Can it be too easy to change your legal gender?

[Finally Anna]

In the wake of the dicsussions about how a rules based system cannot possibly treat all the different stages of gender transition or gender variance in accordance with, what we can call, decency and common sense.

Can it be too easy to change your legal gender?
Where I live it is rather easy to change your legal gender. No psychological evaluation is needed. No probation period is needed. No official investigation is needed.
You do need an approval from the healthcare but you can get that via an online meeting and it is in principle based on your own story. Put a bit simplified, you just apply for the change and then the change is done.

Not surprisingly, there has been a few cases where this has been misused, so that men, or men not yet in transition, have been placed with women. I will not give details since such detail is not relevant for the question.

[Finally Anna]

Hmmm, should perhaps have put this under "Polls". Sorry for that little mistake. Mod can perhaps move it? @Devlyn @Lori Dee

[Devlyn ✅]

Hmmm, should perhaps have put this under "Polls". Sorry for that little mistake. Mod can perhaps move it? @Devlyn @Lori Dee

Fasten your seatbelts... WHEEEEEEEEE!

[Devlyn ✅]

I voted with the non-vote option: it's a greyscale.

Having said that, I like easy change because it's going to be nearly impossible to compose a set of rules that work...as we saw in the other topic.

I changed my legal gender in Massachusetts. It required a letter from a physician stating that I had taken steps to be legally recognized as my chosen gender. While in my case that was HRT followed by surgery, surgery was not a requirement.

I like that because not everyone wants, or indeed can have, surgery. That doesn't mean they don't want to change their legal gender, and they should be allowed to do so.

[Lori Dee ✅]

I think there should be more to it than just filling out a form. I mean legal gender, not expression. Since you are changing legal documents, it should not be too easy. The change affects many aspects of our lives, from finance to employment and how we are identified in government records.

I transitioned in South Dakota. The requirement there was a sworn statement from a healthcare provider who knows you and has been involved in your clinical transition. The statement says they have been your doctor for _______ and that you have completed the necessary clinical transition for that gender. It doesn't specify what those steps are (HRT, surgery, etc.)

For those who choose not to medically transition, this could be a mental health professional attesting that one has socially transitioned. This met the Real Life Experience that was once required for surgery but has since been discontinued.

[Finally Anna]

Personally, I think it is a bit too easy over here. The law was changed a few years ago and there was definitely some warnings and recommendations to not pass it as it is/was written.

I don't want it to be troublesome, but some kind of proof or really strong indication about your gender variance would be good to require. Put another way: There should be no flip-flopping and any changes should not cause problems wrt documents and/or co-location of cis and trans persons, and so on.

I am also in the greyscale on this. No suprise there, perhaps.

[Lori Dee ✅]

I don't want it to be troublesome, but some kind of proof or really strong indication about your gender variance would be good to require. Put another way: There should be no flip-flopping and any changes should not cause problems wrt documents and/or co-location of cis and trans persons, and so on.

I agree with this. I think part of the reason for not making it too easy is that it prevents people from choosing a gender of the week for legal purposes. That's also why I support a third NB option, like the X marker for those whose gender is more fluid.

Before starting HRT, I needed a psychological eval. Then I got so many "warnings" from healthcare providers asking, "Are you sure?" "This will be permanent." Etc. That continued for the first 3-6 months. I kept saying, "Yes, I want a permanent change. Sign me up!"

I feel that there are areas where the government needs to mind its own business. If psych or medical personnel determine that I am correct in saying, "This is my gender," who are they to argue? They need to fix their own problems before worrying about mine.

The problem is that there are busybodies whose lives are so boring they feel they must stick their noses into everyone else's business.

[Charlotte Kitty ✅]

I wasn't aware there is such a thing as legal gender? Where is this actially held? My birth certificate has my sex as male. I'd need a GRC which means jumping through hoops to change it. My passport needed a letter from a medical professional to change gender. Everything eise i just asked. So in light of that what is my legal gender?

According to the EHRC in some cases my legal gender is sex assigned at birth. So really I don't know the definition of legal gender to start with.

Changing the main thing, my birth certificate takes 2 years of evidence collecting and around £500 of private assessments and letters to do here in the UK!

[Lori Dee ✅]

I wasn't aware there is such a thing as legal gender? Where is this actially held? My birth certificate has my sex as male. I'd need a GRC which means jumping through hoops to change it. My passport needed a letter from a medical professional to change gender. Everything eise i just asked. So in light of that what is my legal gender?

According to the EHRC in some cases my legal gender is sex assigned at birth. So really I don't know the definition of legal gender to start with.

Changing the main thing, my birth certificate takes 2 years of evidence collecting and around £500 of private assessments and letters to do here in the UK!

Legal gender usually refers to the gender listed on your identity documents: photo IDs, driver's license, passports, etc. In many places, you can change it with a letter or by filling out a form. Some places require a court order or a change in your birth certificate first.

I went to court to change my legal name. As "evidence" for the reason for the change, I submitted my letter from my doctor stating that I had completed the clinical requirements for gender change from male to female.

That gave me a court order stating that my name had changed, and my birth certificate could be updated. When I changed my name on my birth certificate, I also indicated that my gender had changed and submitted the letter and the court order.

Once that was done, it wasn't too difficult to change photo IDs, Social Security card, driver's license, bank accounts, credit cards, and get a passport.

[KathyLauren]

I wasn't aware there is such a thing as legal gender? Where is this actially held?

Usually, this is on your birth certificate.  My birth certificate is from the UK, so the Nova Scotia government has no say in it.  But they wanted to see it changed before they would update their own documents, such as driver's license health card, etc. 

In fact, they had to invent a new procedure, since NS wanted my UK documents changed first, and the UK wanted my NS documents changed first.  They invented a Gender Change Certificate which allowed me to change my local documents, allowing me to get a GRC and change my birth certificate.

While waiting for all the paperwork to clear, I was driving around with a license that said I was Kathleen, but "male"!  🙄

It was a royal pain getting my paperwork changed, and I don't think it should have to be that hard.  But still, I don't think it should be possible to change your legal gender just on your own say-so.  Getting a letter from a professional or two is not that hard, and gives legitimacy to the request.

[Lori Dee ✅]

While waiting for all the paperwork to clear, I was driving around with a license that said I was Kathleen, but "male"!  🙄

We would never judge you.

❤️

[Laura Squirrel]

As long as you have the proper paperwork from your therapist, docs, surgeons, that should be enough. Far too many people in governmental offices around my area had no idea what I was even talking about.