" ->-bleeped-<- ? "

[jan c]

Not everyone will, or may be as thick-skinned as some of us have already learned to be, and people should be more aware of this. To not do so, I beleive, is spiritually, morally, and ethically irresponsible in many potential ways. 

Lovingly and respectfully,

ChefAnnagirl

Here's the thing, and the ONLY reason I dared step up to the plate on this one.
If you are going to transition, you need to get that thick-skinned-did thang happening.
Mark my words.

I knew that I would be perceived as somewhat insensitive on this, but I honestly believe my message, GET THE THICK SKIN has substantially greater ethical value than I am worried about with the other, far far more subtle idea.


Posted at: June 03, 2006, 10:10:39 AMI got to worry about changing the world too while I transition?
too problematic.

[Melissa]

Hmmm, HRT has been making my skin thinner (both literally and emotionally) .  However, that doesn't mean I let things get to me.  Of course I learned bartending and you need to be really thick-skinned to do that.

Melissa

[Chynna]

This comment is in reference to Sheila's posting:

If we are getting to what pet peeve we have, mine is Drag Queens and Kings. I so don't like them up on stage as the general public thinks that is what a trans person is all about.

Please know in no way am I trying to attack you or argue with you or even say that your wrong. I am just merely trying to express a different way of looking at "Drag Queens" "Kings"
In a way I see and agree that none of "us" CD's,TS's, Gays etc. Should give in and act in a stereotypical fashion thereby confirm what "normal" society (LMAO) views us to be.
However, and I speak from experience having been on stage before and currently (unofficially) manging my best friends "drag career"
Must say that when "WE" (her & I) get on stage to perform it is because we have a love of entertaining people. Most of our shows are in Gay niteclubs with an audience being predominatly if not entirely gay so explain to me how we are reinforcing what the general public perceves Trans people to be if the audience is compilied of Trans & gay people in itself?
Where I reside it is extremely difficultif not damn near impossible for a Trans individual to find employment. So a lot of "the girls" And "guys" 🙂 (my best friends husband is a FtM Drag King) use the stage as a means of income and employment. Because for a lot of "us" and I only speak from what I see in my area it boils down to a simply reality question
" I can't find a job as a transgender person so I am left with 2 options "the stage" or Prostitution."
THAT is reality to a lot of us.
So to take away from the great importance of having "Drag queens & Kings" has a respectful alternative to the other options is to limit a group of individuals right to succeed effectly placing them\us back in "The Box" society seems to want to place all of us in.

But again you have everyright to that opinion I just want to share with you that there are always 2 sides to evry coin...even if its double headed!!

I apologize if I have offend anyone in advance
"But hey, I got to be ME!"

Impartial to Judgement
Chynna    

[jan c]

Let me share a thing about my adopted home town and a real funny spot, at the junction of the Tenderloin and Polk Gulch.
->-bleeped-<-Shack.
The audience is composed of: gays. Drag queens. Drag queen wannabes. Slightly queer straight-acting guys. Kinky but otherwise normal ggs. Transsexuals. Transgenderists. Tourists. In fact U-Name-It.
under the banner ->-bleeped-<-shack.
think about it.
is that too subtle?

[Melissa]

Must say that when "WE" (her & I) get on stage to perform it is because we have a love of entertaining people. Most of our shows are in Gay niteclubs with an audience being predominatly if not entirely gay so explain to me how we are reinforcing what the general public perceves Trans people to be if the audience is compilied of Trans & gay people in itself?

I  have had a gay man recently come on to me  and attempt to have sex with me because he assumed a transsexual was the same thing as a drag queen.  It was actually quite traumatizing because he saw me as male.  So if gay people have these misconceptions, what makes you think that they don't interact with straight people and reinforce this misconception?

Melissa

[Chynna]

So if gay people have these misconceptions, what makes you think that they don't interact with straight people and reinforce this misconception?

True statement, but within your own story this individual "assumed" because he didn't know there was a such thing as a TS. In life there will always be Misconceptions we are all guilty of that.
But ask youself this if these gay people interact with straight people then the chance of the straight people having a misconception are drastically dropped. For I know no "straight" person who interacts with gays, TS or etc that have this narrow minded misconception. For you to interact with most Gays, TS, etc. is to learn by experience that we all don't act the same way....

Does every gay person like Cher?
Is every gay person articulant & can dress and decorate?
Does every MtF transsexual think they are or want to be a female?
Are all MtF TS attracted to men?
Because you found a gay man hitting on you as traumatizing does that make you homophobic?

our whole life style is filled with misconceptions you cant stop that fact no matter how hard you try.

misconceived at birth
Chynna

[jan c]

people will have their misconceptions reinforced according to how they wish to have their misconconceptions reinforced. They will take that where they can get it, like that 'gay man' with hot pants for u.

and sometimes a 'drag queen' is a transsexual with a job in the entertainment industry, as Chynna pointed out.

reality is, all kind of people will perceive a DIFFERENCE as exotic. Exciting. Get a little woody behind it. Act on that.
dealing with it is one of life's tests.

I was dealing with what you just cited, Melissa all through my teen years. Ya get used to it. You develop coping skills, like a sense of humor about it. You gotta believe life is pretty hilarious, you gotta look at it like that. Otherwise the torture never stops.

[Annie Social]

Most of our shows are in Gay niteclubs with an audience being predominatly if not entirely gay so explain to me how we are reinforcing what the general public perceves Trans people to be if the audience is compilied of Trans & gay people in itself?

Well, I think the general public gets a fair amount of exposure to drag performers, through movies & television as well as direct exposure. The point, though, is that it's just wrong to put someone down for being who they are; you would think that we of all people would be more tolerant.

While I may dislike the fact the the public's perception of us is highly colored by their awareness of drag kings & queens, I see the fault as lying with both a public that is too lazy to actually find out something about a subject before forming an opinion (and too comfortable with perceptions that match their prejudices), as well as a TS community that puts more emphasis on passing and going stealth than it does on informing the public and fighting for recognition as human beings.

What is needed is not to stop people from seeing drag performers, but to make them more aware of how and why we are different. This is one of the reasons I was so happy with the success of Transamerica; it provided a different view of transgendered people, both to the people who saw it, and to everyone who saw Felicity Huffman's Golden Globes acceptance speech.

Annie

[HelenW]

You gotta believe life is pretty hilarious, you gotta look at it like that. Otherwise the torture never stops.

Thanks, Jan, I needed that!  I have been tending to take things way too seriously lately.

helen

[Melissa]

True statement, but within your own story this individual "assumed" because he didn't know there was a such thing as a TS. In life there will always be Misconceptions we are all guilty of that.

Not true.  I told him I was TS and what it was about.  It didn't matter.  He was convinced that I was just a gay in denial.  The point is that he didn't understand what a TS is.

Melissa

[Chynna]

So what you're saying is "he was just an A__hole"
OK correction im saying that

Nice to know A__holes just dont come in heterosexual men but are everywhere! 😀

The saga continues
Chynna

[Robyn]

  He was convinced that I was just a gay in denial.  The point is that he didn't understand what a TS is.

Melissa

Maybe he is a fan of Michael Bailey's The Man Who Would be Queen. 

Thick skin or not, one thing that has helped me is the thought that whatever people think or have to say about me is none of my business.  That said, the only abusive language I had to endure personally came from my ex when she tried to kill me.

I run a news list for older TGs, mostly MTF and FTMs  TS over the age of 50.  All in all, a fairly mellow, mature crowd.  A good number live in the Pacific Northwest, and we have had 6 what I term 'Traditional ->-bleeped-<- Thanksgiving' celebrations at our house with upwards of 25 pre and postop TS at our house.  No hidden message in the ->-bleeped-<- moniker; it has a certain rythym to it, and it just stuck.  We were on the East Coast last year, and our friends missed our party.  Hopefully, we can hold the 7th TTT this year before we head off on our vacation of a lifetime.

Robyn

[Melissa]

So what you're saying is "he was just an A__hole"
OK correction im saying that

Nice to know A__holes just dont come in heterosexual men but are everywhere! 😀

The saga continues
Chynna

In a nutshell, yes.

Melissa

[Chynna]

LMAO

Much luv Melissa!

We've secretly replaced your wife with
Chynna
Lets watch and see what happens!

[ChefAnnagirl]

"Their only words. It's the context that counts. It's the user. It's the intention behind the words that makes them good or bad. The words are completely neutral. The words are innocent. I get tired of people talking about bad words and bad language. Bullsh**! It's the context that makes them good or bad." -George Carlin,  Parental Advisory Explicit Lyrics Album

http://www.iceboxman.com/carlin/pael.php#track14 🔗

Melissa

Ever been accused of something you weren't guilty of ?  If so, was your life or another's literally hanging in the balance as a result ? The accusation was comprised of words, innocent or not, and these words carried specific and dire consequences, and all the worse if the words were misinterpreted, misused, mispercieved by others, inaccurate, distorted, or just plain lies. Try that feeling on for size, and then tell me "it's only words"... Ever personally known someone that's been killed, jailed, or tortured as a political prisoner of conscience for simply and openly speaking about love, liberty, and the inalienable rights of freewill and honest expression amongst all fellow beings ? These were "just words" too, and millions of people around the world are still losing their lives, homes, families, and all creature comforts which so many take for granted, all because of the millenia of ulative effects of the use, misuse, and unfair, untrue, and distorted concepts of religious, socioeconomic, and political doctrine and dogma which, by the specific use of words and the perception thereof, has undoubtedly contributed over the ages. The continued lack of clear communication between people of all cultures, races, religions, and demograhpics. All because of "just words".

I find it interesting that regardless of having a stronger constitution, thicker skin if you will, many that have responded to this post seem to have pointedly avoided acknowledging the simple fact that deeper awareness, conscious care, loving thoughtfulness, good manners, and just plain consideration in the use of specific words and language could be more helpful to all of us, in a world still riddled with prejudice, persecution, distortion, misrepresentation, and murder of the innocent. After all, wouldnt it make sense to do these things sometimes, considering that the specific use of words and language both is at the very heart of the matter where both perception and therefore ultimately, most of human conflict and misunderstanding is and has been rooted since the beginning of doented history ?

If one is not willing to be part of the solutions to problems within society and culture, which by the way, once again has most often been rooted in perception and the closely interlinked relation of the specific use of words and language, as the primary key to this equation, then you may be part of the apathetic or unwilling, and therefore part of the problems instead of the solutions. Since some have seen fit to take both my meanings and the specific language i have used, entirely out of context in order to make their points, i felt that this must be said.

Please forgive me for any offense, but i personally believe that a lot of folks really need to wake up a little bit more on this one, and that in so doing, it can and will help all that are still struggling to just be our truest selves without fear of death, torture, persecution, misinterpretation, bigotry, prejudice, shame, or total misperception. 

If what has been said in response is true, then all language and the use of specific words to communicate specific thoughts, concepts, and ideas would become meaningless as well. I think this would be untrue. The legal systems of the world would no longer function at all, legal contracts would become meaningless, compassionate and passionate exression of specific feelings in words or writing which could either effect highly positive or deeply negative change, would lose all value and meaning....

In some of the response/assertions that have been made, this would also entirely invalidate many people's very real and very personal individual experiences via exposure to events that have deeply hurt and traumatized countless multitudes of people, such as has occurred in racism for example, or the childhood trauma many have suffered quite tangibly as a result of verbal and mental abuse from others....The examples are countless, and the heart of the matter is in the meaning and the specific use of words and language. If you can say that the word "love" has no meaning other than what people have assigned to it over countless ages, then why create and use such a word to begin with ? If the word "bullsh---" has no meaning in this same manner, why use it ? Sure, it may be replaced with a similar word or expression, but the word itself still carries a specific vibration of meaning since it's original inception, and will likely create it's equal and similar response in the perception of others when used.

Most sincerely and respectfully,


ChefAnnagirl

[Melissa]

"Their only words. It's the context that counts. It's the user. It's the intention behind the words that makes them good or bad. The words are completely neutral. The words are innocent. I get tired of people talking about bad words and bad language. Bullsh**! It's the context that makes them good or bad." -George Carlin,  Parental Advisory Explicit Lyrics Album

http://www.iceboxman.com/carlin/pael.php#track14 🔗

Melissa

Hi CAG,

If somebody says "I need to take my car in to get the ->-bleeped-<- rebuilt", do you get offended?  I don't.  If somebody says to you "Are you one of those ->-bleeped-<-s?" would you get offended?  Most likely yes.  It's the same word, but used in different contexts.  One being offensive and the other one not.  The word itself is nothing by itself, it's how it is used.

Additionally, it also depends on who uses the word.  If it's an obvious bigot, then you would get offended, but if it's another transsexual using it jokingly, you probably wouldn't.  I personally am offended when a non-transsexual uses the word when referring to a ->-bleeped-<-, transsexual or transgendered individual.  However, if used in most other contexts, I would not be offended.  For instance, I am not offended by the fact that you titled this post "->-bleeped-<-".

By the way, what happened?  Did somebody call or refer to you as a ->-bleeped-<-?

Melissa

[ChefAnnagirl]

Hi Melissa,

No, no such thing has happened. I just decided to talk about a particular word, that to me, for some unexplainable reason, hits me in the guts as carrying a negative "vibrational meaning" feeling, or connotation. I don't personally like the word, in fact, for this "gut instinct" reason, i dislike it very much in almost any context that refers to someone like myself.

You have made an outstanding and completely valid point in both use of context and in the source and nature of the communication/communicator/recipient equation, and i compliment you in this.

This, however, was not entirely and only my point in many ways. i have modified and expanded on the last posting to clarify even further.

Thanks,

Lovingly always,


ChefAnnagirl   

[DawnL]

I see this as a tempest in a teapot.

It's just a word...sticks and stones may be a childhood phrase but still relevant here.  As it happens, I'm a woman and don't consider the term relevant to who I am.  I dislike political correctness because it goes against the grain of free speech that I feel trumps the feelings of any one person or group of people.  Should we dub "fatty" as a similar word since surely some fat people are offended?  I hope not.  One rare exception is probably "->-bleeped-<-" since it is tied uniquely to slavery and the subjugation of an entire race.  If we make "->-bleeped-<-" part of a subset of words deemed offensive, suddenly the list is huge and worthless. 

Dawn

[Annie Social]

One rare exception is probably "->-bleeped-<-" since it is tied uniquely to slavery and the subjugation of an entire race.  If we make "->-bleeped-<-" part of a subset of words deemed offensive, suddenly the list is huge and worthless.

Another point worth making is that while "->-bleeped-<-" may have once been used by some out of ignorance, it soon became almost exclusively a term of intentional derision. I don't think that most people who use the word "->-bleeped-<-" are intending it to be a slur; if we make it into one, we provide the bigots with an epithet to use against us.

It's almost the reverse of what has happened to the word "queer". By embracing the term, the gay community has taken it away from those who would use it to hurt people. When I was young, "queer" was one of the most hateful things you could call someone; today, it's used in the title of a television show!

Annie

[jan c]

got to delve in here

I find it interesting that regardless of having a stronger constitution, thicker skin if you will, many that have responded to this post seem to have pointedly avoided acknowledging the simple fact that deeper awareness, conscious care, loving thoughtfulness, good manners, and just plain consideration in the use of specific words and language could be more helpful to all of us, in a world still riddled with prejudice, persecution, distortion, misrepresentation, and murder of the innocent. After all, wouldnt it make sense to do these things sometimes, considering that the specific use of words and language both is at the very heart of the matter where both perception and therefore ultimately, most of human conflict and misunderstanding is and has been rooted since the beginning of doented history ?

I have implied herein that all of that, 100%, IS A GIVEN, and that I personally do not require a lecture on it from the ivory tower.

If one is not willing to be part of the solutions to problems within society and culture, which by the way, once again has most often been rooted in perception and the closely interlinked relation of the specific use of words and language, as the primary key to this equation, then you may be part of the apathetic or unwilling, and therefore part of the problems instead of the solutions. Since some have seen fit to take both my meanings and the specific language i have used, entirely out of context in order to make their points, i felt that this must be said.

cite examples of how this was done here.

In some of the response/assertions that have been made, this would also entirely invalidate many people's very real and very personal individual experiences via exposure to events that have deeply hurt and traumatized countless multitudes of people, such as has occurred in racism for example, or the childhood trauma many have suffered quite tangibly as a result of verbal and mental abuse from others...

Take a walk in my shoes, thru my history and tell me about that one.
(If one's feelings are so easily invalidated, they would appear to be somewhat suspect in the first place. The subject as I understand it was the outrage that is the word '->-bleeped-<-'. Get real.)
Now if YOU are the one that has been so exposed, you have my sincerest apologies re: the stance I have assumed.
It all honestly sounds like bleeding heart stuff to me. The very level of expression you are deploying screams of the ivory tower and privilege.
"A ->-bleeped-<- has to be somewhat tough", I stand by this assertion.




Posted at: June 08, 2006, 02:33:47 PMand it may have a vibrational meaning that is negative
sounds banjo-like to me
thin and metallic
has to be fit into the orchestration with the same care as any other sound

but you aren't talking about the sound or the rhythm
you have attached an emotional weight to the word as meaning
that was your choice to do or not do
until someone starts seriously talking about doing something about the ->-bleeped-<- problem
(there was a 'Negro problem', Germany had a 'Jewish problem';
that's some real stuff)
tempest in a teaspoon is what you got here.