Childhood Gender Nonconformity -- means you're GAY ?!?!

[Valerie]

I'm at work and didn't have time to read this whole article yet, but wanted to get it posted here.  Check out this excerpt from the first page & the entire article can be found using the link below :

The Science Of Sexual Orientation
(Page 1 of 5)

March 12, 2006
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Jared (left) and Adam are nine years old. Their mother says she began to notice a difference in Adam when he was only 18 months old. Adam's behavior is an example of childhood gender nonconformity, say scientists. Research shows that most children with extreme tendencies toward gender nonconformity grow up to be gay. (CBS)

There are few issues as hotly contested — and as poorly understood — as the question of what makes a person gay or straight. It's not only a political, social, and religious question but also a scientific question, one that might someday have an actual, provable answer.

The handful of scientists who work in this under-funded and politically charged field will tell you: That answer is a long way off. But as Lesley Stahl reports, their efforts are already yielding tantalizing clues. One focus of their research is twins.

The bedrooms of 9-year-old twins Adam and Jared couldn't be more different. Jared's room is decked out with camouflage, airplanes, and military toys, while Adam's room sports a pastel canopy, stuffed animals, and white horses.

When Stahl came for a visit, Jared was eager to show her his G.I. Joe collection. "I have ones that say like Marine and SWAT. And then that's where I keep all the guns for 'em," he explained.

Adam was also proud to show off his toys. "This is one of my dolls. Bratz baby," he said.

Adam wears pinkish-purple nail polish, adorned with stars and diamonds.

Asked if he went to school like that, Adam says, "Uh-huh. I just showed them my nails, and they were like, 'Why did you do that?'"

Adam's behavior is called childhood gender nonconformity, meaning a child whose interests and behaviors are more typical of the opposite sex. Research shows that kids with extreme gender nonconformity usually grow up to be gay.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/09/60minutes/main1385230.shtml


I think it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that gender nonconformity is a precursor to homosexuality...  but I see it as a major positive that these kids' parents are accepting and allowing both their kids to express their preferences....

XO,
Valerie

[Kate]

Yup, Michael Bailey strikes again.

See also: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2595.0.html

I'm actually not so sure about those twins. The one is sooooo hyper-masculine, and the other sooooo hyper-feminine, that it seems like some sort of competition between the two of them.

[Kimberly]

Oh yes, definitely 'gay' behavior.

^*sigh*

Some times you have to wonder where people put their brains. Gay is a sexual orientation. Where, prey tell, was there mention of sexuality?

^{*froths at the mouth.*}

[madison]

Fascinating subject.

Very interesting take on the article Kate. I may not have noticed that.

True there was no mention of sexuality. But as Beth stated in the forum topic Effeminacy in gay culture:

We all have our TS stories of dressing, playing with opposite gender toys etc. Imagine if you were in second grade and happily male in your male body but attracted to other boys. Could you watch a Disney cartoon version of "Brokeback Mountain"?  No you would be watching "Sleeping Beauty".  If the class is to act out "Sleeping Beauty" you want to play her part, not because you are female inside but because she is the only one who will be kissed by the prince in the end. I think a society that promotes heterosexuality and hides/attacks homosexuality plays a role in this.

Without the awareness of TG/TS and gender dysphoric issues, a young boy such as Adam, could begin to identify as being gay, even if there is in fact a woman emotionally lurking within. In the example above, he would begin to relate with "Sleeping Beauty", and may also attach his interests to actually kissing the prince, because that is what the "princess" does. Even assuming that nature arguments are completely true, one cannot deny the power of conditioning to distort and cloud perceptions of ourselves and the world around us. Therefore I suggest that the study could very well be true, even if it would not be true if our society functioned differently, and TS/TG issues were more understood and accepted.

Gender non-conformity may not HAVE to be a precursor, but it seems entirely plausible to me that this is one possible reaction/reality. I say this as I feel it may relate to my own personal experiences.

Fascinating subject.

[rana]

Hi Valerie
Just reading that item, somebody has just got to be pulling somebodys leg there (I looked to see if the date was 1/4).

Where are the parents in all of this - did they have any input into the decking out of the twins bedrooms.

Its like Kate said - just too extreme,  are those kids playing roles?  I would even tend to be a bit sus about Jared he is being a bit too macho (or he is being reported that way).  When you think about it Jared is also playing with dolls?  When I was his age I certainly had a collection of war like toys - but they were armoured vehicles & planes (brings back memories there   I had examples of the best of the German Luftwaffe, we used to reinvent and reinterpret  the Battle of Britain)

In fact the more I think about it the article seems B/s. 

[Chaunte]

Hi Valerie
Just reading that item, somebody has just got to be pulling somebodys leg there (I looked to see if the date was 1/4).

Where are the parents in all of this - did they have any input into the decking out of the twins bedrooms.

Its like Kate said - just too extreme,  are those kids playing roles?  I would even tend to be a bit sus about Jared he is being a bit too macho (or he is being reported that way).  When you think about it Jared is also playing with dolls?  When I was his age I certainly had a collection of war like toys - but they were armoured vehicles & planes (brings back memories there   I had examples of the best of the German Luftwaffe, we used to reinvent and reinterpret  the Battle of Britain)

In fact the more I think about it the article seems B/s. 

I saw the broadcast video about these twins, so its not a BS story.  (At least in terms of it being an urban legend.)

From what i have seen, the personalities of twins are never the same - one is always dominant over the other to some degree.  It would be interesting to see these kids in about 20 years.

Oh, and Rana?  My 8th Air Force will take on your Luftwaffe any time!

Chaunte

[caitlyn]

When I read articles like this I can't help but wonder about the dynamics of the family itself. What influences have differed between the two twins, were there any differences in their childhoods, etc.
Watching my own children and their friends grow up, I have seen wide variances in the way they behaved as they were growing up; and watched them change and come back together again as they aged and began their own families.  Now I am watching the same trends in my grandchildren.

From my point of view this article appears to need further work and a lot more study of the entire family to have any credibility.

I feel the writer does not make a solid point and my gut feel is "Junk science". 

[HelenW]

"Junk Science " indeed!

I can see not extensively citing sources on a TV show but when the same is written up on a website and they cite "research" and then fail to document where the research came from it smacks of lazy reporting and sloppy, yes JUNK, journalism.  For all we know the "research" all came from Bailey whose methods and results have been so thoroughly discredited in the past.

The problem is that "60 Minutes" is a highly rated show and, until now, I had a healthy respect for the work that they did.  It's a shame that they went to these sorts of lengths to sensationalize the subject to the point they did for TV and then not really making it better for those who wanted to learn more by reading the web article.

Shame on you, 60 Minutes, I always thought better of you!

helen

[rana]

Chaunte
I know this is way off topic & apologise - but I just cannot let that go by. Your 8th Air Force pfft!.  MY Luftwaffe was composed of 1945 vintage Focke Wulfs and Arado bombers mysteriously transported back to 1942 to refight the Battle of Britain, me & my mates vs my younger brother & his. Till the very end we always won because we could show the speeds & specifications of out machines far exceeded those of our opponents. After demolishing the RAAF, our Tiger Tanks & Elephant assult guns, mysteriously transported across the channel would trundle triumphantly towards London - the Brits never had a chance.

Sadly my youger brother & his friends must have had advice from somewhere because out of the blue was able to produce models of US Corsairs to match any German planes, & RAAF Typhoons to destroy our armour.  That unsporting behaviour led to a napalm attack on the RAAF planes which he countered with a simulated asteroid strike (ie a brick) on ours.  Game set & match to my younger brother I'm afraid

I had to post that, they were magic times - how could playing with dolls ever be as much fun as that

rana 

[Kimberly]

 

!!

Now that is the way to play wargames!