The Kingdom of Heaven is Within You. Do you agree?

[Rana]

I have a feeling that I have lived other lives (one other at least    ) and it appears that others of us here have had similar experiences that they can remember.
I have a feeling that I was a soldier of the Confederate forces in your Civil War.  No dashing southern gentleman, rather some poor white trash trooper who was too ignorant/stubborn/brave to get moving but held his ground with no choices then left other than to die.  That's all I can identify with,  and in many ways thats a good description of me now

What really touches me concerning my religion is Christs life,  the questions he asked (there are only seven I believe) and his parables especially concerning the Kingdom of Heaven.
"The Kingdom of Heaven is like a mustard seed"  "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you"  "The labourers in the vinyard" "The prodigal son" .

The riches of the Kingdom bear no relation to the effort one goes to but are showered on those who prove worthy.

By that very approach even Adolph Hitler could go to Heaven, along with his victims who bore the brunt of his evil with stoicism and faith.  What it would take is that he be truely sorry.

I know this would be offensive to many people (the Catholic notion of purgatory was inspired by such apparent unfairness) but that's the whole point of the parables.  Like in the prodigal son. he was lost but now he is found.

This only makes sense to me if our very existence here is totally illusory, meaningless in the scheme of things.  The only benefit and point being our attitude.  That this all being some sort of test.  Now if God is infinite, one life is all we need.  God would be able to see from how we "performed" whether we proved worthy - sorted us into the sheep & the goats.   So where does this notion of past lives come in?   The Buddists believe in it & it makes sense.  Tinkerbell mentioned each life as a series of courses, and this makes more sense to me.

My take on things is that we are here again & again not to test us but to enable us to improve.  That all souls are worthy and can learn from experiences.  So we are here again & again for our sake. Not a question of success or failure but eventually every one of us will attain the Kingdom of Heaven.

Geez I am tired & maybe should have left this post till when my mind was better organised, but I had to get it off my chest.   

love
Rana

[Robyn]

In   Conversations With God, Volume 1, God tells Neal Donald Walsh that Hitler is indeed in Heaven.

You might want to look into A Course in Miracles (ACIM), Rana.  Among other things, it deals with the illusion in which we live and teaches that we are all 'saved' because the separation from God exists only in our minds. 

You can buy the book new at places like Borders or Amazon, but I bet you can find a used one at eBay's half.com site.  It can be a hard read by onesself, but there are free weekly study groups all over the country/world. 

The only part of time that is eternal is NOW.

Robyn

[Tiffany2]

  The way I see this scripture is probably a little fifferent from most and while it may open the door to criticizm I'l post it anyway. Not to sway or convert anyone but just because I see it as hope and not something to judge who has the kingdom and who is damned.
  The word of God says the kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost.
  To me, if Christ is our righteousness and we believe that he fulfilled all righteousness in fulfilling the law in giving his life for our sins we have righteousness within us. Hence; we have the kingdom within us.
  It says in Ephesians he is our peace and it says that he holds the covenant of peace between man and the wrath of God. If we have that peace of God within us (not as the world gives) then we have the kingdom.
  It says that the joy of the Lord is our strength. If we have the Lord as our strength in the hard times and when we are weak we have the kingdom.
  John the baptist said he must increase and I must decrease so if the fruits of the spirit and our faith increases as that grain of mustardseed grows within us in a sense we have the kingdom of God within us.
  Also; like the three measures of leaven that leaveneth the lump our faith should grow as well. All of these parables I see as hope.
  To me the things in the word of God go a little farther than just gathering to judge those who live a little differently and trying to see if someone has the kingdom or spirit of God within them by the outward appearance.
  And of course when the Lord rode into Jerusalem they shouted blessed be the kingdom of our father David that cometh in the name of the Lord. It says what God hath blessed is blessed forever and it is Christ that has been blessed forever by his Father with endless days so if we have Christ in our hearts by faith we have the kingdom of heaven within us.
  But that's just my opinion.

  Tiffany

[Elizabeth]

My take on things is that we are here again & again not to test us but to enable us to improve.  That all souls are worthy and can learn from experiences.  So we are here again & again for our sake. Not a question of success or failure but eventually every one of us will attain the Kingdom of Heaven.

When I was in fifth or sixth grade I read a book called Jonathon Livingston Seagullhttp://www.lib.ru/RBACH/seagullengl.txt

If I remember correctly the theme of this book was a continual series of incarnations until eventually you live enough lives to learn everything you will ever need to know. Then you reached a similar state of "Nervana", although I don't remember what it is called because I read it so long ago. It is a very well thought out explanation of this theology.

Love always,
Elizabeth

PS,

That book was not a school assignment, I only meant that as a reference to my age.

[Ricki]

Wow Elizabeth i read that book a few years ago a friend suggested it to me-very cool!
Very easy reading but what i got out of it was the problem the seagull had in conforming to the group he was in he wanted soo depserately to be different, he felt he was different and he tried to do things that seagulls did not do.. That caused anxiety and seperated him from his peers, anyway that was my take on it (in short too much to try and type) as i said a friend mentioned it was good reading due to my indifferences with my gender and the conformity of the area and my family...But i know enough to know that no two people look at the same picture the same or gather from a reading the same..
ahhhh.... which i guess is why the bible and religion continues to be such a mystery....I profess to be less than a layman when it comes to reading the scripture, understanding it, or even following it accurately.
I believe in a god, A kingdom or next place to go, and in angels.  My faith is not always reassured but most of the time it seems to me it is whether that is through comfort-a feeling- or something that happens after i pray or commune...
I pray for nothing more in  my next life but to be whole and at peace.  In this life i ask for so many things and also ask for forgiveness as i do sin as others do.  I hope that when my judgement day comes God will accept me into the next level and see there is malice in my heart.
The whole thing about being saved or being judged is hard for me but i truly think that is not a concept we as humans can indulge in or to be trusted to administer, for surely our God is perfect; and being perfect will clearly be the final judge of a persons lifes works, their sins, and where they fall into the afterlife?
For us or me anyway i think it is soo hard to say someone like hitler is in heaven or hell...???We are not the final judge of his life God was and maybe in a level of thinking or purity that is beyond us humans God judges to his standard not ours.  Many people would like to see peoples such as this in a never ending hell, I know i have said it many times when bad people have done horrible things my god will be the judge of those actions and this person, yes i secretly think or hope that a future of hell exists for such a bad peson or persons that commit such crimes but my God may not?  Didn't the scriptures say that we are not to judge?
I do not know all very very theological to me??
I do believe that the next life or the after life is not necessarily a physcial place rather a spiritual place.  Guess i have to because in my small brian i cannot for the life of me create a place of bliss that heaven is to be and draft that in my head..
Rana your post intrigues me cause i know whether they were glimpses of dreams or what i have felt like that like i was somewhere before not just dreaming a dream but in snapshots in my head from time to time i have seen myself in the past i do not have a clear picture of what i was or doing but the feeling is there and the blurred images are there, every once in a while, very weird huh?
Hey what the heck maybe we are reincarnated and life is an endless cycle of new lives?  Puts a whole new twist on things. 
I do not know but wanted to plug my morning .02 in..
Ricki

[Brianna]

No, I don't agree.

I value critical thought and the ability to make my own decisions more than say... Christian hocus pocus. Besides, their idea of heaven is my own personal hell - people condeming, judging, denying rights and instituting social control.

Bri

[Cindi Jones]

"The kingdom of heaven is among us."  I borrowed one of my dad's DVDs recently.  He didn't like it because he said he couldn't follow it.  It is called "The Kingdome of Heaven" and was released two or three years ago.  I encourage everyone to watch it.  Yes, even you Bri.  I guarantee you that if you catch the real kingdom of heaven in that film, your life will be enriched.

I know that when I die, my ashes will be scattered below a favorite oak tree.  My ashes will help enrich the soil to help feed that tree which is a home for birds, lichens, various creepy crawly things, and even mistletoe. The cycle of life will continue. 

I am hopeful that some of my words will live on.  For as long as I'm remembered, I'll still be alive in someone's heart.  This is why I write.

If there is indeed life after death, I will embrace it fully.  But I refuse to live my life in the here and now giving up what this world has to offer by the promise that my afterlife shall be better.  I believe in making life here better, right now, for everyone. 

If life is a test, I will likely fail. I was never good at tests.  I can't believe a loving parent would expect a child to embrace a set of beliefs to follow and then damn that child because he/she could not divine the correct path left by 2000 year old bread crumbs. What would you do with your child who has "strayed"?  You would love your child no matter what. Right? Is our capability to love greater than what God would have?  I don't think so.

There ya go.

Chin up and all that.

Cindi

[Witch of Sadness]

Hi Folks,

I think we should talk about this, what the "kingdom in heaven" really means.
Every religion has their own ideas what has to be understood by it. Christians understand something else by it as Muslims or Jews.
I understand the remark that way as if the release is in us!
And I see this also so!
We have everything into us to be found into ourselves.
The education and the socialization which prevents us to realize everything only is there.
Does Hitler come into the heaven? I don't hope so if there is a heaven! Seeing him at the same place like his innumerable victims I would find it unjust.

Another private question:

How do I get pictures in the forum from my PC?

WoS

[tinkerbell]

How do I get pictures in the forum from my PC?

WoS

Hello WOS, how are you?  Answer to your question.

If you need help with anything else, you can go here.

Take care!

tinkerbell

[VeryGnawty]

I think we are in the kingdom of heaven right now.  This world, and all others, are all heavens.  We are creators in this world.

You think you aren't a Christ in the making?  That you aren't worthy of the power of God?  Jesus said that the faithful will cast out devils.  That they will speak new tongues.  That the sick will be made whole.  That ye shall remove mountains and cast them into the sea.  That ye shall perform miracles greater than these.

I hope to meet Hitler one day, in this heaven or in another.  For he is also a Christ in the making.

[tinkerbell]

I think we are in the kingdom of heaven right now.  This world, and all others, are all heavens.  We are creators in this world.

I hope to meet Hitler one day, in this heaven or in another.  For he is also a Christ in the making.

A very LaVeyan philosophy...hmmmm


tinkerbell

[Brianna]

I hope to meet Hitler one day, in this heaven or in another.  For he is also a Christ in the making.

Under this logic, your point seems to be although Hitler was widely thought to be evil - you dream one day he will emulate Christ. I am curious - do you dream that one day Jews will emulate Christ in heaven too?

I mean, Jews might not want to emulate Christ. We might want to worship what our own belief system allows, in my opinion.

Bri

[jamesBrine]

hello!
  VeryGnawty I'm not quite sure what you mean when you are quoting Jesus. Could you please explain how his words go with your statement that we are all creators.

  Thanks
         Jamesbrine

[nancyj]

I think we are in the kingdom of heaven right now.  This world, and all others, are all heavens.  We are creators in this world.

I hope to meet Hitler one day, in this heaven or in another.  For he is also a Christ in the making.

A very LaVeyan philosophy...hmmmm

"Did it ever occur to you," Chien said, "That good and evil are names for the same thing? That God could be both good and evil at the same time?"
(Philip K Dick, Faith of Our Fathers in Dangerous Visions, 1967)

Coins have two sides. Usually.
Posted on: November 20, 2006, 05:08:16 PM

I hope to meet Hitler one day, in this heaven or in another.  For he is also a Christ in the making.

Under this logic, your point seems to be although Hitler was widely thought to be evil - you dream one day he will emulate Christ. I am curious - do you dream that one day Jews will emulate Christ in heaven too?

I mean, Jews might not want to emulate Christ. We might want to worship what our own belief system allows, in my opinion.

Bri

Please elucidate how that 'belief system' differs from the teachings of Christ; else this remark just smacks of the sort of sectarianism that has the world in its current (less-than-heavenly, at times) state.

Thanking you in advance,
nance
Posted on: November 20, 2006, 05:12:20 PMIF the 'kingdom of heaven' does not reside within the individual (In most 'belief systems' of a religious or even spiritual bent, 'man' was 'created' by 'God', yes.no?) then where does it live?

In the sky, perhaps?
In Disneyland?
Under the Xmas tree, IF WE ARE REALLY GOOD ALL YEAR?

If a person cannot imagine that heaven's 'kingdom' is within, my idea is that that person has NO business talking about it's existence anywhere, you know, mystically or mythically.


Posted on: November 20, 2006, 05:18:03 PM

I think we are in the kingdom of heaven right now.  This world, and all others, are all heavens.  We are creators in this world.

You think you aren't a Christ in the making?  That you aren't worthy of the power of God?  Jesus said that the faithful will cast out devils.  That they will speak new tongues.  That the sick will be made whole.  That ye shall remove mountains and cast them into the sea.  That ye shall perform miracles greater than these.

All I can add to these inspired thoughts is: potentially heaven/hell; and that the answer to Mr Brine's question is in what he is questioning, & needs only to be read.
IE: "that ye shall perform miracles..." indicates 'creation', on the face of it.
Hello?

[Tiffany Elise]

  From what I read the Bible says God is light and in him no darkness at all. He creates both good and evil and allows both good and evil but from what I read he is not evil. Every reference to God is light, life, love, perfection, good and such. The references to satan tend to go along the lines of liar, darkness, devil, serpent, evil and such. As for man being a Christ in the making; more tend to be an antichrist in the making. Since the Bible says that Christ is the hand of God, the arm of God, the beginning of the creation of God, the wisdom of God and the salvation of God to man it is pretty safe to believe that Christ created man for God just as he saves man for God. Since light isn't to dwell with darkness, the table of the Lord with the table of devils, belief with unbelief, and since the Bible says there was no place found for dogs, sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, idolaters and loveth or maketh a lie I personally find it hard to believe that Hitler would be in heaven. While it's not in my place to judge him that's my opinion from what the word of God says. The Bible does say to repent and believe. I just don't see anything written about him doing that.
  But that's just my opinion.

  Tiff

[Suzy]

Well I don't believe that Jesus' parables can be rationally used to justify Hitler's entrance into heaven.  When taken as a whole, they do teach several things.  First, the Kingdom is usually the unexpected.  The poor are ahead of the rich, the broken ones are the ones who recieve healing.  It is upside down, or perhaps better said, rightside up.  Secondly, the Kingdom is just.  Hatred, violence, abuse, hypocrisy, etc. will not be part of it.  Third, the Kindgom is about God's initiative towards us, not about our own personal worthiness.  Finally, the Kingdom is here now, but not quite yet.  While we await the fullness of the Kingdom, we can already get a taste of it whenever and wherever people truly love God and one another.  So it's not a total wait-for-pie-in-the-sky thing.  It is a counter-cultural guide and a hope for living today.

As for reincarnation, no thanks.  I'm afraid with the mistakes I make daily, I'd spend a lot more time going backwards than forwards.  I'd like to believe that there is something better than this broken, hurting world, because parts of it hold little attraction for me.

  Kristi

[Julie Marie]

I believe we all go to heaven.  People who are seen as bad or evil or hateful will go there too.  So what's the motivation to be good here?  I have chosen to believe that when we die we will live, as if it's actually happening to us, all the pain and suffering we have caused as well all the happiness and joy we have been part of.  Every person we've touched and every person who has been affected by what we do to those we've touched and on and on, we will experience the effect we had on each and every one of them.  We will live the pain and the joy, the hurt and the happiness, everything.  We will live it all, in the first person.

Then we go to heaven and and analyze our life and learn.  This is what I choose to believe.  And it helps me to be a better person.

Julie

[nancyj]

I think we are in the kingdom of heaven right now.  This world, and all others, are all heavens.  We are creators in this world.

I hope to meet Hitler one day, in this heaven or in another.  For he is also a Christ in the making.

A very LaVeyan philosophy...hmmmm

"Did it ever occur to you," Chien said, "That good and evil are names for the same thing? That God could be both good and evil at the same time?"
(Philip K Dick, Faith of Our Fathers in Dangerous Visions, 1967)

I believe in the following passage from the Bible:

God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all. 1 John 1:5

.

People can believe whatever they want and write books on whatever issue they please; however, don't expect me to believe that same kind of nonsense that Chien wrote, for it will never happen.

guess 'god' has never screwed you over.
RIGHT. so you are the sex you wanna be, always were, right from the start.
ohhhhhhhk.

Coins have two sides

Yes, they do, don't they?  But my views are that God is not a coin and shame on me if I ever compare God with a mere coin.

that's known as a simile

It is like: there are two sides to any argument.
now: God might be considered in terms of an argument.

not 'argument', like a disagreement, such as we are engaged in here; in terms of a concept.
'nuff said, not gonna hit my head against a wall, not this go 'round.

I ne'er read that book y'all are talking about anyhow.
I don't 'believe'.
There are, by the way, a LOT of contradictions in it, by the quotes I have seen displayed herein and elsewhere, which tends to indicate more than one side to 'the coin'. Capisce?

(btw: how you doin' Robin? Homie.  )

[tinkerbell]

I was getting ready to respond to your post Nancy >, and although I think that God has nothing to do with my being transsexual, I also know I will never be able to convince you otherwise.  So, as I was preparing to respond to your post about the simile of the coin and the brick wall.....OMG....a miracle happened.....and again.....God exists, God is good, although I know you will disagree....I am just soooo happy right now.....happy to be able to read what you really meant.....

.....After all....I always thought we were already in hell ....now I realize that what you said is true....this is heaven, heaven indeed.....Nuff said...

....I have always said that this world is full of surprises....yesterday I had a revelation, and today I had another one....thank you Nancy and thank you, God!


tinkerbell, next to the the land of the Oak......

[nancyj]

beautiful Tink
thank you for being you.
hey I wrote a pome bout this thing here, for you

rather than try and construct, you know a rational argument
cause what we're talking about ain't zackly rational
(miracles and all that sorta jazz)

it's over there...

see you soon
n/jc

ps: my thought is that 'God' is all that does exist
We are a dream of God's...
We are dreaming, as well...
ad infinitum..
like that

like a camera pointed at a mirror