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I think I'm a girl so I must be homosexual.

Started by 4years, June 24, 2005, 10:06:14 PM

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Sara

Leigh, I dont like the use of any of any of those words to describe ones gender but society in general does. The word gay has many meanings and they do not have anything to do with gender. So who is the one that put the labels on gender, male or female. When I say gay I use it broadly (I myself am bisexual) a much kinder expression of the term liking two sexes but I dont even like using that word. SO WHAT ARE WE WITHOUT THE LABELS.

Sara.

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Kimberly

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Hazumu

I'll add one thing.  If I found out I was gay, I'd be comfortable with the knowledge, the way I'm comfortable and accepting of myself as a TS girl (now I just gotta' get my therapist to agree with me ;-)

One thing I keep reading about transitioning transsexuals is that often they're surprised at the orientation they end up with, whether straight, lesbian or bi.  It's a separate factor from the desire to BE female.

And thank you Leigh for the correction of terminology.  It's just plain considerate to the people who have chosen to accept that label for themselves.

Haz
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Sara

Hazumu, Exactly but what if just what if they said no you are definately gay. how do they know for gods sake. Who gives them the right to say to you, no you cannot go on hormones or you must stop because you are that way and then give you medication to control your brain into being wishy washy and confused even more. Some can be so wrong, then what happens?

Sara.
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Kimberly

You find people who have a clue what GID is.

Presuming it was those people who don't think you suffer from GID then you and them need to talk because some connection isn't made.

So what happens after all that and you both know everything and they think you definitely do not suffer from GID?

One of you is right, but which? Presumably they have a lot of experience in the subject so perhaps they do know what they are talking about.

You go soul searching and perhaps a bit of experimenting if you like.

If that does nothing for you then you talk to your therapist more. A LOT more.

They (therapists) are not stupid nor are they malicious (the good ones anyway); Trust in them to a point but also trust yourself; Only you truly know, but you can so easily not understand what you know.
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Hazumu

Quote from: Sara on January 22, 2006, 08:29:08 PM
Hazumu, Exactly but what if just what if they said no you are definately gay. how do they know for gods sake. Who gives them the right to say to you, no you cannot go on hormones or you must stop because you are that way and then give you medication to control your brain into being wishy washy and confused even more. Some can be so wrong, then what happens?

Okay, has your therapist told you you are gay?  I'm wondering if that is some sort of a test...

My mother, while she was alive, would from time to time tell me it was okay to be gay.  I'm glad we could comfortably have these conversations, but I always had to tell her, no, I've really considered it, I've looked deeply within myself, and even with your support and permission, I can't go there because I have no desire to go there.

Now, being around gays was an interesting experience for me.  I had no desire to be gay, I had no personal fear or revulsion of gays, but I had a fear of being seen associating with gays because of the predatory alpha males.  So in the locker rooms and amongst groups of alpha males I 'talked the talk', and felt badly afterwards for dissing fellow human beings.

Now, being anywhere near transsexuals -- that was a wholly different feeling.  Have you ever felt attracted and repelled at the same time?  My guess is my tyrannical superego was working overtime, trying to keep me away from the very thing some part of me desired -- needed -- very much.  It was a wonderfully designed Catch-22, too.  I could wish to be reincarnated as a girl, I could wish that I had been born female, but if I even thought about actually pursuing transition, the bad ole' superego would step in with 'You'll never be a FULLY functioning woman, you can't have it, so shut up and get over it!!"  But I remember watching with fascination an episode of the Phil Donahue show (back when it was the most controversial talks show on,) that had post-surgery Wendy Carlos as a guest.  But, as usual, I was told by me to 'get over it.'

There's a TG lady who just retired from her job here.  When I first saw her, I read her, because she wasn't trying to pass or anything (and I have to admire her comfort with and acceptance of herself.)  Superego stepped in and I spent over a year avoiding her.  But really, in retrospect, I was being made to avoid myself.  And realizing that was part of getting out of the full-nelson lock that my superego had me in.

Okay, what's this got to do with being told your gay by your therapist?  You've got to be honest with yourself -- really honest.  Do you have any feelings at all towards other men while you're still phisically male?  What's the character of the 'no' you hear inside yourself?  Is it a calm 'no' or a desperate, screaming "NOOO!!!"  That's a clue. 

If you're still sure you're not gay, try convincing your therapist.  Maybe it really is a test.  But if its not and your therapist insists you're really gay so no hormones for YOU, the problem may be with your therapist.  Thank him or her for their time, and go try another therapist.  Sure, it's a setback, and you've wasted all that time and money, but you'd just be sending bad money after good if you stayed.  Doctors and therapist alike sometimes develop god complexes, and feel they are infallable at spotting, labeling and pigeonholing people into different 'types'.  But diagnosing GID and TS are not exact sciences.

As to finding a new therapist, try to find one who recognizes that homosexuality and GID are not exclusive conditions -- that they can coexist, and who is willing to use a trial HRT as a diagnostic tool  -- basically at about four months as the effects of the estrogen and the testosterone blockers really take hold, it seperates the girls from the boys.

In my case, my superego did such a wonderful job of blocking me from my feelings that my therapist told me I hadn't crossdressed enough to be GID.  That's one of the things he said that session that sent me into a tailspin and prompted me to pour my spinning thoughts into a four page fax that he said caused him to re-evaluate me as being more likely to be GID.

Just remember GID is the diagnosis, but there's as many flavors of GID as there are people who 'suffer' from it (funny, I suffered more from running away from it, and thing have already got a whole lot better by accepting this part of myself.  go figure...)  Stay true to yourself.  Keep on pushing through.  And don't ever lose your spirit.

(Dang, Kimberly, I see you beat me to the post.  Your advice is good too.  I'm counseling that there may be a time to cut your losses.)

Sara, it's ultimately up to you.  But this message board is here, we're here to consult with.  Take a few steps, whatever you deem appropriate, then ask questions.  You'll make it, eventually.

Haz
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Victoria L.

Therapists are so darn stubborn... ::)

I simply just don't talk to them about it, in fact my last therapist check (like earlier this month) they signed me off as normal and happy... :o hehe, so fake... I'm not happy at all... I guess I did a good show of hiding it.

I'm not taking hormones or anything, and I'm starting to feel things for guys, but I feel things for girls too.

I'm soooo confused on which to like... so why not like both? LOL.

EDIT: I'm not saying it's my choice.

I'm not one to be influenced by society, but I was once... and that's how I started to like girls, thinking it was normal... but lately, finding out who I really am, all of those feelings kept short from growing now are...

and guys, appeal more to me. ;D
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Sara

Gees Louise! that was inspiring.

Here is what I do know (in a calm low voice) No I am not gay, I am bisexual but only slightly. By that I mean it really has to be the right guy for me before I will have anything to do with them. (if that makes sense)
Yes I am definately a girl.
Yes I have been wearing blouses skirts dresses and nice underwear for many years.
Yes I wear makeup
Yes I have been on hormones for 5 years
Yes I am going to have surgery
Yes I have told my wife this
Yes she accepts that I will no longer be male
Yes I accept this

And I have had time off hormones due to ill health and have discovered that I am a mess without them, so I truly know that this is the right path for me.

It's not really about the gay part of it that bothers me, its just that some people can judge you a certain way before they even know you. I think that a session here and there with a shrink is good if you have issues of that nature but they certainly should not imply that you are one way or another without getting to know you first and that can take years... Do I have the money to go through therapy that long NOT A CHANCE!

The only reason why I am seeing a therapist is because of my problems with stress and depression caused by being off the hormones and of course to get the official papers needed to have the op. I have already prooved to my Endo that being off the meds is not good for my health and he agrees.

Sara.
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Kimberly

Quote from: Hazumu on January 22, 2006, 11:03:24 PM...
Now, being around gays was an interesting experience for me.  I had no desire to be gay, I had no personal fear or revulsion of gays, but I had a fear of being seen associating with gays because of the predatory alpha males.  So in the locker rooms and amongst groups of alpha males I 'talked the talk', and felt badly afterwards for dissing fellow human beings.
...

Ouch.
Been there, done that for exactly the same reasons.
Have I mentioned I hate society lately? *shrug*


Quote from: Victoria on January 22, 2006, 11:29:00 PM
Therapists are so darn stubborn... ::)

I simply just don't talk to them about it, in fact my last therapist check (like earlier this month) they signed me off as normal and happy... :o hehe, so fake... I'm not happy at all... I guess I did a good show of hiding it.

I'm not taking hormones or anything, and I'm starting to feel things for guys, but I feel things for girls too.

I'm soooo confused on which to like... so why not like both? LOL.

EDIT: I'm not saying it's my choice.

I'm not one to be influenced by society, but I was once... and that's how I started to like girls, thinking it was normal... but lately, finding out who I really am, all of those feelings kept short from growing now are...

and guys, appeal more to me. ;D

Victoria, it is my opinion that you should find a qualified therapist and then talk to them *duck* No really, and trust me on this, it doesn't get any better. Hiding, in my honest opinion, is NOT A GOOD FREEKING IDEA! *giggle*
Actually I need to rephrase that, it is a good idea when you are surrounded by people without a clue and/or bad intentions. I feel strongly about hiding because I did, as the saying goes if I only knew then what I knew now...

As for sexual preference... bah, very definitely not society's business.

Just a few thoughts from a big sister (=

Tori is such a sweet name by the way.


Quote from: Sara on January 23, 2006, 12:03:09 AM...
I am bisexual but only slightly. By that I mean it really has to be the right guy for me before I will have anything to do with them. (if that makes sense)
...

To me, it makes perfect sense as my thoughts run similar.
FWIW (=
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rana

for many years I was concerned that I may have been homosexual.  I often wished I was a woman and had fantasies as a woman - taking a womans role with woman and men.  homosexual, lesbian who knows - I certainly did not.

Such were my worries that I stayed far away from transexuals and gay people.  When it was suggested that I may have been homophobic I response was I am not scared of them - I bloody well did not like them.  In truth I was scared, not of them, but of what contact with them may have revealed about me :(

I eventually saw a therapist, was such a worthwhile & uplifting experience.  She was not experienced/qualified in transgender issues, - she was prepared to refer me to those who were.  But, it did not matter - what she did show me was how to think about myself, question myself, view myself - that which was important.

Hazumu, I reckon fantasies are unimportant - its a way our mind explores.  The real test would be, Do those fantasies carry over in real life?  Do you see a man and think "He looks sexy, cute, etc. I wonder what it would be like if...... (that is you initiate the feeling, if a man comes on to you, other factors may play eg, confusion, curiousity  etc)
If you don't have those feelings when you see a man then I would say you are not.
homosexual. 

However, if you feel that you have reached a point where you no longer think of yourself as anything other than a woman :(  then I truely don't know.  My brain starts to ache :(

Starts spouting on only to realise
she knows bugger all :(

rana
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Sara

What difference does it make if you are homosexual or not when you know you are a girl?

I think some guys are cute, some are definately not and most are hard to be around sometimes but then again I find myself saying I like females but I have found out this is purely because of the love and effection I lost as a child. So maybe I am gay, who knows but from where I sit, feeling like the way I do is sorta natural cause a female can choose who she wants to be with just the same as a man can.

Sara.
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stephanie

I remember when I came out to my therapist, one of the first questions she asked was, "do you consider yourself gay?"  And I said no.  Then she asked me, "so if you're straight, and a woman inside, that means you're attracted to guys?"  And I stopped to think about it.  She wasn't saying it to trick me, or because she felt that way, it was a question designed to get me thinking.

And it did.

From that point on, I stopped using the terms "straight" and "gay."  Whenever the question of my sexuality comes up, I use the absolute definition.  "I'm attracted to women."  There is no doubts left after that, except which label to throw on it.  And I could care less about labels.

So I'd suggest not thinking in relative terms, and define your sexuality (if it's ever needed to be defined) as an absolute.  You're either attracted to women, attracted to men, or attracted to both sexes.
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Sara

Stephanie, you have made so much sense in what you have said. I never thought of it that way and to think I was scared to death on how to combat that question with the therapist if were ever to arise.

Sara.
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Kimberly

I answered with "asexual bisexual" and clearly stated that I had no problems if I liked guys only, girls only or both. With both being what I currently thought (think still for that matter.)
Regardless, given that I'm still a virgin the entire topic went by rather fast *snicker*.
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stephanie_craxford

Quote from: stephanieremember when I came out to my therapist, one of the first questions she asked was, "do you consider yourself gay?"  And I said no.  Then she asked me, "so if you're straight, and a woman inside, that means you're attracted to guys?"  And I stopped to think about it.  She wasn't saying it to trick me, or because she felt that way, it was a question designed to get me thinking.

And this was the same question that went through my mine when I posted the topic "Ramblings - I'm Hetro - Right?"  here https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,1950.0.html

Steph
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Sara

Stephanie, I think its time these Doctors came up with a new word for those who have thought about it but cant decide if they are or if they are not. Im still very much confused as to who I am and where I fit in and the comment that I am in a grey area by my doctor didnt help any. Every day I battle with my emotions over this topic and yours and I shouldnt cause it takes up what little space I have left to worry about evrything else. Here is the question are we more tuned in to our emotions than others and is that why we get so confused not only about issues of sexuality but everything else as well?

Sara.
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Kimberly

I think that at least some of the confusion comes from having to repress our feelings to be "socially acceptable".
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jan c

re: "One of you is right, but which? Presumably they have a lot of experience in the subject so perhaps they do know what they are talking about."
what? they have a lot of 'experience' (they have no experience BEING this person) so they KNOW what they are talking about. This is deferring authority. Seems to be a person that is behaving as a girl, pretty darned convinced is a girl, the fact that this is not matching the gonads, indicates to this NON expert, that that girl is Dysphoric per her Gender Indentiy. Defer all the authority to an artificial source because of professional status, claimed authority, experience, dogmatically, don't question authority? I'm not buying it.
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Kimberly

No, I say that because it is stupidly easy to be totally clueless. Yes, we SHOULD (keyword there) know who we are better than anyone else on this planet, however if people who are familiar with the topic see things differently than you then perhaps there is a good reason for it which should be examined.

Note how I said what I said... "Presumably they have a lot of experience in the subject so perhaps they do know what they are talking about." No definite statement is made, just because (for instance) they say I'm delusional does not make it so. As far as that goes, I've never condoned not questioning authority.
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Hazumu

Quote from: Kimberly on February 15, 2006, 07:34:39 PM
Yes, we SHOULD (keyword there) know who we are better than anyone else on this planet, [...]


I managed to delude myself for years that I was a guy, I could never be a girl, and that was that - get over it...

My personal epiphany was realizing that I'd been living my life as a female trying to play the role of the male her body told her she was, and continually running up against the strains of trying to behave as I should, rather than as I am.  Realizing that and accepting myself as myself was probably the hardest part of my transition -- after all, it took me almost 50 years to do it!  I'll add that the benefits of accepting myself were almost immediate.  I'm much more at ease around people and more spontaneous, and I haven't even started HRT yet (maybe the package will arrive by next week...)

As to the straight-or-gay question?  I say with the transsexual it's as moot as the boxers-or-briefs question (at least for M-to-F'ers  >:D )

Haz
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