across as presumptuous or condescending — and if you do this and do it properly, this person will be able to sense that. The fact that you mentioned they are "quite tall and easily clocked," along with everything else, likely indicates (to me at least) that this person is courageous enough to accept who they are in order to present this way and has probably encountered FAR worse than what you could say. It also indicates that they view this coffeeshop as a safe space for them, so please be very aware of that. If this individual is actually trans, then speaking for myself and my own trans friends, all we ever really want from others is respect, acceptance, and maybe even some validation. A little praise and admiration never hurts.

I really think the most important thing here is to simply interact with this person just as you would anyone else. They are a person just like you or I am and no different simply because they may (or may not) be trans. And if they are, in fact, a transwoman, they are a woman! Period, no question. Like myself, just because I'm trans, that makes me no less of a woman! Just don't assume anything. Validate and uplift the person. Show respect to the person. Display a genuine care for the person. People who take that approach typically receive responses of a similar nature. There's a lot of nuance to this, so best of luck to you!  ;D If after talking to them, it seems like they have walls up, then just leave it (and them) alone. Just be kind and be careful!

(And for those of you who may disagree with me here, I apologize and please don't jump all over me! I am more than open to being corrected. I know that all of us are different. I'm simply sharing the approach I've suggested to folks that seems to work best based on a vast span of years of anecdotal experiences. What I've proposed here has seemed to function well for many of my friends over the past 20 years and I'm only sharing it in the hopes that it will function similarly in this instance, assuming that rapport is first established and that respect, support, and an uplifting nature are all demonstrated to this individual by OP over the course of time. My intention is absolutely never to disrespect anyone or their personhood, beliefs, and character!)

Much love to everyone as always! <3

Melody Rich

I'm thinking that next time I see her, maybe comment on how much I love her style.  It's cute for a younger girl.
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Melody Rich

I did it!  I said "hi" to her.  This is the first time that I've every spoken to another Transwoman in person. 

All I said was (in drab), "I don't want to come off as creepy, but I love the way you dress.  It's so young and cute.". She clasps her hands over her chest and was so grateful.

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tgirlamg

Hi Melody!

It sounds like you are seeking the energy of making connections in the real world with other trans women... a local support group or meetup group might provide you with that as well as some additional insight into how others are moving forward and finding what they need in all of this!... All good things to you as you find your own way!

Onward We Go Brave Sister!

Ashley 😀💕🌻
"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment" ... Ralph Waldo Emerson 🌸

"The individual has always had to struggle from being overwhelmed by the tribe... But, no price is too high for the privilege of owning yourself" ... Rudyard Kipling 🌸

Let go of the things that no longer serve you... Let go of the pretense of the false persona, it is not you... Let go of the armor that you have worn for a lifetime, to serve the expectations of others and, to protect the woman inside... She needs protection no longer.... She is tired of hiding and more courageous than you know... Let her prove that to you....Let her step out of the dark and feel the light upon her face.... amg🌸

Ashley's Corner: https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,247549.0.html 🌻
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LoriDee

Quote from: Melody Rich on February 04, 2024, 05:30:58 AMI'm thinking that next time I see her, maybe comment on how much I love her style.  It's cute for a younger girl.

This! Transgender or not is not the issue. Just two women discussing fashion. What could be more normal than that? Maybe you hit it off and become friends, maybe not. Maybe she has some habit that annoys you. Start with just a compliment on her taste in style. See where it goes. Hugs.
My Life is Based on a True Story.
https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,247442.0.html

Maybe the journey isn't so much about becoming anything.
Maybe it's about un-becoming everything that isn't really you,
so you can be who you were meant to be in the first place.


2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2019 - Full time / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - Legal Name Change /
2024 - Voice Training
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Melody Rich

Quote from: LoriDee on February 24, 2024, 06:22:49 PMThis! Transgender or not is not the issue. Just two women discussing fashion. What could be more normal than that? Maybe you hit it off and become friends, maybe not. Maybe she has some habit that annoys you. Start with just a compliment on her taste in style. See where it goes. Hugs.

It sure did please her.  I'm sure she gets enough criticism.  For someone to compliment her style,...big!  I only wish I was young and thin enough to pull it off myself.
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