Which countries are "Safe" for (trans) women?

[Dawn Kellie]

My daughters want to donate girls day with me on the 29th. We all have it off and they are willing to do it with me.

We will call it a daddy daughters date but we are going to do some shopping. They want to help me with my look

[Moonflower]

I, too, am adverse to capitalism and colonialism. However, we chose to live in a place where schools taught -- until recently --  that no native people remain because the French destroyed them all (no, some escaped), and we are so impressed by the strength and intelligence of the democracy here that we're deliberately supporting government agencies that protect community resources. We're looking forward to being citizens.

Speaking of citizenship, I am a Greek citizen by descent (my grandfather was a Greek immigrant) but have been unable to find his birth certificate to prove and take advantage of it. His passport, marriage certificate, statements of intent, letters, autobiography... aren't enough. It's easier for me to become an Uruguayan citizen.

We came here with the understanding that people here don't judge. We discovered that it might be because they don't notice. We find it odd that we never see people acknowledge each other in passing. I suppose that judging is absent when you don't pay attention to another person. Even in the elevator of our apartment building, people rarely interact.

I can't yet explain why our doormen always greet us with great enthusiasm and a stream of well-wishing. I haven't noticed whether we initiated the habit when we arrived, or if they were trained to interact with everyone the same way.

Before we came here, we were very busy at home with work and then our hobbies. Sometimes, we didn't even go a mile away from home for over a month. Here, we're out and about almost every day, enthused about exploring this place, and enjoying feeling safe.

[Tills]

There was a time when I had seriously considered becoming a nomad. I am a survivalist (some would say a Doomsday Prepper), so my goal was not so much to avoid state control as to be very mobile. I was inspired by Bob Wells of CheapRVliving.com and used information from their forums to build the camper on the back of my pickup truck.

One of the reasons I ended up in South Dakota was its residency requirements for a driver's license and plates. You only need to prove you have been living in the state for 30 days, and a hotel or campground receipt is acceptable.

As recently as a couple of years ago, I had planned to buy a fully self-contained RV and spend winters in the Arizona desert, then migrate north into Colorado for the summers. Financing the RV fell through, and I found an affordable apartment.

When I noticed South Dakota starting to pass transphobic laws without announcing them to the public, I realized it was time to vote with my feet and get out.

Oh wow. I love this @Lori Dee

I pored over every RV / Van Life video that I could possibly watch, including DIY van conversions. Last year I went to loads of caravan and motorhome dealerships and trade fairs and came very close. In the end what put me off was that the UK is much tougher, I think, than the US. Space is a fraction and our roads are clogged up. It's becoming increasingly difficult to wild camp here too. And I didn't like the sound of many of the official campsites.

But I love the freedom of that. The sense of being able to come and go as you wish, and with your world possessions with you. And imagine the stars at night in the Arizona desert!

As for being a survivalist ... Trump seems to be doing his best to fulfil the prepper prophesies. These past few years with the pandemic and wars I feel as if the human race is receiving final warnings.

[Tills]

I, too, am adverse to capitalism and colonialism. However, we chose to live in a place where schools taught -- until recently --  that no native people remain because the French destroyed them all (no, some escaped), and we are so impressed by the strength and intelligence of the democracy here that we're deliberately supporting government agencies that protect community resources. We're looking forward to being citizens.

Speaking of citizenship, I am a Greek citizen by descent (my grandfather was a Greek immigrant) but have been unable to find his birth certificate to prove and take advantage of it. His passport, marriage certificate, statements of intent, letters, autobiography... aren't enough. It's easier for me to become an Uruguayan citizen.

We came here with the understanding that people here don't judge. We discovered that it might be because they don't notice. We find it odd that we never see people acknowledge each other in passing. I suppose that judging is absent when you don't pay attention to another person. Even in the elevator of our apartment building, people rarely interact.

I can't yet explain why our doormen always greet us with great enthusiasm and a stream of well-wishing. I haven't noticed whether we initiated the habit when we arrived, or if they were trained to interact with everyone the same way.

Before we came here, we were very busy at home with work and then our hobbies. Sometimes, we didn't even go a mile away from home for over a month. Here, we're out and about almost every day, enthused about exploring this place, and enjoying feeling safe.

It sounds pretty idyllic to me @Moonflower , though interesting about the greetings.

If I were 20 years younger I'd have seriously considered settling there.

Please keep us posted. I love reading about it and you are inspiring others.

[Tills]

Maybe you won't like to talk about it if there was tragedy involved but I would like to know more about your time in Africa Tills. Have you discussed that on a blog or something? It really does sound facinating.

I crave quiet all the time and while I'm not sure that living totally off grid is where I want to go, I definitely want to retire to Western Scotland. I can empathise with wanting to ditch the TV and I am totally disillusioned with UK politics as it makes no difference who you vote for, nothing ever gets better.

I am also very much anti globalisation and think that captilalism needs to be reigned in as it seems to be pushing us all down a downward spiral. I'm not a communist either I just think there has to be a better way.

Thanks @Stottie Girl it's so interesting what you have posted. There seem to be a number of us with similar perspectives.

xx

[Tills]

I wonder if any of you have watched any of Ben Fogle's New Lives in the Wild series? There are around 80 episodes and some of them are so inspirational. They're on UK Channel 5 but if you download files then they're also readily available online and there are loads of full episodes uploaded onto YouTube.

I know it doesn't exactly correlate with a 'safe space' for (trans) women which is the title of this thread, but there are overlaps and resonances. That's not just geographical but also ontological: one's state of being. In almost every case it's about finding Freedom, whether that's freedom from tyranny and persecution, or freedom from pressures and life traumas.

I'm not suggesting every one of our community should consider going off-grid but what you do get from these programmes is a glimpse into where it's possible to be your own person without aggro. It's just one facet and possible avenue for those of us seeking a safe space to live.

xx

[Stottie Girl]

I missed Ben Fogle by two days when I visited Holy Island off Arran. He was visiting the Tibettan monastery/retreat that owns the island to do a show but I can't remember what the series was called. I wonder if it is one of those episodes. I'll have to take a peak. Thanks Tills.

[Moonflower]

Please keep us posted. I love reading about it and you are inspiring others.

I love reading about your undertaking, too, and all of the stories here at Susan's. We're an adventurous bunch. The fire is making us leap like popcorn!

[Tills]

By way of update, as some of you will know I had terrible transgender roadblocks in Surrey which is in south-east England for those unfamiliar with the UK. So I've taken action:

https://www.susans.org/index.php?topic=253232.msg2335791

As I explore more of the Scottish scene I'll keep you posted on how it feels up there to be me.

xx

[ChrissyRyan]

There are Web sites that list the countries that are NOT safe, and some that list friendly countries, for transgender folks.  Some allow you to find out which countries for being transgender is a criminal activity, and the punishment being as severe as death.

Some sites show maps of the countries. 

[Tills]

I think I'm going to have to 'park' my Scottish place for a year or so i.e. do no work on it.

Why so? Because I was called yesterday by my hospital for the Gender Affirming Surgery (vaginoplasty) and with that and a lip lift procedure I also want to recommence laser hair removal with 6 x sessions.

I kind-of knew this would be my dilemma: If I went ahead with all the procedures first I wouldn't have been able to afford to buy the place. On the other hand, once I bought it I knew that if I had the procedures I wouldn't be able to afford to do any of the renovation and redecoration.

Hey ho.

xx

[Tills]

Hi ladies,

Well ... I am just back from Scotland where I've been renovating and decorating my place. I have returned in order to prepare for my surgeries: https://www.susans.org/index.php?topic=252584.40

However, and it's a big however, I have come to feel that the UK is now Trans Exclusionary. I know that's a strong statement, but I do not believe that this country is any longer either supportive or protective towards transgender people. Not that I see myself as trans anything. I'm a woman. Always was, always will be.

I intend taking action but my surgeries come first. Watch this space

xx

[Finally Anna]

Referring the thread start, I'd think all Nordics are quite ok or even good wrt legislation, discrimination and general views.

[Stottie Girl]

Absolutely amazing to see you back Tills! I've missed your militant spirit!

[Tills]

Absolutely amazing to see you back Tills! I've missed your militant spirit!

Haha love this 😀

Sorry for my absence. I felt it was best to draw breath and return with peaceful energy.

[Tills]

Reading a book which I think is brilliant:

James O'Brien How They Broke Britain

https://www.amazon.co.uk/They-Broke-Britain-James-OBrien/dp/0753560348 🔗

Sunday Times bestseller

It's not about trans issues per se but the general political and cultural mileu out of which the current toxic culture has grown.

xx

[Stottie Girl]

Reading a book which I think is brilliant:

James O'Brien How They Broke Britain

https://www.amazon.co.uk/They-Broke-Britain-James-OBrien/dp/0753560348 🔗

Sunday Times bestseller

It's not about trans issues per se but the general political and cultural mileu out of which the current toxic culture has grown.

xx

Might take a gander, thanks for the recommendation. I love him on LBC he doesn't give a monkeys!

[Tills]

Yesterday's ruling by NHS England that hospital places must now be assigned by 'biological sex' (see here: https://www.susans.org/index.php?topic=255275.msg2356928#msg2356928 ) is the final straw for me.

I am emigrating.

Also yesterday the author Sally Rooney announced that her books will no longer be for sale in the UK (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cmx23q4g307vo 🔗 ). I do not think it's right to get into a discussion about the rights and wrongs of supporting Palestinian Action on this thread please, that's not why I'm writing this, only to indicate what I feel it also illustrates: that the UK is now a very intolerant and angry country. I'm out.

I've put my Scottish place up for sale and viewings are coming in.

I intend to have another look at Ireland and have some ideas in mind. This appeals to me for all sorts of reasons.

1. It's much less densely populated
2. You can still buy cheap properties to do up
3. They are so much more tolerant and accepting of trans people and this is written into law
4. It is within the EU which makes travel much easier but also, most importantly, means protection under EU laws
5. They are generally friendly, chilled out, and accepting
6. For anyone from the UK there is a reciprocal arrangement so no visa is required. You don't even have to travel between the two with a passport
7. After a period of time you can apply for Irish citizenship and therefore an Irish passport

which in turn would mean ...
8. You could live anywhere in the EU if you wanted


If Ireland doesn't feel right then I will emigrate to Thailand. That's not because I think Thailand is perfect but because it is not hate-filled or hate-fuelled and as long as you are respectful of Thai culture including their monarchy they let you be who the hell ever you want to be without judgement, criticism, or complaint. Bliss.

xx

@KathyLauren
@Devlyn

[Devlyn ✅]

which in turn would mean ...
8. You could live anywhere in the EU if you wanted

That's the big one right there. 🙂