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Does Buddhism celebrate life?

Started by Constance, April 21, 2008, 12:36:10 PM

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Constance

I was re-reading the Dhammapada when I came across this.
Quote
Resist the pleasure of life
And the desire to hurt --
Till sorrows vanish.
The second line makes sense to me: if I resist the desire to hurt others, I can help make sorrows vanish.

But, the first line seems to suggest that the Buddhist should be an ascetic, too, which I thought was something that went against the Middle Way.

If the Buddhist is to Resist the pleasure of life, how can one celebrate or take joy in life?

Sister Seagull

The idea is that pleasure as well as suffering can be an "attachment".  To rid yourself of your attachments is key to finding inner peace according to Buddhist philosophy.  This really is the "Middle Way" if you think about it.

"The Buddha's message was simple but profound. Neither a life of self-indulgence nor one of self-mortification can bring happiness. Only a middle path, avoiding these two extremes, leads to peace of mind, wisdom, & complete liberation from the dissatisfactions of life."

~Bhante Gunaratana
Eight Mindful Steps to Happiness

Do a google search for "Eight Mindful Steps to Happiness" - I think there's an online version of that book.  This book (and others by the same author) shows that you can still live a Buddhist lifestyle, just not to the extremes required of a monk.
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VeryGnawty

This is why I don't like more popular versions of Buddhism.  Many have translated it to be "life is suffering" an attempt to meditate all day and give up material posessions.

But it's not really "life" that is suffering, but attachment and excess.  Rejecting society is just as bad as buying a shiny BMW to impress people.  The truly enlightened person will gain a high social standing and consume of the material world, understanding that neither those materials nor social status makes him any happier or smarter.

Attaching yourself to the idea of non-attachment was never a method of enlightenment.
"The cake is a lie."
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Constance

Quote from: redfish the metaphysician on April 22, 2008, 02:38:13 PM
Suffering may be unpleasant, but it can be very useful at times.
I have a love/hate relationship with this idea. Suffering is indeed a teacher. I'd just prefer a different teacher.

But again, there's preference rearing its ugly head.

VeryGnawty

Suffering is like the school teacher who becomes strict when her class won't sit still and shut up.  It was never necessary for learning to be painful.  The teacher was only harsh because we wouldn't sit still.

That's all meditation is.  It is being willing to sit still and shut up, so you can learn how foolishly you've been living your life.
"The cake is a lie."
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Pica Pica

i always thought it was sitting around waiting for your luck to change.
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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Constance

Quote from: Pica Pica on April 23, 2008, 01:58:44 AM
i always thought it was sitting around waiting for your luck to change.
I've got the luck of the Irish: if it weren't for bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all.

VeryGnawty

#7
Quote from: Shades O'Grey on April 23, 2008, 10:24:15 AM
I've got the luck of the Irish: if it weren't for bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all.

I've been having terrible luck lately too.  It's a good thing I meditate, otherwise I'd be throwing a tantrum like a toddler who just lost his teddy bear.
"The cake is a lie."
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Sarah

Quote from: Shades O'Grey on April 21, 2008, 12:36:10 PM
I was re-reading the Dhammapada when I came across this.
Quote
Resist the pleasure of life
And the desire to hurt --
Till sorrows vanish.
The second line makes sense to me: if I resist the desire to hurt others, I can help make sorrows vanish.

But, the first line seems to suggest that the Buddhist should be an ascetic, too, which I thought was something that went against the Middle Way.

If the Buddhist is to Resist the pleasure of life, how can one celebrate or take joy in life?

That's  a very bad translation.

That's one of the reasons why there are so many misconceptions about Buddhism.
Buddhism is not asceticism.

I would reccomend getting a Dharma book from an actual lineage rather than the Dhamapadda.
The Dhamapadda is just a collection of badly translated quotes with no copntext to go with them, so it's not like a sutra where you actually get the context.
That would be the route I would go is with an actual linniage or at least a whole sutra.

-Sara
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Constance

Quote from: Sarah on April 26, 2008, 05:31:15 PM
Buddhism is not asceticism.
Ever since first learning of the Middle Way, that's what I had thought. It seemed that ascetcism was just as flawed as sensualism. That's part of why this verse in the Dhammapada confused me.

My sangha is affiliated with San Francisco Zen Center, which is part of Suzuki Roshi's lineage. Maybe it's time I picked his book Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind. I was thinking of getting it for my wife for Mother's Day; I can always "borrow" it from her.

VeryGnawty

Quote from: Shades O'Grey on April 27, 2008, 01:10:35 PM
Ever since first learning of the Middle Way, that's what I had thought. It seemed that ascetcism was just as flawed as sensualism.

Asceticism is as flawed as sensualism.  Consumerism is an obsession with the material world.  Asceticism is an obsession with the rejection of the material world.

The Middle Way is about eliminating the obsession, not the materials.  The first Buddha was ascetic before he discovered The Middle Way.  But he learned that rejecting society wasn't any more enlightened than blindly following it.

The amount of materials or social contacts one has is irrelevant.  It's how one views and interacts with those resources that makes one enlightened.  If you throw away all of your movies and television, it does not make you enlightened, it makes you a fool.  If you watch a movie knowing that it won't bring you any more joy than you already have, you have allowed yourself to see what it means to be a Buddha.
"The cake is a lie."
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Sarah

Yes, of course we celebrate life.
And, as my Teacher told me:
   "You can't learn Buddhism from a book."
                                               



-Sara
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Smith

I tottally agree with you sister Seagull :D :D :D
Quote from: Sister Seagull on April 21, 2008, 03:06:43 PM
The idea is that pleasure as well as suffering can be an "attachment".  To rid yourself of your attachments is key to finding inner peace according to Buddhist philosophy.  This really is the "Middle Way" if you think about it.

"The Buddha's message was simple but profound. Neither a life of self-indulgence nor one of self-mortification can bring happiness. Only a middle path, avoiding these two extremes, leads to peace of mind, wisdom, & complete liberation from the dissatisfactions of life."

~Bhante Gunaratana
Eight Mindful Steps to Happiness

Do a google search for "Eight Mindful Steps to Happiness" - I think there's an online version of that book.  This book (and others by the same author) shows that you can still live a Buddhist lifestyle, just not to the extremes required of a monk.
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aisha




Vajrayana Buddhism celebrates life so intensely i met this guy who was telling me about it, his name was Gaelan, who said its about meditation, but not so much about body pose, but meditating through all things, his eyes were crazy they were always shifting fluttering and stuff, it was actually a condition he had, he talked about cops always giving him a hard time if he got pulled over or something, like what are you on man?
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aisha

i would like to be cured but its gotten to the point where, this is my life im glad its this way, i dont think i could stand a normal life, even if i didnt have schizophrenia more and more i wonder what that is.. i mean i guess its definitely more than weird, i guess the voices are not real, but there are so many kinds, so constant, its hard you are not even thinking about it
it used to be worse, when people spoke... now i am in a quieter room so i no longer hear conversations distorted into horribleness
thats the worst part about it, why i dont like to travel
but where has it left me
no one can really relate to me, i was looking through old stuff that i wrote, it seems like i joined a cult or something, a new way of life.. like i was wandering around sleeping in a shed for a while and then woah its schizophrenia...
but its actually not, theres just so many varieties of life, so many me's so many versions some of them knowing, some of them forgetting, thats the thing, there really is no foundation, what i mean is what is really real, there are amazing things that come in that way, but ur own your own im on my own i see that now, though i go out into people they will never understand, they want me to be a certain way, they say stop talking in riddles, make sense...
it makes perfect sense to me, i dont understand why they are trying to repress me, you begin to see the extent of yourself even into other people
and you know that you are everything
i see it and its true
everything is the self, this is yoga in some places, and even here, but its crazy, its endless boundless alone, howling at the sun
checkers in my vision, i walk towards the objects which seem far away
why...
my music is gone from me, i can complain if i want to
its different, just so different, if it was easy it would be easy, but it is not it doesnt even have a point or destination its just life
the whole thing, as always
the whole thing, who sees the whole thing
rambling wandering, none of them do, all of them together, who has breached that, none of us, sometimes it seems in writing, there are things that are prophetic, no one ever acknowledges this, i have even met myself in life, she has not acknowledged this.. i dont want to run at them and force them too... i guess its my job just to live with this realization conundrum among all the tortures distractions because really its not people that are doing it, nor is it anything external, it is your own mind, but melded with all things
because everything is mind, even air is mind....

and the heart... heart is mind
and spirit is mind

and they all translate to eachother but what i'm talking about is so real and so pointless to say here so i have
i've made this trail, it just looks like my life, nothing else, like life
i dont see it anywhere ive written so much eh totally not knowing what to do i surrender
to the smells, the feint smells the senses
all of it, these intentions they dissolve on me i pour into all of it, >-bleeped-< it... theres only so much you can take
and its gone now
im dead

but not yet cured
because they all understand primally, everyone you ever met, they do, they know you are the only one who really feels, who really goes through it, they know you are the one to lead them out, but they can't say it, why is our soul such? why? its an old yarners tale, at the edge of the coast lies oblivion and bliss these boats of flax and honey are no match
where does it matter again the letters the pounding incessant breathe all of it disoriented all the righting that ever happened none of them understand they think this must be this or that reaching for excuses, feeble defenses you just have to let yourself be destroyed utterly entirely, from not one source but all at the same time, thats the only way, thats what i invite, because it will work itself out that way ive been told you know its the kundalini, but in a way of course this is just a strange jargon and a magic note of peace
jesus christ, the rain and the feeling of You
the knowing of I, and the giving of the blue sky
down upon so many chestnuts each a universe, each a world, each still sleeping not yet done,
it is my time for bed says the universe, fifty zen moks approach
i licked the tigers foot, i said give me ulat's junk!

no a sea of arrows, soft as spaghetti, a pin of leaping pine... you dont understand the words
suddenly it doesnt make sense
be weary of them saying that, its more ritualistic than it seems, i tell you these are the gates which the matriarchs speak of
and those are the front door and every door after that
shut the front door, if i had windows with which to see, maybe the mind whom i am a cell for would understand that I am only the gardener and its been much havoc lately, but I will send flowers, of every color into the eyes of God
the rainforest will grow, things will happen in a certain blessed way
logic is a trap none of it can help benevolence is a sham, hold on only to the pillows
creeped out? this creeps you out? this is what i deal with, enlightening and frightening
the apple jars and the mad moon, yawning again for what purpose home alone... a car free... skiddig that moment
so can they be trusted either >-bleeped-< trust, the beingness of it all, i walk through this town listening to these cds, all these old cds, in this town and what will happen it all couldchange thats true i would have nothing to say aqbout it, there is wisdom in the tao, but that i have read it, i could never approach it, like a cat uneven on the path to anonymity
of a body in the throes of a psychic gestalt, meditation comes here, purely vajrayana buddhism
or something these must be held onto and the dharma makes itself whole, weaves itself of the emptiness and fullness
that it all lays bear, forever, everywhere it appears, and high are the guardians, vexed and adept
exchanging tales
No Talking!
the cool breeze of yanitude
all these people
none of them have ever existed
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