Rediscovering Pema

[Dances With Trees]

I'm so happy for you, Pema! Thanks for all the good news on all fronts: psychological, physiological, and, in my opinion, social. Please keep us informed of all the wonderful things headed your way.

[Pema]

Thank you, @Dances With Trees Anni. These are fascinating times, and I'm delighted to have you to share them.

[Emma1017]

Pema, it all sounds exciting, particularly when you discover many of your fears aren't real and when your body starts becoming your body. I am glad that you are having the joy you deserve!

[Pema]

Thank you, @Emma1017. I'm generally not a fear-oriented person, so that's never been much of a part of this for me. It's always been more of an open-ended wondering what will happen and how it'll feel. I allow for all of the possibilities and am sometimes surprised by my reaction.

I'm just not a big anticipator of anything. I choose my course, I head in that direction, I see what happens, and I make adjustments as they make sense. I'm rarely focused on a particular outcome, and that means I'm rarely disappointed and often very (very) satisfied. I'm as much about the process (maybe more) as the result.

I remember as a teen seeing how amazing it was that I had the ability to shape my body in a way that served me better (or so I thought). This is reminiscent of that experience, but in a whole new direction.

And yes! It's quite joyful!

Thank you for your loving support - and of course the great photos you share of yourself. They're so inspiring.

[Pema]

I thought I had posted this, but it didn't go through. Sorry it's late!

@Lori Dee: Thank you. That strategy is pretty much what I'd choose if it were up to me, so I hope that's what mine will do. Boy, it's not going to be cheap, though. Do you have any sense for how many hairs-per-hour they can get? I'm only 18% joking.

Although I'm extremely sensitive, I also have a very high pain tolerance (masochist?), so I'll be asking them to crank it, too. I don't want to repeat this any more than is necessary. Who needs toenails anyway?

I have to say that I'm very pleasantly surprised by the effectiveness of the laser (so far). I realize more could still reappear, but I think it knocked out 90% of the dark ones. And what's left is almost entirely on my upper lip (the worst area, of course). But I expected a far lower yield.

@Charlotte_Ringwood: Thank you for your support and confirmation. You know, I feel like whatever happens happens, and it's all good. The way things are going, I fully expect more growth, and even if there isn't any, I already *feel* good, and that's what I'm in this for. So, as long as I don't get enormous breasts and require reduction surgery (😜), I'm content with whatever comes. I guess at some point it would be comforting to know what clothing sizes I wear.

The one thing about laser that still feels unsettled is that I missed two (monthly) appointments this summer, and a lot re-grew in that time. It's only been a month now, and it still looks good, but I won't be surprised if more returns. Whether it does or not, I think it's electrolysis time.

The only person I've hugged is my wife, and I definitely experience it differently. Even she'll say, "Oh, my! You feel so...feminine!" It does feel pretty wonderful.

What's interesting about the breasts is that I had large, well-developed pecs into my 50's. I was a scrawny kid with round hips and decided the only way I could look proportionate (and appeal to girls) was to build my chest. I became something of a body-builder and really focused on my chest. So it's not unfamiliar to me to feel this volume in my breasts, but this is a very different feeling - soft and round instead of rigid and sharp-edged. I feel sort of ridiculously giggly about it.

Thank you both for your companionship on this journey.

[Lori Dee ✅]

Boy, it's not going to be cheap, though. Do you have any sense for how many hairs-per-hour they can get? I'm only 18% joking.

I pay by the hour, and how much they can get done varies. I have found the price far lower than I expected! On some days, she can get a lot done in an hour, but some of my sessions were only 30-minutes. She is so busy, her schedule is booked solid.

She told me when @Jessica_Rose referred me to her that she had no room in her schedule for new clients. But because I am friends with two Susan's Place members who have been seeing her for years, she was willing to add me to her cancellation list. Fortunately for me, the holidays resulted in quite a few cancellations, and she was able to squeeze me in. That helped me get started and helped her not lose income due to the cancellations.

[Jessica_Rose ✅]

Electrolysis tips...

Don't pluck. Although plucking can weaken the follicle, the hair shaft may grow back at weird angles, which makes electrolysis more difficult.

Don't shave for two or three days prior you your appointment. The hair needs to be long enough to grab with tweezers.

Drink plenty of water. It helps improve electrical conductivity.

The area under your nose and around your lips is very sensitive. I don't care how long you have been been getting treatments, it isn't comfortable. Numbing cream helps. I'm sure there are many other versions equally effective, but I use one called 'Numb Master'. No prescription required.

As @Lori Dee mentioned, your electrologist probably 'knows best'. However, if you have a few specific areas that really bother you, let them know.

There are three types of hair removal techniques we call 'electrolysis':

Galvanic - the client holds an electrode while the electrologist inserts a thin wire into the hair follicle under the surface of the skin. An electric current is applied to the bottom of the follicle, destroying the hair root. This method is a little slower, but it is more effective. Treatment usually take 3 - 5 seconds per hair.

Thermolysis - also called shortwave or radio frequency electrolysis, uses high-frequency electrical current to create heat within the hair follicle, destroying the root. This method is not as effective as electrolysis, but it allows the operator to cover an area more quickly. Usually only about 1 second per hair.

Blend - a method combining galvanic and thermolysis. It's a combination of the first two and takes 1 - 2 seconds per hair.

If we have plenty of time, my electrologist uses galvanic. If we have a large area to cover and not enough time for galvanic, she uses blend. She rarely (never?) uses thermolysis alone, because it isn't nearly as effective as galvanic. If you aren't holding (or somehow attached) to an electrode during treatment, they are using thermolysis only. While thermolysis is less effective, it does work, you'll just need more treatments.

Take a cooler with you if possible, and keep a chilled package of 'Preparation H' wipes inside. After your session, use one on the treated area. It's very soothing and will help reduce the redness and mild swelling.

You do eventually get accustomed to it. But the first few visits may have you reconsidering your life choices.

Love always -- Jessica Rose

[Pema]

Thank you, @Jessica_Rose. I'm a hardcore researcher - including the pages here at Susan's Place - so I've encountered all of that before, but it's still good to hear it directly from someone with ongoing experience.

I'll be fascinated to see how the pain compares to laser. There was no way to keep the tears at bay when she'd do my upper lip, but I was laughing at the same time, because it clearly was doing something.

Y'all are getting me excited about doing this!

Thank you!

[davina61]

The breast thing, I got a hug from a lady at open mic and she went oh! not expecting my boobs to be so big.

[Emma1017]

Pema, I am so glad that you feel the excitement of transitioning.  I also love all the "big sister" advice everyone is sharing.  It's great see that support in action.

It truly is exciting!

[Pema]

Assigned at Birth

Claimer: Everything I say here is my personal view and is in no way intended to represent an absolute truth or anyone's experience but my own.

Over in another thread:

CBS News embraces "transphobic dog whistle" under Bari Weiss' guidance

I was surprised to see Lori's comment saying:

Gender is never "assigned at birth". Fact.

I value Lori's opinion on any subject, but I was genuinely confused because the article quoted wasn't talking about gender; it was about sex and it was saying specifically that CBS was moving away from saying "assigned" to saying "biological." So "assigned gender" wasn't the phrase being discussed.

But I was also confused because I do very much see it that a gender *was* assigned to me when I was born, so I said:

Oh, I've always taken that phrase differently, Lori. I've taken it to mean that I was assigned the gender male when I was born, and that assignment was invalid.

Lori replied:

Sex is assigned at birth, not gender. Gender is an internal sense of self, and newborns are never asked what gender they are.

And then Lilis - someone else whose opinion I value - said:

Yes, this is a dangerous conflation of sex assigned at birth with gender.

I'll be completely up-front: My recollection of my birth is extremely unreliable. From what I've been told, within moments of my emergence into the air, a doctor proclaimed, "It's a boy!" and within the next few hours, I was given a classic, Anglo "male" name (after my two parents' brothers) and swaddled in blue.

To me, in every way imaginable, I was assigned a gender at birth. As Lilis pointed out, everyone involved *did* conflate the sex that they determined for me with a gender. Lori was right; I was not asked what my gender was. They assumed it. And assigned it.

From that day forward, absolutely everything that the society in which I was raised associates with gender was imposed on me. I was dressed in "boys' clothes" including things like cowboy outfits. I was given footballs and toy trucks and erector sets and all of the stereotypical accoutrements that children designated "boys" are expected to adopt and embrace.

Merriam-Webster's definition of the word "assign" includes this one:

    "to fix or specify in correspondence or relationship : select, designate"

This is exactly the meaning that I think applies to how I was misgendered as a child. In fact, I think to misgender someone is to *assign* them a gender that conflicts with their gender identity.

I could say a lot more about countless other "assignments" that were forced upon me throughout my life with no consideration for my preferences or feelings, but those aren't particularly relevant to this post. And the assignment/designation/imposition of a gender upon me by society at the moment of my birth is quite possibly the one that has created the greatest conflict in my life.

I can't be certain, but I suspect some of the objection to saying that a gender was assigned at birth may arise from the use of passive voice: "was assigned." Assigned by whom? With what authority? With what information? What what intention? To me, the first question is the only one that really matters, and the answer is: assigned by society writ large. I don't see why it would be controversial to say that society literally assigned me a gender when I was born.

And I think it's extremely important to say it: Society assigned me a gender when I was born. And then absolutely everyone I encountered reinforced that assignment in my every waking moment. I could recount the ways I was told "You have to do this" or "You can't do that" - "because you're a boy." But everyone here has their own versions of those stories.

To be told "You were not assigned a gender at birth" starts to sound to me like denialism or gaslighting, as if I imagined the entire experience. No, I'm very clear. This was done to me, and a significant aspect of my becoming whole and being at peace in this world is about overcoming that assignment and the relentless conditioning that came with it and allowing myself to be who I truly am.

I was assigned a gender at birth, and I reject that assignment.

I suppose we could say "misgendered at birth," but that seems unnecessarily complicated.

[Charlotte_Ringwood]

I'd argue in a way that being assigned a gender shouldn't also necessarily define an ideology to fit around it.

You mention society associating certain things with that gender, which were then imposed upon you. An improved narrative could assign gender with no prescribed types of behavior or presentation. Allowing freedom of choice and expression. Or at least neutrality. Better still gender need not be assigned at all which I think you get at in your post.

There are possibly some practical/medical reasons to consider sex. But everything else, if given a gender identity, just leans into stereotypes. I argue that gender can,  in a way, only be defined by attaching stereotypical features normally considered appropriate for one gender or the other. In reality we could all be agender with our own unique personality which may lean to the typical expectation of one gender or the other. But considering gender for me, always hits the problem of definition. It's easier to just be me who likes to present and live in a stereotypically female way. I do use the term femme aligned sometimes.

This is just my ramblings...my thought processes. I don't profess it as fact or to invalidate others experiences which may differ.

Charlotte 😻

[Pema]

Oh, I agree with you completely, Charlotte.

I think things *could* and *should* be done quite differently from they way they have been and largely still are done.

But to me that's very different from saying that it didn't happen. It did.

[Lori Dee ✅]

Pema,

Thank you for clarifying this!

You are correct in what you are saying, and I didn't see it from that point of view. Now, I understand what you meant and why there was confusion. I agree that your definition is accurate. That is how society works.

Hugs!

[Dances With Trees]

Such an eloquent and impassioned discussion! And nothing I can say will add to the depth and breadth of the conversation. But that won't stop me from saying it: I don't consider your statement (Pema), to be excusive or contradictory to Lori's or Lilis's. And Charlotte's post is a compelling synthesis in an ideal world. Like most of us, perhaps all of us, gender and sex were conflated by doctors, parents, and whoever swaddled you in a blue blanket. That doesn't mean your gender was assigned but merely conflated with your anatomical presentation. Newborns don't have agency. Fortunately, adults do.

[Lilis]

To be told "You were not assigned a gender at birth" starts to sound to me like denialism or gaslighting, as if I imagined the entire experience. No, I'm very clear. This was done to me, and a significant aspect of my becoming whole and being at peace in this world is about overcoming that assignment and the relentless conditioning that came with it and allowing myself to be who I truly am.

I was assigned a gender at birth, and I reject that assignment.

I suppose we could say "misgendered at birth," but that seems unnecessarily complicated.

Thanks Pema. I want to reflect something back that I'm noticing, and I hope it lands in the spirit it's intended, not as a correction, but as a way of naming where our language may be pointing to slightly different layers of experience.

What you describe resonates with me as conditioning and social construction, the way society reads a body at birth and then builds an entire gendered world around that assumption.

The clothes, toys, rules, expectations, and permissions are very real, and the impact of that lifelong reinforcement can't be overstated.

Where I experience a distinction is at the level of gender identity itself.

For me, gender identity exists at a deeper layer than conditioning. It isn't created by social assignment, even though social forces can suppress, distort, or delay our awareness of it. The fact that so many carry an internal sense of self for decades despite contradictory conditioning feels, to me, like evidence that conditioning doesn't determine gender identity at the core.

So when I hear "assigned a gender at birth," I understand and respect it as a way of describing what society did to me.

I tend to reserve "gender" itself for that internal, self known truth, whether it emerges early, late, fluidly, or outside binary narratives.

In that sense, I don't feel my gender was ever assigned to me, it existed long before I had words for it.

What was assigned were expectations, roles, and assumptions based on sexed anatomy.

I think both ways of speaking are trying to honor the same reality. The harm of being seen and treated as something we were not.

Thank you for engaging in this so thoughtfully.


~ Lilis 🌷

[Pema]

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies.

@Lilis, please know that when it comes to gender identity, you and I are in full agreement. Gender identity - or any identity for that matter - can only be reliably determined by the individual possessing it.

I can even agree that ultimately the terms "gender" and "gender identity" can be treated as equivalent. My gender is what I say it is; it is my gender identity. And yet, that doesn't erase the reality that society still imposes a gender upon us at birth when, as Anni says, we do not have agency - in exactly the same way that it does many, many other cultural expectations and assumptions. It's only when we attain autonomy and sovereignty that we are capable of reclaiming our right to redefine ourselves appropriately.

I think it's vital that we have language to describe that act of societal assimilation, and the word "assigned" hits the spot for me. It may be true that some people will use the term to mean something else, but I'll be pretty comfortable thinking, "Yeah, I don't think that means what you think it means."

Thank you for your thoughtful engagement.

With love,
Pema

[Courtney G]

The one thing about laser that still feels unsettled is that I missed two (monthly) appointments this summer, and a lot re-grew in that time. It's only been a month now, and it still looks good, but I won't be surprised if more returns. Whether it does or not, I think it's electrolysis time.

I'm always excited when I have a chance to share this, so I'll share it here in the hope that you and others will consider it:

I was using over-the-counter numbing cream prior to each electro session. It definitely helped. I decided to send a note to my (very cool female) doctor via our messaging portal, letter her know what I was doing and requesting prescription-strength numbing cream. Within a few hours, my pharmacy notified me that there was a new script and I had the cream before my next appointment.

It was a game-changer for me. It probably cut the discomfort in half over the numbing provided by the OTC stuff. I put it on (over a clean face) about 30 minutes before my appointment and covered the area with a piece of saran wrap until I got to her office. I only use it on the area(s) I know she's going to work on. I've used it for about 12 visits so far and I suspect I have enough cream in the tube for 30-40 more visits (basically a year's worth). I plan on letting my doc know how well it works during my upcoming wellness exam, and asking her for a refill. I have a lot of leftover gray hairs and I suspect I'll be seeing her for 3 years or more, as long as my insurance continues to cover it throughout the current administration's reign. Luckily, I like in a state that appears to be fighting for trans rights.

For reference, the stuff she prescribed contains 2.5% lidocaine and 2.5% prilocaine.

[Lori Dee ✅]

The numbing cream I bought from a tattoo supply shop is 2.5% too. I used it, and it worked ok. Then my electrologist suggested something stronger for sensitive areas under the nose and near the mouth. She provided me with a jar of what she uses, which is 5%. It's a small jar, so not a year's supply, but it costs less than $12 if I remember correctly.

The drive to her office takes an hour. So I pull into a gas station at the halfway point and slather it on. She told me not to put a thin coat and rub it in -- slather it on nice and thick. By the time I get to my appointment 30 minutes later, I am numb.

[Sephirah]

Sorry for the late reply to this. Having read through it, Lilis and Pema you're saying the same thing. But using the same word to mean different things.

Assignation of gender is a thing. It's what people do to you. It is conditioning and societal expectation, like Lilis says, but to people who have never thought about it beyond that... that is gender. You're using different terms to describe the same thing. It's a framework for people to classify everyone to make it easy to put someone in a "this" or "that" category.

However, Lilis is also right, that there's a fundamental difference between the gender you are assigned and the gender you identify with. The difference is the viewer, not the view. When you have never experienced what it feels like to feel disconnected from everything people are trying to force on you... you try to force it on everyone. Just because you think that is how it is.

You are both saying the same thing. To say you are assigned a gender at birth isn't wrong. Because it's what people do who think everyone should behave a certain way. But to say that this is the gender someone is, isn't necessarily correct because not everyone feels that way. Both things happen and that's why trans people exist.

I was assigned massively annoying at birth because I never stopped crying. I hope that isn't true now. Unless you put certain movies in front of me, lol. I still probably am massively annoying